View Poll Results: Joker (Todd Phillips)

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  • Comedy

    11 64.71%
  • Tragedy

    6 35.29%
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Thread: Joker (Todd Phillips)

  1. #101
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    I love reading about the behind the scene stuff when movies get the green light. I guess WB was so scared of this movie, they decided to co-finance it to reduce risk. And now they have to split the profits.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/m...ker-movie.html

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  2. #102
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    I'll say this much... I'd be way more interested in this extended universe than the one given in Justice League/Suicide Squad.

    American Honey - ***
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  3. #103
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Here's my (hopefully) controversial list of theatrically released Batman movies, best to worst.

    1. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
    2. Joker
    3. Batman Returns
    4. Batman Begins
    5. Batman (1989)
    6. Batman (1966)
    7. The Dark Knight
    8. Batman Forever
    9. The Dark Knight Rises
    10. Batman and Robin
    11. Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice
    12. Justice League
    13. Suicide Squad

  4. #104
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    1. The Dark Knight
    2. Batman: The Dark Knight Returns Part 1 & 2
    3. The Dark Knight Rises
    4. Batman Begins
    5. Batman Returns
    6. Joker
    7. Batman Forever (This one really needs a rewatch, but my distant memory of it is of a fun, colorful if slight romp)
    8. Batman (1989)
    9. Justice League
    10. Justice League: War
    11. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
    12. Suicide Squad
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  5. #105
    good for health Skitch's Avatar
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    Guys, you're using internet random list generators all wrong.

  6. #106
    the maker of my own evil Ivan Drago's Avatar
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    1. Batman Returns
    2. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
    3. The Dark Knight
    4. Batman Begins
    5. Batman (1989)
    6. Batman: The Dark Knight Returns Part 1 & 2
    7. Batman (1966)
    8. The Dark Knight Rises
    9. Joker
    10. Batman Forever
    11. Justice League
    12. Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice
    13. Batman and Robin
    14. Suicide Squad
    Last Five Films I've Seen (Out of 5)

    Sátántangó (Tarr, 1994) 10
    Charlie's Angels (Banks, 2019) 3
    Pain and Glory (Almodovar, 2019) 3.5
    The Outsiders (Coppola, 1983) 3.5
    Jojo Rabbit (Waititi, 2019) 4.5
    Under The Silver Lake (Mitchell, 2019) 4.5
    The Devils (Russell, 1971) 4.5
    First Love (Miike, 2019) 4
    Parasite (Bong, 2019) 4.5

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  7. #107
    1. Batman Returns
    2. Batman (1989)
    3. The Dark Knight Rises

    Everything else is below 60 and not worth talking about. (Haven't seen Joker or the animated movies or B vs. S)
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    El
    (1973) 70
    The Day After
    (1983
    ) 63
    Duck, You Sucker (1971) 68
    Young Mr. Lincoln (1939) 71
    Noriko’s Dinner Party
    (2005) 61
    The Third Murder (2017) 56

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    (1999) 85

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  8. #108
    good for health Skitch's Avatar
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    Okay, I've seen Joker now. I'm surprised everyone seems to be leaning hard into the Taxi Driver comparison with no mention of Network. I'd say its a mix of the two.

  9. #109
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    Okay, I've seen Joker now. I'm surprised everyone seems to be leaning hard into the Taxi Driver comparison with no mention of Network. I'd say its a mix of the two.
    Well, it's King of Comedy more than anything. I find the discourse both positive and negative around Joker to be fascinating. It's wild that a film that feels closer to Rob Zombie in tone than eg. Chris Nolan or Tim Burton (or even Zack Snyder) can be this big of a hit. It's also weird reading the negative reviews from critics (and more than a few them utterly hated it) since I think a lot of extratextual shit is in play here. "Who" is this movie for? Can a movie directed by the Hangover and Old School guy be that good?
    Ratings on a 1-10 scale for your pleasure:

    Doctor Sleep - 8
    The Lighthouse - 9
    Parasite - 8
    Good Boys - 5
    Scream 2 - 7
    Black Christmas (1974) - 9
    Joker - 7
    Ad Astra - 8
    Toy Story 4 - 8
    IT Chapter Two - 5

  10. #110
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    Batman 89 is one of the first movies where I actively noticed editing.

