Didn't know this either....Quoting Irish (view post)
Didn't know this either....Quoting Irish (view post)
I think you're starting from a faulty premise, because the idea of gendered genres is all but meaningless now. Contemporary cinema's idea of a "chick flick" is to put Charlize Theron or Scarlett Johansson in a cat suit and have them dual wield pistols while kicking Eastern Europeans in the face.Quoting baby doll (view post)
More seriously, I think your angle ignores how "women's pictures" gradually migrated to television, first as soap operas and sitcoms, but more especially in the last decade, and that "contemporary reviewers" are fairly split along gender lines as well. (I could more easily name a half dozen female TV critics than their male counterparts in film criticism.)
Ie, the critical reception of "Scandal," "Girls," "Killing Eve," "Fleabag," "Unbelievable," and "Normal People" refutes most of your post.
I don't get this. I don't think Griffith is "tossed away" by anyone whose opinion matters, and if it is, well then that's a disturbing, wrong attitude. I think most film buffs see Gone with the Wind for exactly what it is - a milestone of cinema that betrays the racist views of its creators. That racism is 10.000 times subtler than the KKK sequence in Birth of a Nation and the film's language as a whole is more comfortable for modern audiences, so it remains a more popular watch. But what would "tossed away" even mean in the case of Birth of a Nation?Quoting Irish (view post)
I thought WB had not censored its digital releases of Looney Tunes but added text like they plan to do with Gone with the Wind.
What are some modern-day melodramas in American cinema? I think the genre is alive and well in India and Korea but I can't find anything in contemporary Hollywood that reminds me of the movies of Douglas Sirk and Max Ophuls. It is pretty much Almodóvar's genre of choice and his movies earn critical acclaim.Quoting baby doll (view post)
I think a lot of genres are usually considered minor and so don't get long running times, but I'm not sure if the split is strictly gendered. There are few three hour chick flicks like there are few three hour Adam Sandler comedies.
Funny People is 146 minutes--not three hours, I grant you, but pretty long. Moreover, although there are undoubtedly male-oriented genres considered minor, it's not the case that all male-oriented genres are considered minor by default.Quoting Grouchy (view post)
As for modern-day melodramas in the US, the first name that comes to mind is Tyler Perry (although I haven't actually seen any of his films). Of course, that's not counting male-dominated melodramas like The Deer Hunter, Brokeback Mountain, and Paul Haggis' Crash (to cite only the first three titles that come to mind).
Just because...
The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild
The last book I read was...
The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain
The (New) World
It's certainly true that the woman's film migrated to television, both in the United States and Japan, although even within television, there's still some distance in critical reputation between the shows you cite (of which I'm only familiar with the first seasons of Girls and Fleabag) and those of The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, and even Mad Men. In other words, although one could plausibly claim that there's more variety in television in terms of content (although I would hasten to add that stylistically television is even more boringly uniform than contemporary American cinema), it seems less plausible to assert that television reviewers (male and female) don't share the many of the same assumptions as film reviewers.Quoting Irish (view post)
Just because...
The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild
The last book I read was...
The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain
The (New) World
It's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to say what the concrete impact of Gone with the Wind has been in terms of upholding white supremacy. After all, white supremacy doesn't exist because Gone with the Wind is popular; Gone with the Wind is popular in part because of the unevenness of American society between North and South, which existed before the war and continues up till the present, hence the enduring appeal of the film's mythologized portrayal of the prewar South for many white Americans. Mothballing the film wouldn't do anything to change the underlying dynamics of US society. Moreover, even if one were to concede that The Birth of a Nation, The General, Gone with the Wind, The Song of the South, The Searchers, etc. all had a concrete, negative impact on race relations in the United States, that doesn't necessarily mean the films aren't interesting or that there aren't good reasons for watching them today (including entertainment value).Quoting Irish (view post)
Just because...
The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild
The last book I read was...
