Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

[Yxklyx]

This movie did not live and breathe.

[Grouchy]

Honestly, I think it's a lot simpler; I don't think JJ Abrams is a good storyteller. He mistakes citation for meaning and energy for engagement, which makes him uniquely unqualified for a trilogy of stories that needs meaning, setup/payoff, meat and potatoes development. But because he's good enough at plowing through his films with a baseline level of competence, showmanship, and charismatic casting, it's easy to mistake his films for good stories. Basically, he makes cakes composed entirely of frosting, and by the time you realize there's no actual cake, he's onto the next thing, and why are you complaining, don't you like frosting?

[Problem is Abrams' movies make reliable bank, and he's a protege of Spielberg, which means Kennedy basically has to trust him (and, hell, probably does). All indicators point to him being a good storyteller, except for the underlying problem: he's not.]

I whole-heartedly agree with this.

[Ezee E]

The OT is one. It had an overarching authorial voice in Lucas, but they didn't even know they were making a trilogy until they wanted to wrap things up after Empire. Sure, Lucas has claimed there was always a long-term plan, but he's offered plenty of self-contradictory claims about that over the years, to the point that I basically don't believe a lick of it. (I'm sure he had ideas and concepts but only for further stories, not for a planned-out trilogy. "Lava planet?" he says to himself in 1983, "Could that be a thing?")

I guess it wasn't a planned trilogy all thing said still, basically just sequels.

Agreed on JJ not being the best of storytellers either.

[Dukefrukem]

Neither was Back to the Future or Matrix trilogies.

But when you have flags planted every 2 years for for your "episodes VII, VIII and IX"... you probably should have some kind of rough outline.

[Ezee E]

Neither was Back to the Future or Matrix trilogies.

But when you have flags planted every 2 years for for your "episodes VII, VIII and IX"... you probably should have some kind of rough outline.

Exactly. And for both of those trilogies, I believe 2 and 3 were planned accordingly.

[Skitch]

Exactly. And for both of those trilogies, I believe 2 and 3 were planned accordingly.

And shot back to back, oddly enough.

[Morris Schæffer]

1. The Empire Strikes Back (same)
2. Star Wars (same)
3. Return of the Jedi (same)
4. The Last Jedi (5)
5. Revenge of the Sith (4)
6. Rogue One (7)
7. The Force Awakens (6)
8. Attack of the Clones (10)
9. The Phantom Menace (8)
10. The Rise of Skywalker (9)
11. Solo (11)

mine (in red).

[Skitch]

I have finally seen this movie.

The last time I watched a movie that felt as "studio meddled edited" as this movie it was called Justice League.

[Gizmo]

She hits the nail on the head with a lot of my thoughts, and since I'm not articulate enough to type them out, here you go:

[Dukefrukem]

I liked her video.

Number 7 is hilarous and I wrote the same thing in the Mandalorian thread. Boy does Lucasfilm love to jackoff to spaceships landing and taking off.

[Dukefrukem]

Number 9 makes so much sense too. The Kerri Russel planet should have been completely cut out of the movie. The only reason that whole planet sequence was in the movie to begin with is so J.J. can give acting roles to his friends.

Ugh. So infuriating.

[Dukefrukem]

OMG that would have been an excellent plot point. At 49:30- what if Rey, when reaching out to teh ship taking off and her parents leaving when she was a kid... what if she destroyed the ship and killed her own parents? That would be more doubt about her dark/light conflict.

[Morris Schæffer]

Number 9 makes so much sense too. The Kerri Russel planet should have been completely cut out of the movie. The only reason that whole planet sequence was in the movie to begin with is so J.J. can give acting roles to his friends.

Ugh. So infuriating.

Could it also be that the Disney mind is such that they're already looking ahead for opportunities? For expanding the universe I mean? Now they've got a chance to do a Poe/Keri movie. I'm probably reaching.

Whatever, fuck this movie.

[TGM]

Oscar Isaac has pretty much already said he's done, so I wouldn't hold my breath on a Poe spin-off anytime soon.

[Dukefrukem]

Could it also be that the Disney mind is such that they're already looking ahead for opportunities? For expanding the universe I mean? Now they've got a chance to do a Poe/Keri movie. I'm probably reaching.

Whatever, fuck this movie.

I'm harnessing my inner trans here when I say this directed towards the creative team... Focus on the movie in front of you.. not the NEXT movie.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, from what Isaac and Boyega have said in interviews, it would surprise me if Disney invited them back to anything Star Wars.

[Pop Trash]

I don't even like this movie much, but I feel weird that I don't hate it? I mean, yeah sure, it falls apart if you think about it for more than five seconds, and it recons most of The Last Jedi and (even worse) the end of Return of the Jedi in irritating ways, buuut it still looks good and is entertaining on a scene-to-scene basis. There's some moments that work on a pure visceral "wow that was cool" dopamine hitting level like[

Show Spoiler

Emperor getting melted Nazis in Raiders of the Lost Ark style

] and the dope as hell looking lightsaber duel on a ship in the rain with waves crashing all over.

[Skitch]

I don't think this movie retcons Last Jedi at all. I felt it doubled down on the importance of everything that happened in TLJ.

