Attack-Free Unpopular Opinion Thread

[Morris Schæffer]

Okay people....buckle up. I know this will be hard for you not to attack.

Star Trek: TMP. Easily the best ST film. Not even close. Most cinematic, all others feel like "big" episodes. I adore this movie.

Next in line is ST6:TUC. Fucking kickass flick. Yep, feels like big episode, but it's a damn good one, and I love all the reactions Kirk has to the misinterpreted actions. That's good writing.

Next is ST9:I. Yep it's a big episode. But it's a good one.

Next is ST3:TSFS.
Next is ST2:TWOK. Kahn is a fucking pussy. Yes....he has some of the best lines in all of Trek. Also, giant type A Trump level bully pussy. [Read in whiny baby voice] "I am the perfect being. Kirk abandoned us on a totally awesome planet but later a side planet blew up and made our planet suck and Kirk didnt come back to check on us years later so NOW ACTIVATE SHAKESPEAREIAN LIFE VENDETA, also have I mentioned I am the perfect being?" Fuck off asshat.
F uck Kahns motivations.

Rest...8, 5, 10, 4, 7.

[transmogrifier]

I've only ever seen the Abrams' Muppet Babies version of Star Trek (all three of 'em!), and the one with the humpback whales on TV one time. I've ever watched any of the TV shows. So I guess my unpopular opinion is that I couldn't care less about Star Trek.

[Morris Schæffer]

TMP is the worst not just Star Trek, but space movie of all time.

The correct rankings can be found here: https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/li...nchise-ranked/

Kudos to FC on #1 but then Nemesis on #2?!

No, these are the correct rankings:

1. Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Star Trek First Contact
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Star Trek Generations
Star Trek
Star Trek VIII Insurrection
Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
Star Trek The Motion Picture
Star Trek Into Darkness
Star Trek Beyond
Star Trek Nemesis
13. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

[Skitch]

TMP is the worst not just Star Trek, but space movie of all time.

The correct rankings can be found here: https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/li...nchise-ranked/

I mean....what? You say TMP is the worst ST and worst space movie then show rankings where it's not listed as worst even ST? Not attacking you, dont care if you hate it, but you're not making sense.

[Morris Schæffer]

I mean....what? You say TMP is the worst ST and worst space movie then show rankings where it's not listed as worst even ST? Not attacking you, dont care if you hate it, but you're not making sense.

That's...an excellent point.

[Irish]

Eh. II, IV, and VI seem like the ones where the cast is having the most fun. I, III, and IV just stalled out. They're no fun.

"Wrath of Khan" is probably my favorite at this point. It includes everything that made "Star Trek" notable: cool sci-fi ideas, over the top space battles, melodramatic villains, personally driven stories. I like that it's a quasi sequel that doesn't require anyone to be familiar with the show. I mean, somebody asks Kirk what's Khan's beef is and Kirk literally waves the question away. Who cares? Nobody watches this because of the backstory. I wish more movies would take note.

"Voyage Home" is fan service & it's barely science fiction. But the jokes are funny. ("No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in space.") I do like the premise around the idea that humans aren't the center of the universe, something the show returned to again and again in its better moments.

"Undiscovered Country" is another good chunk of action sci-fi. The assassination sequence in zero-G is particularly memorable. Probably one of the better examples of contemporary political dramas informing science-fiction both in and out of the Star Trek universe. The politics were fun ("Human rights. You should hear yourselves.") and not overbearing.

None of the "Next Generation" movies were really worth a damn, because they had awkward cast size and couldn't always build the movies around the show's strengths --- which almost always involved Patrick Stewart's performance as Picard.

[Dukefrukem]

I mean....what? You say TMP is the worst ST and worst space movie then show rankings where it's not listed as worst even ST? Not attacking you, dont care if you hate it, but you're not making sense.

Hyperbole.

[Dukefrukem]

Eh. II, IV, and VI seem like the ones where the cast is having the most fun. I, III, and IV just stalled out. They're no fun.

"Wrath of Khan" is probably my favorite at this point. It includes everything that made "Star Trek" notable: cool sci-fi ideas, over the top space battles, melodramatic villains, personally driven stories. I like that it's a quasi sequel that doesn't require anyone to be familiar with the show. I mean, somebody asks Kirk what's Khan's beef is and Kirk literally waves the question away. Who cares? Nobody watches this because of the backstory. I wish more movies would take note.

"Voyage Home" is fan service & it's barely science fiction. But the jokes are funny. ("No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in space.") I do like the premise around the idea that humans aren't the center of the universe, something the show returned to again and again in its better moments.

