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Thread: Doctor Sleep (Flanagan)

  1. #1
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Doctor Sleep (Flanagan)

    King hates Kubrick Shining because plot changes.

    King loves Flanagan Doctor Sleep ignores plot changes.

  2. #2
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Gonna have to roll around this third act awhile
    Quite a bit different from the book.

    Also, King and his ire at Kubricks adaptation can straight fuck off at this point. If hes gonna slob all over this film than have a Coke and a smile when it comes to Kubricks film, ya damn hypocrite.

  3. #3
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    Did you Coke (out) like King when typing these too? And I’m someone who thinks King’s criticism of Kubrick’s film a bit silly (tho understandable) but both of these posts kinda grossly simplifies the issue he has with it (I’m on the phone so: a very personal book is adapted by changing a very personal aspect the most, etc. etc.)
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  4. #4
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    It would be understandable if his opinion was consistent. It is not. I would say the third act of Doctor Sleep was as radically changed as The Shining if not more...as far as book to film translations go.

  5. #5
    Moderator TGM's Avatar
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    I really liked this, though it’s a very strange movie. Like, it feels like two entirely different movies, where the bulk of it very much feels like we’re watching an especially well made YA movie, and then suddenly, oh shit, it’s the fucking Shining. And yet despite it feeling so radically different at times, it still really works for me? I dunno, but I think a lesser director would’ve certainly stumbled with that, but Flanagan somehow makes it work.

    It certainly helps that the new stuff is so well executed. Again, there’s a lot of odd choices, such as how it’s actually the villains who find themselves often in the horror situations, which as a result, there’s very little tension, and we’re left rooting for them to get it. And yeah, I can’t emphasize just how much this sorta thing happens in this movie, but again, it somehow still works anyways? Even though it really probably shouldn’t?

    The mind aspect stuff is a big highlight throughout the movie, and Jacob Tremblay’s scenes are especially effective. Also loved the beating heartbeat of a score, definitely the best use of music in a Flanagan flick so far.

    And the bar scene, despite being one of the simplest scenes in the whole movie, is honest to god some of the most gripping cinema I’ve seen all year.

    Again, this movie feels like it SHOULD be a total mess, but that’s just a testament to just how damn good a director Mike Flanagan actually is that me manages to make it work all the same, cause this movie left me feeling like only two other movies this year so far (Once Upon A Time In Hollywood and Joker), where watching this movie just felt like SUCH a breath of fresh air in the modern landscape of Hollywood.

  6. #6
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    Also loved the beating heartbeat of a score, definitely the best use of music in a Flanagan flick so far.
    This was one of my biggest negatives. It was way, WAY, overused. There were times where the tension was destroyed because of that damn heartbeat. It was almost headache inducing, especially in scenes where silence would've been so much more effective.

  7. #7
    Moderator TGM's Avatar
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    I never got that feeling personally. What scenes were you thinking would work better without it?

  8. #8
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    When they approach the Overlook and hes walking it. Silence wouldve been perfect, instead of the thumping.

  9. #9
    Moderator TGM's Avatar
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    Alright, I can see that.

  10. #10
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Going to see this next week whilst working in Utah.

    Pierrot Le Fou - *** 1/2
    Black Bear - ***
    Minari - *** 1/2


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  11. #11
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    This movie has elements of disaster and elements of masterpiece to the tune that I can't really think of a straight-forward movie that's done this before.

    On one hand, I love the world this is set in, with elements of vampires, the "Shining", and ghosts.
    On the other hand, some of the characters are so miscast, and the main girl is so settled into her Shining that it seems like she's had it for eons.

    On one hand, the use of the Overlook hotel immediately brings back dread and I never quite knew which direction the movie would take.
    But then on the other hand, some of those routes that it did take were straight up stupid.

    On one hand, I loved the recovering addict that was Danny Torrance, but the pain had never gone away. I also really liked Rebecca Ferguson's Rose in the Hat character. Would certainly be interested in knowing more of that character.
    On the other hand, the film [
    ]

    [
    ]

    In the end, I think I love this "world" that's created enough that I'm giving the movie a pass, but I can certainly understand someone that would hate it too.

