The Irishman (Some old guy)

[Skitch]

The movie touches on other decades, but the bulk of the action takes place from about 1955 (shortly before Kennedy's election) to 1975 (Hoffa's disappearance).

The occasional captions stuck to one mobster or another said a lot of these guys died in the late 70s or early 80s, and by then the movie's story is definitely over. The rest of it, with funeral scenes or Frank in the nursing home, plays more like an epilogue.

My point was more that the CGI prohibits the characters from aging in normal ways. There's a big difference from somebody at 40 and somebody at 60 and you don't really see that on screen.

I mean, shit, look at any long running TV show in recent memory. Those might last 10 years and the actors look noticeably different from the start of the run to the end of it.

But in "The Irishman," everybody's appearance is oddly static -- plastic heads stuck on old man bodies.

I can't outright disagree with anything here. As I said before, I will have to see how I feel on repeat viewings.

[Skitch]

There's your problem - I hate Twitter with a passion and have never used it.

I don't know if its my problem...people on the internet talk about things. Twitter doesn't really bother me, I ignore most of the silliness and go about my day. But some of the people I follow who are in the industry have said those things.

[Ezee E]

You really see this if you rewatch it. Yet another reason why Schoonmaker's editing is *chef's kiss*. It starts with the beatdown at the corner store which Scorsese frames in a wide, single take shot w/o any coverage, *except* for one split second on his daughter's face. The rest of the film follows this pattern with slight, subtle cutaways to his daughter's face at certain moments. Always watching. Always judging. It's telling also that his daughter really likes Jimmy Hoffa because he seems to be helping people in an egalitarian, collectivist way (she's too young and naive to understand that he is corrupt as well). She does not like anyone else her father is connected too and eventually cuts off all ties to her father.

Precisely. The exchange of a authentic thanks for the ice cream sundae vs forced thanks for the ice skates, and later none at all for the $100

[Grouchy]

Has anyone made a meme yet with "don't hassle the Hoffa"? I'd like to see that.

[Ezee E]

Also, yes, the scene at the market was clearly a problem in having a 80-year old man move like he's in his 40's. Unlike most Scorsese violence, this one didn't affect me like it really should have.

Oddly, as I'm watching a second time, the CGI hasn't been a problem for me at all like it was for others.

[Dukefrukem]

Also, yes, the scene at the market was clearly a problem in having a 80-year old man move like he's in his 40's. Unlike most Scorsese violence, this one didn't affect me like it really should have.

Oddly, as I'm watching a second time, the CGI hasn't been a problem for me at all like it was for others.

I hated that scene without the CGI. What was the initial point of him bringing his daughter down there other than to service the script for the finale payoff with Paquin? Frank was already way too distant from his daughter for it to matter to him to bring her along (this is backed up when he attempts to reconcile)... and yet that street side beat down is the only real intimate scene with his daughter. The rest of the scenes are between his daughter and Pesci, with Frank as the third wheel.

[Grouchy]

I hated that scene without the CGI. What was the initial point of him bringing his daughter down there other than to service the script for the finale payoff with Paquin? Frank was already way too distant from his daughter for it to matter to him to bring her along (this is backed up when he attempts to reconcile)... and yet that street side beat down is the only real intimate scene with his daughter. The rest of the scenes are between his daughter and Pesci, with Frank as the third wheel.

Huh, no, dude, come on. Frank is clearly not a guy in touch with his emotions. He obviously cares a lot about his daughters, he just doesn't know how to relate to a child, in contrast with Hoffa who is an expert at getting all sorts of people to care for him. My guess is that he simply brought the kid along so she could point out the aggressor. The thought of her becoming traumatized didn't enter his head at all.

[Grouchy]

Also, this is probably the best featurette about The Irishman so far, and I'm watching them all. What he says about his meeting with Frank Serpico is gold.

[Ezee E]

I hated that scene without the CGI. What was the initial point of him bringing his daughter down there other than to service the script for the finale payoff with Paquin? Frank was already way too distant from his daughter for it to matter to him to bring her along (this is backed up when he attempts to reconcile)... and yet that street side beat down is the only real intimate scene with his daughter. The rest of the scenes are between his daughter and Pesci, with Frank as the third wheel.

And Hoffa gets to dance with her, but Frank doesn't.

It's pretty much the key scene to their relationship. Maybe the relationship could exist without it, but Frank knows that's where the disconnect started.

[Pop Trash]

I didn't get the court scene when he is "shot" (or whatever was going on there)? The guy shot him with a bb gun for some reason? Or was it a real gun that misfired? Why? Who was that guy? I take it that was based on a real life incident.

I also didn't get who was the guy that was shot in super slo mo in a parade by the Black assassin. He seemed important since Scorsese felt the need to have a dragged out slo motion scene of his death.

[Pop Trash]

Has anyone made a meme yet with "don't hassle the Hoffa"? I'd like to see that.

Frank having a "WHERE'S JIMMY HOFFA? DIAL 1-800 ... " bumper sticker on his car is a nice touch. Made me lulz.

[Ezee E]

I didn't get the court scene when he is "shot" (or whatever was going on there)? The guy shot him with a bb gun for some reason? Or was it a real gun that misfired? Why? Who was that guy? I take it that was based on a real life incident.

I also didn't get who was the guy that was shot in super slo mo in a parade by the Black assassin. He seemed important since Scorsese felt the need to have a dragged out slo motion scene of his death.

