View Poll Results: ONCE UPON A TIME... IN HOLLYWOOD

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Thread: Once Upon a Time in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino)

  1. #76
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    This was a wonderful... experience. The film continues recent tendencies of Tarantino to focus on character work and create suspense only to deflate it but, like Gale says, it veers dangerously close to P.T. Anderson territory. I feel like Boogie Nights (and most of Anderson's recent output, which offers large canvases of a certain time period in History) must have been a huge influence on QT for this. One thing that surprised me is that, like Ezee E says, someone who knows nothing about the Tate murders will be completely confused by this. This is a gift from a film nerd to other film nerds. It reminds me of what Alan Moore said about The Killing Joke - if you're not a comic book nerd, you completely miss the relevance of the story being told.

    I was also a fan of the driving scenes. And I have no real knowledge of the distances of California but it seems to me the first drive of the movie, made by Cliff from Dalton's home to his trailer house, worked as a storytelling device showing the social and financial divide between the two men. The other extended driving scenes were at least wonderfully poetic. That's also why I have no qualms with Quentin's version of Tate - she wants us to see this young actress having fun on what might be the final days of her life.
    Last edited by Grouchy; 08-30-2019 at 12:47 AM.

  2. #77
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Huh, I'd like to read what John Waters has to say about this movie.

  3. #78
    unattainable Zac Efron's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    Huh, I'd like to read what John Waters has to say about this movie.
    Apparently he is friends with Quentin and likes the film. When I go to Camp John Waters in a few weeks, I have no doubt someone will ask him for a full opinion.

  4. #79
    MADMAN THE 13TH MadMan's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Zac Efron (view post)
    Apparently he is friends with Quentin and likes the film. When I go to Camp John Waters in a few weeks, I have no doubt someone will ask him for a full opinion.
    You totally should.

    Margot Robbie gets all the props from me for this film, but I have been a fan of hers since Wolf of Wall Street.
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  5. #80
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Watched this again. About my one slightly negative takeaway would be that I don't really get the point of the Spahn Ranch scene where Cliff beats up the "hippie". If anything, it seems to lessen the threat of the Family, which will already be lessened by the ending. The sequence could have ended with Pitt walking away and spared the confrontation until the finale, I think.

    But still, this is beautiful stuff.

  6. #81
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    Finally this is released here, after an absurd two-month delay than most everywhere. Enjoyed it immensely, and maybe some more thoughts later, but just want to say first that this may have QT's best/most beautiful/etc. final scene alongside Jackie Brown. A heavenly gate of such hushed awe and reverence opens up for Rick to enter an alternate history of what and who could be, but the recognition of that tragedy still lurks strong for both the audience and the film, so that we drift up away with the camera and can only observe a union between fact, fiction, and tribute fantasy from afar. Honestly still teary thinking about it.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  7. #82
    May vie with Jackie Brown as Tarantino’s worst.
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  8. #83
    50/100

    The least Tarantino-like Tarantino movie there has ever been, which is neither a good thing or a bad thing on the face of it, but his filmmaking has become so digressive over the years that his attempts here to wring genuine emotion out of nostalgia fall flat. His screenplays since, I don't know, Kill Bill, are basically a collage of "moments" strung together and hauled along by his unquenchable penchant for showboating and wickedly florid dialogue and thus they live and die on the quality of those moments (the big three Inglourious Basterds scenes, for example) rather than any accumulation of feeling or narrative momentum over the course of the entire film.

    And in OUATIH, these moments are pretty much gone, and the dialogue is pedestrian in a way it has never been before, and basically none of the jokes land when they need to, and you're left wondering why we are watching Rick talk to a little girl for what seems 2 hours.
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    El
    (1973) 70
    The Day After
    (1983
    ) 63
    Duck, You Sucker (1971) 68
    Young Mr. Lincoln (1939) 71
    Norikoís Dinner Party
    (2005) 61
    The Third Murder (2017) 56

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  9. #84
    MADMAN THE 13TH MadMan's Avatar
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    I liked the stuff with Rick and the little girl. Oh well.
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  10. #85
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    His screenplays since, I don't know, Kill Bill, are basically a collage of "moments" strung together and hauled along by his unquenchable penchant for showboating and wickedly florid dialogue and thus they live and die on the quality of those moments (the big three Inglourious Basterds scenes, for example) rather than any accumulation of feeling or narrative momentum over the course of the entire film.
    This type of criticism I find kind of weird, because what you are essentially saying is that you think this movie is worse than Inglourious Basterds because the WWII epic has better set pieces or scenes, but you also seem to suggest that it's an inherent weakness of Tarantino as a writer to center the whole strenght of his plots around this type of intense sequences, which is something he has always done to some extent. I guess what I'm saying is that you're treating writing in general or a particular writing style as if it's some type of stunt. If it works, it works.