    To this day it’s one of the worst edited movies I’ve ever seen get a wide release.

  11. #111
    Editor
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    I changed my mind and now rate this film 10/10 and rank this #1 in the Batmanverse.

    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  12. #112
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    Well, it's King of Comedy more than anything. I find the discourse both positive and negative around Joker to be fascinating. It's wild that a film that feels closer to Rob Zombie in tone than eg. Chris Nolan or Tim Burton (or even Zack Snyder) can be this big of a hit. It's also weird reading the negative reviews from critics (and more than a few them utterly hated it) since I think a lot of extratextual shit is in play here. "Who" is this movie for? Can a movie directed by the Hangover and Old School guy be that good?
    I haven't understood some of the critical hate to the movie that use those questions as a negative hit. It's only the biggest known villain in all of comics... And we shouldn't be expecting positive morals out of him either.

    I also have no idea how to respond to the thought of, "Well, if you remove the Joker and Bruce Wayne stuff, then the movie sucks..."

    I can certainly buy on that the movie uses other movies to exist. This criticism hits Tarantino too, but it doesn't affect my own personal experience.

    Quite the weird approach ot this one.

    American Honey - ***
    Doctor Sleep - ***
    The Painted Bird - *


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  13. #113
    good for health Skitch's Avatar
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    Agreed, E. This seems to be one of those movies where some of the people that hate it just seem to be utterly baffled by every single thing, when in other movies they don't nearly flip that critical an eye to every character's decision.

    Not looking at anyone on MC. Generalizing.

  14. #114
    Second star to the right [ETM]'s Avatar
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    I disagree. I was merely put off by the movie, and for precise reasons. I'm baffled and somewhat surprised and even disgusted by some of the positive hyperbole and "analysis" that I've seen online since.
    When we left the theatre, my wife likened the experience to watching a gangrenous wound: sure, the colors are pretty, but it smells of death and is about as pleasant.

  15. #115
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting [ETM] (view post)
    I disagree. I was merely put off by the movie, and for precise reasons. I'm baffled and somewhat surprised and even disgusted by some of the positive hyperbole and "analysis" that I've seen online since.
    When we left the theatre, my wife likened the experience to watching a gangrenous wound: sure, the colors are pretty, but it smells of death and is about as pleasant.
    I assume you're talking about the message you find reprehensible or something like that, but how do you feel about it as a movie?

  16. #116
    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    .
    I also have no idea how to respond to the thought of, "Well, if you remove the Joker and Bruce Wayne stuff, then the movie sucks..."
    .
    Somewhat unrelated, but this reminded me of someone online (Letterboxd I think) saying that Joker is kind a sad reflection of where mainstream movies have ended up - this exact same movie about someone not the Joker probably wouldn’t have been greenlit, let alone make any money. So going forward, all our adult genre films need to have a superhero angle? A romantic comedy starring Catwoman? A regular legal thriller but with Harvey Dent the main character? We are deep in an era of pandering to references. “I recognize that!”
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    El
    (1973) 70
    The Day After
    (1983
    ) 63
    Duck, You Sucker (1971) 68
    Young Mr. Lincoln (1939) 71
    Noriko’s Dinner Party
    (2005) 61
    The Third Murder (2017) 56

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    /Toy Story
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    Vice (2018) 57
    The Counterfeit Traitor (1962) 62

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  17. #117
    good for health Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting [ETM] (view post)
    When we left the theatre, my wife likened the experience to watching a gangrenous wound: sure, the colors are pretty, but it smells of death and is about as pleasant.
    Yep. She nailed it. I dont think anyone is saying its a happy happy fun time. Doesnt mean its bad.