"Undiscovered Country" is another good chunk of action sci-fi. The assassination sequence in zero-G is particularly memorable. Probably one of the better examples of contemporary political dramas informing science-fiction both in and out of the Star Trek universe. The politics were fun ("Human rights. You should hear yourselves.") and not overbearing.

None of the "Next Generation" movies were really worth a damn, because they had awkward cast size and couldn't always build the movies around the show's strengths --- which almost always involved Patrick Stewart's performance as Picard.

Since Picard is the superior captain, it makes sense that most of his movies would naturally come off as more interesting. In my limited, limited knowledge of the continuity, Picard is a much more interesting character than Kirk.

[Skitch]

Since Picard is the superior captain, it makes sense that most of his movies would naturally come off as more interesting. In my limited, limited knowledge of the continuity, Picard is a much more interesting character than Kirk.

Picard is way, WAY cooler than Kirk. Hes a fucking badass. Unfortunately I feel like the Next Gen movies don't play as well unless you just finished watching the series and its really fresh in mind. Especially the stuff with Data (in the movies). Him and his emotions chip and whatnot in the movies is downright annoying unless you've just come off the series where it was a direct topic.

Edit: I should've made note that none of the Star Trek movies are a thumbs down to me. I enjoy them all.

Edit 2: It infuriates me to know the studio cut 40-50 minutes out of Nemesis.

[Dukefrukem]

99.9% of what I know about Star Trek (outside of the movies) comes from RLM btw. I love it when Mike goes off on tangents and relates every synopsis back to ST.

Their recent Discovery and Picard videos are top notch.

[Irish]

I wouldn't say one captain is better than another because they're both so different, and the two shows were both so different.

Here's my pet theory on why the original show worked in ways that the subsequent shows don't: The cast and character chemistry.

There's something good and fun connecting Kirk, Spock, and McCoy and the actors who played them. The producers were smart enough to differentiate the character's personalities, separating them into the rough silos of id, ego, and super-ego. (Or: mind, body, and spirit). Kirk is all body, action based and randy; Spock attempts to be, of course, purely rational; McCoy is their collective moral center. There's a focus on Kirk but he's not meant to be a standalone character. One of the others is always in tow. (If you think about it, "Star Wars" did something similar with Luke, Leia, and Han).

That sort of dynamic doesn't exist on the subsequent "Star Trek" shows. They kinda sorta tried to emulate it here and there. (Worf, Data, Odo, Quark, Seven of Nine, and The Doctor all inherited various traits from Spock.) But it also never really jelled, and it's noticeably awkward when the writers forced it (consider the father-son dynamic between Wesley and Picard, or the romantic relationship between Worf and Troi). When people talk about "TNG" now, or its best episodes, the familiar call outs are almost always around Patrick Stewart and episodes that featured his character exclusively. That doesn't happen with the original show, and it couldn't have happened because "Star Trek" was built around a holy space trinity of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. "Next Generation" survived largely off Stewart's back, once the writers understood how good of an actor he was (and how bad some of the others were.)

This lack of dynamic is also why I think JJ Abrams' movies don't work on a fundamental level: The chemistry is non-existent and the interplay is forced, with some of those actors not doing much more than a imitation of the original cast's performances. They also thought, for some reason, that people wanted a "Next Generation" bloat in an original-show movie, and without that id-ego-super-ego electricity to move things along.

[Skitch]

Why I like Picard better than Kirk is his intelligence and willingness to trust his companions with their strengths. Far too often Kirk is just damn lucky whereas Picard is fucking smart and wise.

Oh were in the correct thread for this take as well...Star Trek Voyager was cool. Some incredibly dark stuff at times.

[Dukefrukem]

I wouldn't say one captain is better than another because they're both so different, and the two shows were both so different.

Here's my pet theory on why the original show worked in ways that the subsequent shows don't: The cast and character chemistry.

There's something good and fun connecting Kirk, Spock, and McCoy and the actors who played them. The producers were smart enough to differentiate the character's personalities, separating them into the rough silos of id, ego, and super-ego. (Or: mind, body, and spirit). Kirk is all body, action based and randy; Spock attempts to be, of course, purely rational; McCoy is their collective moral center. There's a focus on Kirk but he's not meant to be a standalone character. One of the others is always in tow. (If you think about it, "Star Wars" did something similar with Luke, Leia, and Han).