I'm about to hit this portion in my second rewatch, but I didn't get it either. There's a lot of Hoffa History that I'm simply not privy to, and this is part of it, and maybe the draggiest part of the movie.

I did gather that the gun simply jammed though.

[Idioteque Stalker]

My guess is that he simply brought the kid along so she could point out the aggressor. The thought of her becoming traumatized didn't enter his head at all.

I felt he intended it to be empowering for her to watch. But of course he takes it too far.

[Dukefrukem]

I didn't get the court scene when he is "shot" (or whatever was going on there)? The guy shot him with a bb gun for some reason? Or was it a real gun that misfired? Why? Who was that guy? I take it that was based on a real life incident.

I also didn't get who was the guy that was shot in super slo mo in a parade by the Black assassin. He seemed important since Scorsese felt the need to have a dragged out slo motion scene of his death.

Something that added nothing and could have been completely cut from the film. I thought maybe it would come back to how he taught his son not to run from a gun... (maybe in a struggle with Frank?) but it didn't.

[Ezee E]

I felt he intended it to be empowering for her to watch. But of course he takes it too far.

Exactly what the intention was.

You look at 90% of other gangster movies, and the child would feel protected and probably even admire her father for what happened. Different result.

[Grouchy]

Frank having a "WHERE'S JIMMY HOFFA? DIAL 1-800 ... " bumper sticker on his car is a nice touch. Made me lulz.

Hahah yeah that was priceless.

I think Scorsese felt obliged to show those two assassination attempts because they were a big part of the real story and probably a huge deal at the time, coming out of the JFK assassination. I'm not even a US person so my knowledge of Hoffa's history is of course limited, but the screenplay itself mentions how the facts about his life are at best only casually known by young people even during Sheeran's lifetime. In any case, I feel The Irishman is a lot more self-explanatory than Once Upon a Time in Hollywood which only works if you know the facts of the Tate-LaBianca case.

[transmogrifier]

Ya know. Scorsese has a lot of balls to call out other genre films, when his biggest movies are all the same..

Scorsese this decade: Shutter Island, Hugo, The Wolf of Wall Street, Silence, The Irishman. Yes, all the same. Not like the bountiful diverse feast of Marvel.

[Ezee E]

Scorsese's biggest three have to be considered Goodfellas, Taxi Driver, and Raging Bull right?

If it's by gross: Wolf of Wall Street, Shutter Island, and The Departed

[Dukefrukem]

Scorsese this decade: Shutter Island, Hugo, The Wolf of Wall Street, Silence, The Irishman. Yes, all the same. Not like the bountiful diverse feast of Marvel.

Still haven't gotten through Silence yet, and Hugo is awful...Wolf of Wall Street is Goodfellas set in the 90s...and Shutter Island was last decade. I'm totally nitpicking here, but you already knew what I meant. That's kind why I said his "biggest" movies.

Scorsese's biggest three have to be considered Goodfellas, Taxi Driver, and Raging Bull right?

If it's by gross: Wolf of Wall Street, Shutter Island, and The Departed

I would have said Goodfellas, Casino, Departed.

[transmogrifier]

Hell, look at Scorsese in the 80s:
Raging Bull, The King of Comedy, After Hours, The Color of Money, The Last Temptation of Christ. Those are five pretty different fucking movies.
90s: GoodFellas, Cape Fear, The Age of Innocence, Casino, Kundun, Bringing Out the Dead. Yes, Casino and Goodfellas share a number of similarities, but look at the films that came before and after it!

I honestly not sure how Duke can argue with a straight face that all Scorsese films are the same, even his "big" ones, whatever that means. Maybe he just thinks if he says it often enough, it will magically become true

[Dukefrukem]

Hell, look at Scorsese in the 80s:
Raging Bull, The King of Comedy, After Hours, The Color of Money, The Last Temptation of Christ. Those are five pretty different fucking movies.
90s: GoodFellas, Cape Fear, The Age of Innocence, Casino, Kundun, Bringing Out the Dead. Yes, Casino and Goodfellas share a number of similarities, but look at the films that came before and after it!

I honestly not sure how Duke can argue with a straight face that all Scorsese films are the same, even his "big" ones, whatever that means. Maybe he just thinks if he says it often enough, it will magically become true

No I'm just being overly cynical.

[transmogrifier]

No I'm just being overly cynical.

Fair enough

[Grouchy]

My lifelong dream is meeting Scorsese, and if I actually did, I think I could do nothing but cry like a baby.

[Dukefrukem]

My lifelong dream is meeting Scorsese, and if I actually did, I think I could do nothing but cry like a baby.

Careful. You're not allowed to admit you're a fan of anything otherwise you'll be a biased snowflake and your option struck from the record.

[Pop Trash]

Careful. You're not allowed to admit you're a fan of anything otherwise you'll be a biased snowflake and your option struck from the record.

I wasn't only directing my complaint to you, but the overall whinefest from Marvel fanboys that their billion dollar box office, beloved imdb top 100 film, 4.0 on letterboxd, might DARE be "meh, it's not my thing" by an influential director.

If it makes you feel any better I don't think Endgame and The Irishman are entirely dissimilar: massively expensive budgets, lots of CGI, a 3 hour (or more) runtime that is never boring and feels earned, a culmination of a genre, something of a memory piece hopscotching around with linear time, closure on an era.