  18. #118
    I'm seeing this today in after I see Blood Simple for the first time on the big screen. The only reason I want to see Joker is how divisive it is. Then I get to tell half of them that they are wrong. That's just good business.
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    El
    (1973) 70
    The Day After
    (1983
    ) 63
    Duck, You Sucker (1971) 68
    Young Mr. Lincoln (1939) 71
    Noriko’s Dinner Party
    (2005) 61
    The Third Murder (2017) 56

    /Audition
    (1999) 85

    /Toy Story
    (1995) 65
    Vice (2018) 57
    The Counterfeit Traitor (1962) 62

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  19. #119
    Scott of the Antarctic Milky Joe's Avatar
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    I predict a 62/100
    ‎The severed arm perfectly acquitted itself, because of the simplicity of its wishes and its total lack of doubt.

  20. #120
    Quote Quoting Milky Joe (view post)
    I predict a 62/100
    That’s close to my lifetime average, so good guess!
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    El
    (1973) 70
    The Day After
    (1983
    ) 63
    Duck, You Sucker (1971) 68
    Young Mr. Lincoln (1939) 71
    Noriko’s Dinner Party
    (2005) 61
    The Third Murder (2017) 56

    /Audition
    (1999) 85

    /Toy Story
    (1995) 65
    Vice (2018) 57
    The Counterfeit Traitor (1962) 62

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  21. #121
    55/100

    Mental illness can be scary to an outsider, and that is the case here, with a few isolated scenes of creepy fear (sitting in Beetz' apartment, for example) and tense moments of calm before the explosion. But Phillips undercuts a lot of these moments with stuff that doesn't really make a lot of sense (Fleck doesn't seem to be all that clued into pop culture, so the music cues (e.g., Gary Glitter on the stairs) seem artificial and audience pandering rather than reflecting anything going on inside the character) or that treats the audience like imbeciles (the flashbacks on his interactions with Beetz), and for all the fear of this sparking violence within a certain segment of the audience, this has almost zero political savvy at all - it's just a bunch of shit happening to push Fleck around the gameboard to reach the inevitable conclusion. Worst of all though, and this is my own bias here, but flat-out mentally ill protagonists who act unpredictably from start to finish are inherently dramatically uninteresting to me.

    So it sum, a a number of isolated interesting scenes encased in dramatic lethargy and artificial posturing.
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    El
    (1973) 70
    The Day After
    (1983
    ) 63
    Duck, You Sucker (1971) 68
    Young Mr. Lincoln (1939) 71
    Noriko’s Dinner Party
    (2005) 61
    The Third Murder (2017) 56

    /Audition
    (1999) 85

    /Toy Story
    (1995) 65
    Vice (2018) 57
    The Counterfeit Traitor (1962) 62

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  22. #122
    good for health Skitch's Avatar
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    But...how do you feel about it compared to MCU films?

  23. #123
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    But...how do you feel about it compared to MCU films?
    More ambitious but more self-conscious about it. Much more interesting to discuss in terms of its motivations, (attempts at) meaning etc. than literally anything the MCU has produced.
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    El
    (1973) 70
    The Day After
    (1983
    ) 63
    Duck, You Sucker (1971) 68
    Young Mr. Lincoln (1939) 71
    Noriko’s Dinner Party
    (2005) 61
    The Third Murder (2017) 56

    /Audition
    (1999) 85

    /Toy Story
    (1995) 65
    Vice (2018) 57
    The Counterfeit Traitor (1962) 62

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  24. #124
    good for health Skitch's Avatar
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    So in the pantheon of all comic book related films, sounds like slightly upper mid tier?

  25. #125
    Second star to the right [ETM]'s Avatar
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    Joker (Todd Phillips)

    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    Yep. She nailed it. I dont think anyone is saying its a happy happy fun time. Doesnt mean its bad.
    Well, if it was an unpleasant experience that engaged you it can be good. But Joker doesn't ask any real questions nor does it offer any insight beyond generic tidbits about inequality and abuse. Sure, it is handsomely packaged, like I said in my first post, but the veneer is too thin to cover up the clumsy innards.

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