  11. #86
    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    (a) This type of criticism I find kind of weird, because what you are essentially saying is that you think this movie is worse than Inglourious Basterds because the WWII epic has better set pieces or scenes, but (b) you also seem to suggest that it's an inherent weakness of Tarantino as a writer to center the whole strenght of his plots around this type of intense sequences, which is something he has always done to some extent. (c) I guess what I'm saying is that you're treating writing in general or a particular writing style as if it's some type of stunt. (d) If it works, it works.
    (a) Yes.
    (b) Yes. He is not good at building up to anything over the course of a movie as a whole (though some people obviously disagree with me with regards to Jackie Brown, for one). This is not a bad thing if the isolated scenes are entertaining in their own right, but it is deadly when they are not, as is the case here.
    (c) I don't understand this. I'm talking about Tarantino in particular.
    (d) Of course. It worked in Pulp Fiction and Death Proof, and mostly in IB. It just doesn't work here at all. The last scene had zero resonance for me at all.
    Last edited by transmogrifier; 09-30-2019 at 11:14 AM.
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    El
    (1973) 70
    The Day After
    (1983
    ) 63
    Duck, You Sucker (1971) 68
    Young Mr. Lincoln (1939) 71
    Norikoís Dinner Party
    (2005) 61
    The Third Murder (2017) 56

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    The Counterfeit Traitor (1962) 62

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  12. #87
    good for health Skitch's Avatar
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    I am enjoying the conversation and dont really have anything to agree or disagree with, except I dont understand (c) either?

  13. #88
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Well, bear with me and think of it a little in relation to another example - Raymond Chandler novels. Suppose you read The Long Goodbye or Farewell, My Lovely and then you read Playback, which I suppose every fan would consider the least good Marlowe book. Following your post, one could think "Chandler's plots are always a collage of seemingly random but important characters which appear late into the story, scenes of Marlowe being mean and sarcastic to people and a violent and tragic conclusion - his books live and die by the quality of those elements". Well, yeah. Every story lives or dies by its quality and shows more of its foundations and seams when it's not as gripping or effective.

    Regardless, I don't think Hollywood is Tarantino's weakest film at all and I truly loved some of the stuff you deride like the scenes on set with the little girl.
    Last edited by Grouchy; 09-30-2019 at 10:22 PM.

  14. #89
    - - - - - Irish's Avatar
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    That Chandler's plots suck is a common criticism and (I thought?) widely acknowledged. What makes Chandler special is that, while plots matter to mystery stories, they don't to his.

    Action adventures and crime pictures (or however you classify Tarantino's movies) usually require tight structures and good frameworks --- coherent stories with visible throughlines --- but that's never been Tarantino's strength or his main draw.

    This is an odd case where I think both Trans and Grouchy are seemingly at odds but both simultaneously right. The approach is just different. Trans is more interested if OUATIH works as a standalone movie and Grouch is more interested in whether it works as Tarantino.

  15. #90
    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    That Chandler's plots suck is a common criticism and (I thought?) widely acknowledged. What makes Chandler special is that, while plots matter to mystery stories, they don't to his.
    Chandler basically admits to this in his essay "The Simple Art of Murder," where he argues for the virtues of dramatic scenes in mystery stories over elaborately detailed plots.
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    Narrative Comprehension and Film by Edward Branigan


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  16. #91
    - - - - - Irish's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    Chandler basically admits to this in his essay "The Simple Art of Murder," where he argues for the virtues of dramatic scenes in mystery stories over elaborately detailed plots.
    I took that more as a veiled jab at Agatha Christie rather than an admission of weakness.

    I agree, but I was also thinking of him in an academic sense. I haven't read a professional take on Chandler than doesn't immediately sidestep his plot issues the way Grouchy sidesteps them with Tarantino. I think effectively saying "Yeah, but ..." is a valid viewpoint in this case.

    Nobody reads Chandler for the plot and I don't think people go to Tarantino movies expecting the story of their lifetime.