The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain
The (New) World
Agreed, but I can't remember where The General touches on race relations, unless you just mean that short scene where Keaton's character tries to join the South to impress his girl. And throwing The Searchers on the same paragraph is unfair - however you feel about John Ford in general, that is a movie ABOUT racism.Quoting baby doll (view post)
"Fleabag" has a better reviewed first season than either "Breaking Bad" or "Mad Men." "Unbelievable" and "Normal People" both have reviews above "Breaking Bad."Quoting baby doll (view post)
We're talking between 89%-100% here, going by RT. That doesn't seem like much distance.
(As a secondary consideration: "Fleabag" also won more Emmys than "Madmen," even though "Fleabag's" entire run was smaller than one of "Man Men's" seasons.)
I don't know why we'd assume that, especially as some reviewers pull double duty (eg: Matt Zoller Seitz, who reviews movies for RogerEbert.com and television for Vulture.)
Last edited by Irish; 06-18-2020 at 08:22 PM.
I was thinking less of the Tomato-meter than my sense that The Sopranos, The Wire, and Breaking Bad are the shows TV reviewers go to make the case that television can be Great Art on par with the 19th century novel.Quoting Irish (view post)
Just because...
The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild
The last book I read was...
The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain
The (New) World
I wasn't trying to suggest that either of those films as racist as Gone with the Wind, only that they're "problematic" by contemporary standards: The General because it sidesteps the issue of slavery altogether and portrays the Union soldiers as underhanded villains, The Searchers particularly in the scenes with Look, who's portrayed as a stereotypical "dumb Indian."Quoting Grouchy (view post)
Just because...
The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild
The last book I read was...
The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain
The (New) World
White supremacy is a characteristic of the Lost Cause. They're one in the same; there's no separating the two. Selling people on the idea of a noble and honorable Confederacy makes selling shit like Jim Crow easier to do.Quoting baby doll (view post)
Since I know you dig footnotes: David W. Blight (2001). Race and Reunion: The Civil War in American Memory. Harvard University Press. p. 259
Weird how people are pulling down those physical monuments right now tho huh
Your argument narrows and narrows.Quoting baby doll (view post)
It should go without saying your examples were on cable for years, with multi-year gaps between seasons, and were thus in the popular imagination for a long time.
It's hard to compare them to shows that appeared this year on streaming services --- but even still, given their popularity and critical success I don't think anyone can definitively say that "contemporary reviews" take men's stories more seriously than women's stories.
PS: If you think books buttress your argument, I can point you to titles & collections about "Desperate Housewives" and "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" published years before "Mad Men" and "Breaking Bad" appeared.
My take is he drove her insane by being a cheating asshole. I don't think of her as a hero, but I certainly understand her. And yes I want to rewatch it as well. Certainly one of Fincher's more interesting movies in terms of the male v female power dynamic. I imagine he also covered that with The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo but I haven't see that one or the original.Quoting Skitch (view post)
Last edited by MadMan; 06-18-2020 at 10:20 PM.
BLOG
And everybody wants to be special here
They call your name out loud and clear
Here comes a regular
Call out your name
Here comes a regular
Am I the only one here today?
I defer to your superior knowledge about television and the literature on it (a topic I'm not especially well versed in), but to return to the main point: Granting your objection that female-centred melodrama continues to thrive on American television, and that such programs are recognized by reviewers and the industry, does that refute my overall claim that reviewers and the industry take genres coded as masculine more seriously than genres coded as feminine? I would argue not since television, despite the strides it's made in recent years, is still a less prestigious medium than film. When the Society of Cinema and Media Studies had their annual conference in Toronto two years ago, I attended a talk where the panelists were all kvetching about how television studies is ghettoized in academia, how online journals count for less than print journals in a tenure case and most of the television journals are online, and how the concept of "prestige" television is always conflated with "cinematic" production values. Film continues to be the more culturally prestigious medium despite its declining popularity because a two-hour-plus film is still visibly more expensive to produce than a one-hour television program (Tom Cruise doesn't do TV) and because viewers invest more time, money, and effort in watching a film than a TV show (you actually have to leave your house, or at least you did pre-pandemic).Quoting Irish (view post)
Just because...