    Pierrot Le Fou - *** 1/2
    Black Bear - ***
    Minari - *** 1/2


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  12. #12
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    This should have irritated me more than it does. It has one of those structures similar to Titanic or OUATIH where you get sucked into one story then in the last act it's like "oh shit, that's right, THIS happens." In those other films it's the iceberg and ship sinking and Manson murders, respectively. In Doctor Sleep, it's the return to the Overlook and -consequently- the shift of the film into a full blown sequel to Kubrick's The Shining. I guess I can see why some people wouldn't like this, but I found the postmodern blurring of King, Kubrick, and Flanagan's own vision to be fascinating.

    People have brought up 2010 in its relation to Kubrick's 2001, and I can see that, but I also thought of the way The Last Jedi, BR 2049, and even the underrated Psycho II use sequels to iconic films as collective memory pieces, reflecting on the events from decades away and how they shaped the characters.
    Last edited by Pop Trash; 11-16-2019 at 05:48 AM.
    Ratings on a 1-10 scale for your pleasure:

    The Evil Dead - 9
    Borat Subsequent Moviefilm - 5
    Borat - 7
    Weekend at Bernie's - 6
    The Departed - 8
    Poltergeist III - 5
    The Hand that Rocks the Cradle - 7
    The Devil All the Time - 6
    Other Music - 10
    Feels Good Man - 8

  13. #13
    Scott of the Antarctic Milky Joe's Avatar
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    This was fuuuuucking terrible.
    ‎The severed arm perfectly acquitted itself, because of the simplicity of its wishes and its total lack of doubt.

  14. #14
    Moderator Dead & Messed Up's Avatar
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    I liked this one. It's shockingly not-bad and even often quite good, esp. whenever Rose the Hat is onscreen. The astral projection scene is wonderful. The Overlook stuff at the end isn't quite as good, although it's fun to see those places and characters again. Flanagan's just good. Classical craftsmanship, every shot considered, the characters given room to breathe before the fantasy elements take over.

  15. #15
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    I wish I liked this film more but I don't. I like that it builds a new world without paying slavish praise to the original movie, at least until the last third. I like many of its concepts which I assume come from King's novel which I haven't read. And I like that it feels like a '90s movie at times, concerned with its pacing and structure and not only with show-stopping visual effects which it also has.

    But at two and a half hours long, I feel it never becomes quite as tense and gripping as it should be. There are many scenes of pedestrian overexplaining of themes and musings about the special powers, but despite the fact that I liked this expanded mythology the most (and yeah, Rebecca Ferguson as Rose in the Hat is a highlight, she's so bloody sexy and mysterious) the only really compelling scenes are the ones set in the Overlook because the movie takes the time for the character development but doesn't do it properly. Also, the villains are strangely overpowered by the good guys which is a trend I'm beginning to notice in cinema for some reason - I got the same feeling from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and Us.

  16. #16
    Supporting Actor Zac Efron's Avatar
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    I agree with Grouchy for the most part, but I actually don't think the things at the Overlook are done well at all. Particularly, the movie looks like ass and the camera framing blows, even when trying to imitate Kubrick. I can't recommend this, but its for sure an interesting failure. The stuff with Jacob Tremblay will probably haunt me for a couple days- talk about horrifying, ugh.

  17. #17
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    [Director’s Cut]

    Similar to reading a pretty good late-period Stephen King -- slightly bloated but increasingly involving dark fantasy, with a sensitivity for characters and their past traumas. The latter aspect makes it yet another material that fits snugly into Flanagan’s filmography, and his meticulously old-school, gorgeous craftsmanship serves the intersection of King, Kubrick’s film, and Flanagan’s own interest quite well. He compensates for a lack of really heartfelt and/or gripping protagonist(s) like in his past works (not through McGregor’s fault, it’s just that his character writing is bound by past material and also by having to share the spotlight) through Rebecca Ferguson as a most fun, potentially iconic villain, by turn deliciously sinister and just mystically cool. 7/10
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  18. #18
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    If anything, I'd almost like a separate story on Ferguson's story, especially during the time when the original Shining took place. But guessing that will not be happening.