  17. #92
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    I seriously think Dazed and Confused is one of the unsung influences on this. Dazed also is very plotless and has people mostly hopping into cars with whatever is on the radio at the time in the car becoming the film's soundtrack.

    EDIT: actually QT has been doing this since Res Dogs and Pulp Fiction. The "ooga chaka hooked on a feeling" song plays out in the same way in Dogs + the Statler Brother song Butch sings along to in PF. But those moments are stretched out for long patches in Hollywood closer to the hangout quality of Dazed.
    Last edited by Pop Trash; 10-01-2019 at 05:10 AM.
    Ratings on a 1-10 scale for your pleasure:

    Joker - 7
    Ad Astra - 8
    Toy Story 4 - 8
    IT Chapter Two - 5
    Desperately Seeking Susan - 7
    Parasite - 7
    Once Upon a Time in Hollywood - 9
    Manson (1973) - 7
    Brick - 7
    War of the Worlds (2005) - 8

  18. #93
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting MadMan (view post)
    I liked the stuff with Rick and the little girl. Oh well.
    I do too. It's disarmingly sweet for a QT movie. Plus the "read the tea leaves" of the future generation reading a bio of Walt Disney, while he reads a dogeared pulp western novel. The performances help.
    Last edited by Pop Trash; 10-01-2019 at 05:20 AM.
    Ratings on a 1-10 scale for your pleasure:

    Joker - 7
    Ad Astra - 8
    Toy Story 4 - 8
    IT Chapter Two - 5
    Desperately Seeking Susan - 7
    Parasite - 7
    Once Upon a Time in Hollywood - 9
    Manson (1973) - 7
    Brick - 7
    War of the Worlds (2005) - 8

  19. #94
    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    I seriously think Dazed and Confused is one of the unsung influences on this. Dazed also is very plotless and has people mostly hopping into cars with whatever is on the radio at the time in the car becoming the film's soundtrack.

    EDIT: actually QT has been doing this since Res Dogs and Pulp Fiction. The "ooga chaka hooked on a feeling" song plays out in the same way in Dogs + the Statler Brother song Butch sings along to in PF. But those moments are stretched out for long patches in Hollywood closer to the hangout quality of Dazed.
    I have a feeling that was what QT was going for, but I just donít think heís very good at tone and rhythm over the course of a film has a whole - he just doesnít have it in him, or maybe heís not all that interested in it - which is crucial if you really are shooting for a hangout film that accumulates sentiment, power, whatever as it progresses. Tarantino is excellent at tone and mood in the context of single scenes, no doubt, but the air leaks out when you string them together. So for me, itís not about the plot per se because DAC is one of my favorite films of all time. Itís about the rhythm and timing. Itís all off.
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    El
    (1973) 70
    The Day After
    (1983
    ) 63
    Duck, You Sucker (1971) 68
    Young Mr. Lincoln (1939) 71
    Norikoís Dinner Party
    (2005) 61
    The Third Murder (2017) 56

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    (1999) 85

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    (1995) 65
    Vice (2018) 57
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  20. #95
    MADMAN THE 13TH MadMan's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    I do too. It's disarmingly sweet for a QT movie. Plus the "read the tea leaves" of the future generation reading a bio of Walt Disney, while he reads a dogeared pulp western novel. The performances help.
    Oh, absolutely. Also it could reflect the fact that at one point Leo was just like that little girl-a serious child actor.
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  21. #96
    MADMAN THE 13TH MadMan's Avatar
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    OUATIH doesn't really feel like QT's other movies, save for maybe Jackie Brown and possibly Death Proof. That's what I find so interesting about it.
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  22. #97
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting MadMan (view post)
    OUATIH doesn't really feel like QT's other movies, save for maybe Jackie Brown and possibly Death Proof. That's what I find so interesting about it.
    Kill Bill 2 has some moments of tenderness. It seems mostly aligned with that and Jackie Brown. It's so strange he made Jackie Brown after Pulp Fiction since JB feels like more of an old man movie than anything else he has made.
    Ratings on a 1-10 scale for your pleasure:

    Joker - 7
    Ad Astra - 8
    Toy Story 4 - 8
    IT Chapter Two - 5
    Desperately Seeking Susan - 7
    Parasite - 7
    Once Upon a Time in Hollywood - 9
    Manson (1973) - 7
    Brick - 7
    War of the Worlds (2005) - 8

  23. #98
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    Hahah that's right. He was never that subtle or contemplative again.

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