The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild
The last book I read was...
The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain
The (New) World
My point is that what GOTW did was not really that original or novel. And that I have no problem watching a movie where the female character is just as problematic as a male one would be. Now Johnny Guitar featured a woman character who was downright evil, but I chalk that up to her refusing to admit she loved an outlaw.Quoting baby doll (view post)
BLOG
And everybody wants to be special here
They call your name out loud and clear
Here comes a regular
Call out your name
Here comes a regular
Am I the only one here today?
Why is Lex Luthor whispering? Meh.Quoting Skitch (view post)
Last edited by MadMan; 06-18-2020 at 10:26 PM.
BLOG
And everybody wants to be special here
They call your name out loud and clear
Here comes a regular
Call out your name
Here comes a regular
Am I the only one here today?
Without getting too spoilery for you, the difference is one is cheater (GG) and the other rapist (TGWTDT). I can get behind the female power dynamic of TGWTDT, but in GG she literally murders a guy because of reasons? Because her husband did something that wasn't illegal? Because her feelings were hurt? Even faking her death to frame him for her murder is an overreaction imo. Who hasn't had someone cheat on them? And its not like they were married for 30 years and had 3 kids and all that...maybe I could buy into the mental break at that point, but as the movie has it, she just seemed like a vindictive psycho.Quoting MadMan (view post)
Again, as with Gone with the Wind, I would argue that the statues in themselves don't perpetuate white supremacy but are merely reflective of attitudes that were pervasive at the time they were erected (namely, that slave traders were fine people). They're coming down now because there's been a massive shift in public sentiment away from honouring dead slave traders, although I don't think anybody believes taking down a statue will stop police from brutalizing black people to enforce de facto segregation.Quoting Irish (view post)
Just because...
The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild
The last book I read was...
The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain
The (New) World
July 9.
Last Seen:
Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer (J. McNaughton, 1986) ☆
Blowup (M. Antonioni, 1966) ☆
Io capitano (M. Garrone, 2023) ☆
Raging Bull (M. Scorsese, 1980)
Network (S. Lumet, 1976) ☆
Sideways (A. Payne, 2004) ☆
More Than a Married Couple, But Not Lovers, S1 (T. Kato/J. Yamamoto, 2022) ☆
Tony Takitani (J. Ichikawa, 2004) ☆
The General (C. Bruckman/B. Keaton, 1926) ☆
Sherlock Jr. (B. Keaton, 1924) ☆
First time ☆
Isn't that scene from him in jail?Quoting MadMan (view post)
Genuinely confused by this. You are talking about the antagonist, right? Because Vienna is awesome - she's not evil.Quoting MadMan (view post)
EDIT: Never mind, just read your review.
Last edited by Grouchy; 06-18-2020 at 11:14 PM.
Yes that VO is from Lex talking to Batman in jail at end of BVSQuoting Dukefrukem (view post)
Last Seen:
Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer (J. McNaughton, 1986) ☆
Blowup (M. Antonioni, 1966) ☆
Io capitano (M. Garrone, 2023) ☆
Raging Bull (M. Scorsese, 1980)
Network (S. Lumet, 1976) ☆
Sideways (A. Payne, 2004) ☆
More Than a Married Couple, But Not Lovers, S1 (T. Kato/J. Yamamoto, 2022) ☆
Tony Takitani (J. Ichikawa, 2004) ☆
The General (C. Bruckman/B. Keaton, 1926) ☆
Sherlock Jr. (B. Keaton, 1924) ☆
First time ☆
So I guess they added Batman v Superman Ultimate Edition on this platform. Have I seen that version? Or is that new to the platform only?