    Pierrot Le Fou - *** 1/2
    Black Bear - ***
    Minari - *** 1/2


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  19. #19
    Moderator Dead & Messed Up's Avatar
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    In the time since I decided this was "pretty good," that judgment has graduated to "excellent." I'm kind of in love with this film. Its deliberate pacing, how it approaches Dan's alcoholism, how it carefully cleaves away some of the silliest stuff in the novel (which I'm currently listening to on audiobook), how Kyliegh Curran as Abra stays on the right side of precocious. Rebecca Ferguson's Rose the Hat is slowly becoming one of my favorite horror villains. On the page, this character is just preposterous. In action, she's eerie, full of presence, sexy. Step on my neck, you psychic minx you, tell me about my shine. At his worst, Flanagan's careful composition can feel a bit airless, but he mostly finds a Darabontian (sic) groove and sticks to it, especially once the story slips out of prologue. I love how this film takes its time to introduce the characters, to give them individual lives and stories. It's easy to imagine some producer in Hollywood looking at this story and losing their mind over how long it takes for Danny and Abra to actually meet. But it's the right amount of time for us to believe them as people. The Green Mile similarly took its sweet-ass time playing all its cards, but that's how King at his novelistic best operates. Focusing on building the verisimilitude of Blue Jeans America lives and letting the fantasy-horror sneak in from odd angles.

  20. #20
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    I loved this

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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies

  21. #21
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    I loved this
    Theatrical or DC?

  22. #22
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    Theatrical or DC?
    Theatrical

    Just Watched
    Nothing Until Black Widow

    Currently Playing | Played
    Tom Claney's Breakpoint ★★★˝

    TV Show Currently Watching | Watched
    Mandalorian (Favreau) ★★˝
    Jack Ryan (S2) ★★˝

    Currently Reading | Read
    Howard Stern Comes Again (Stern)


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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies

  23. #23
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dead & Messed Up (view post)
    In the time since I decided this was "pretty good," that judgment has graduated to "excellent." I'm kind of in love with this film. Its deliberate pacing, how it approaches Dan's alcoholism, how it carefully cleaves away some of the silliest stuff in the novel (which I'm currently listening to on audiobook), how Kyliegh Curran as Abra stays on the right side of precocious. Rebecca Ferguson's Rose the Hat is slowly becoming one of my favorite horror villains. On the page, this character is just preposterous. In action, she's eerie, full of presence, sexy. Step on my neck, you psychic minx you, tell me about my shine. At his worst, Flanagan's careful composition can feel a bit airless, but he mostly finds a Darabontian (sic) groove and sticks to it, especially once the story slips out of prologue. I love how this film takes its time to introduce the characters, to give them individual lives and stories. It's easy to imagine some producer in Hollywood looking at this story and losing their mind over how long it takes for Danny and Abra to actually meet. But it's the right amount of time for us to believe them as people. The Green Mile similarly took its sweet-ass time playing all its cards, but that's how King at his novelistic best operates. Focusing on building the verisimilitude of Blue Jeans America lives and letting the fantasy-horror sneak in from odd angles.
    Well said. I haven't put my thoughts to screen yet, but this.

    Just Watched
    Nothing Until Black Widow

    Currently Playing | Played
    Tom Claney's Breakpoint ★★★˝

    TV Show Currently Watching | Watched
    Mandalorian (Favreau) ★★˝
    Jack Ryan (S2) ★★˝

    Currently Reading | Read
    Howard Stern Comes Again (Stern)


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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies

  24. #24
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Check out the DC. It's much better paced.

  25. #25
    Criterion time DFA1979's Avatar
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    Gonna need to see the DC. But just like Duke I also loved this. More thoughts to come on the blog!
    Horrorfest 2020

    And as he lay there
    Playing games with his pain
    He felt his choice of jobs
    Was such a mistake
    He could have been a doctor
    In a soft easy chair
    Instead he chose three stars
    A territorial affair

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