[Pop Trash]

I don't think this movie retcons Last Jedi at all. I felt it doubled down on the importance of everything that happened in TLJ.

[

Show Spoiler

One of the first shots of Rey is her reading the ancient Jedi texts that were supposedly burnt up last episode by Ghost Yoda and Luke because "page turners they were not." Plus Ghost Luke being all "that was old me, this is new me!" Even things that aren't literally retcon'd feel like figurative retcons by JJ. "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" becomes "hey remember that dude that everyone thought was killed at the end of ROTJ ... well haha just kidding he's still alive somehow." JJ fills the mystery boxes he began in TFA that Rian Johnson basically said "yo ... that shit doesn't matter" and JJ goes "hey piss off Rian, REY IS IN THE PALPATINE BLOODLINE BITCH!"

]

[Skitch]

[

Show Spoiler

One of the first shots of Rey is her reading the ancient Jedi texts that were supposedly burnt up last episode by Ghost Yoda and Luke because "page turners they were not." Plus Ghost Luke being all "that was old me, this is new me!" Even things that aren't literally retcon'd feel like figurative retcons by JJ. "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" becomes "hey remember that dude that everyone thought was killed at the end of ROTJ ... well haha just kidding he's still alive somehow." JJ fills the mystery boxes he began in TFA that Rian Johnson basically said "yo ... that shit doesn't matter" and JJ goes "hey piss off Rian, REY IS IN THE PALPATINE BLOODLINE BITCH!"

]

[

Show Spoiler

I believe that was Luke's journal, not the Jedi texts. I could be wrong.

]

Oh it totally retcons Return of the Jedi. And I was geared up to be pissy about TLJ because I love that film...I didn't feel like it attacked it at all.

Also, I'm not defending RoS. I have many questions. MANY. But I truly feel/felt like there was studio interference in the edit. Especially the first half.

Hell, for a film that is supposed to wrap up three trilogies, it sure brings up a lot of questions it doesn't answer.

[

Show Spoiler

1. how why was palpatine making snokes
2. how did palpatine die and come back
3. who were all the robed people on planet lightning
4. where did all the Empire people come from to man the star destroyers (literally thousands of people)
5. what did finn want to say to rey
6. the awkward as fuck interaction between lando and (maybe) daughter?
7. with all the ways for leia to go, the best...PEAK...idea you go for is straining herself for a mild distraction that kills her son but doesnt?
8. no commitment from rey to either of her triangle love interests. fine. just weird.

]

[Dead & Messed Up]

[

Show Spoiler

One of the first shots of Rey is her reading the ancient Jedi texts that were supposedly burnt up last episode by Ghost Yoda and Luke because "page turners they were not." Plus Ghost Luke being all "that was old me, this is new me!" Even things that aren't literally retcon'd feel like figurative retcons by JJ. "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" becomes "hey remember that dude that everyone thought was killed at the end of ROTJ ... well haha just kidding he's still alive somehow." JJ fills the mystery boxes he began in TFA that Rian Johnson basically said "yo ... that shit doesn't matter" and JJ goes "hey piss off Rian, REY IS IN THE PALPATINE BLOODLINE BITCH!"

]

Rey saved the books at the end of The Last Jedi. You see Finn open a cupboard with them in it as he searches for a blanket for Rose in the final sequence. That's why Yoda very carefully says, "That tree contains nothing which the girl Rey does not already possess." (My read is that Yoda burns down the tree because Luke is in so much grief for his mistakes that he's accidentally fetishized the past in the process. The tree and the books are like a grave for his former hopes and ambitions. Yoda burning the tree gives him a kick in the ass without actually destroying history; the lightning strike destroys orthodoxy and stagnation, not knowledge.)

I take the theme from The Last Jedi as a very Lion King "learn from the past." Kylo Ren advocates for destroying the past, but doing so doesn't bring him peace. Meanwhile, it's Luke who owns up to his past mistakes and Rey who owns up to her own past (her parents) who are freed in the process. "Let the past die" is a great trailer line and a good villain line, but I don't think it's intended to be the theme.

Definitely agreed with you that Palpatine is a weird-ass retcon that doesn't fall in line with the storytelling in Return of the Jedi and The Last Jedi. It's very lazy.

[Dead & Messed Up]

IIRC, in TROS, Rey's using the texts, not a journal (or that the journal was one of the texts). I think one of the telling differences between Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams is that, for Johnson, the books have symbolic ambition, while, for Abrams, they're a device that tells you where plot doodads are.

[Skitch]

Well JJ is perfect to direct the next Indy film. Find the thing that leads to the exposition that leads to the trinket that will exposition explain exposition explain lead to the thing of wonder.

[Ezee E]

Please don't tell me that Harrison is going to do Indiana again.

[DavidSeven]

Shrug.

I liked it well enough. Not as relevatory from a cinematic aspect as The Force Awakens but certainly watchable and a competent closure of storylines. Maybe I’m grading on a curve, because I couldn’t stand The Last Jedi, but I thought this mostly worked and avoided getting too hokey or overlong in its wrap up. I’m not invested at all in the mythology, so maybe that helps as well. Rey and Kylo are the only compelling characters in this latest run of movies, so I was glad the stuff with ancillary characters was less of a focus. Not enough Rose? Who cares? That Keri Russell bot was way cooler.