That sort of dynamic doesn't exist on the subsequent "Star Trek" shows. They kinda sorta tried to emulate it here and there. (Worf, Data, Odo, Quark, Seven of Nine, and The Doctor all inherited various traits from Spock.) But it also never really jelled, and it's noticeably awkward when the writers forced it (consider the father-son dynamic between Wesley and Picard, or the romantic relationship between Worf and Troi). When people talk about "TNG" now, or its best episodes, the familiar call outs are almost always around Patrick Stewart and episodes that featured his character exclusively. That doesn't happen with the original show, and it couldn't have happened because "Star Trek" was built around a holy space trinity of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

This lack of dynamic is also why I think JJ Abrams' movies don't work on a fundamental level: The chemistry is non-existent and the interplay is forced, with some of those actors not doing much more than a imitation of the original cast's performances. They also thought, for some reason, that people wanted a "Next Generation" bloat in an original-show movie, and without that id-ego-super-ego electricity to move things along.

Would i get any of that if I watched through the original series today?

[Irish]

Would i get any of that if I watched through the original series today?

I'm not sure. The original show had bona-fide science fiction writers writing for it, and it was made in age when pulp stories and melodramas were a lot more common. The low grade production values and serious helpings of cheese might put you off.

But I think if you like the actors and you like the interplay between the characters then maybe. (Think again of Luke, Leia, and Han or in a narrower sense: Mulder and Scully).

Beyond the characters, though, the show did have some startling and original sci-fi ideas in it, which is also something subsequent incarnations of the franchise seriously lacked.

[Irish]

Why I like Picard better than Kirk is his intelligence and willingness to trust his companions with their strengths. Far too often Kirk is just damn lucky whereas Picard is fucking smart and wise.

Kirk is the guy I want on my side during a bar fight.

Picard is the guy I want showing up on my side during the subsequent trial.

[Skitch]

Kirk is the guy I want on my side during a bar fight.

Picard is the guy I want showing up on my side during the subsequent trial.

HA! You're not wrong! I would say same.

Except Picard is the guy I would want on my side in some intergalactic incident as well. His actions (I know, writers) in response to the craziness in Insurrection were so perfect it made me emotional.

"Sir we just fired on them! Should I raise shields?!"
"NO!, Surrender! NOW! Tell them we are beaming over, unarmed."

Perfect. PERFECT! Because thats what not-guilty people would do!! Oh man I loved that so much. I don't know that Kirk would've done same. Picard is playing [oh for fucks sake I was gonna say Picard is playing chess and Kirk checkers, but then I remembered 3d chess with Spock]

...

[Irish]

HA! You're not wrong! I would say same.

Except Picard is the guy I would want on my side in some intergalactic incident as well. His actions (I know, writers) in response to the craziness in Insurrection were so perfect it made me emotional.

"Sir we just fired on them! Should I raise shields?!"
"NO!, Surrender! NOW! Tell them we are beaming over, unarmed."

Perfect. PERFECT! Because thats what not-guilty people would do!! Oh man I loved that so much. I don't know that Kirk would've done same. Picard is playing [oh for fucks sake I was gonna say Picard is playing chess and Kirk checkers, but then I remembered 3d chess with Spock]

...

It's a good scene, but maybe not original to "Insurrection."

My memory is cloudy but I'm pretty sure there's an extremely similar moment in "Undiscovered Country" when the Enterprise fires on an unshielded Klingon ship. I think?


Dammit Skitch now I'm gonna end up watch all this shit again.

[Skitch]

Oh lets keep this going...I've also been rewatching Bond movies.

1. Goldeneye
2. License To Kill

other Bond movies

rapey Bond movies

(not included: Daniel Craig Bonds)

[Skitch]

It's a good scene, but maybe not original to "Insurrection."

My memory is cloudy but I'm pretty sure there's an extremely similar moment in "Undiscovered Country" when the Enterprise fires on an unshielded Klingon ship. I think?


Dammit Skitch now I'm gonna end up watch all this shit again.

Yes Undiscovered Country is what I meant. Sorry, I'm all busy over here making controversial statements in my safe space and I just watched eleventy Star Trek things in a week

[Wryan]

Kirk is the guy I want on my side during a bar fight.

Picard is the guy I want showing up on my side during the subsequent trial.

HE. IS. SO. GUILTY!

[Grouchy]

Ok you guys talked me into it, I'm showing Wrath of Khan on my film club on Sunday.

Damn, I keep forgetting to notify Madman and Duke.

[Dukefrukem]

Ok you guys talked me into it, I'm showing Wrath of Khan on my film club on Sunday.

Damn, I keep forgetting to notify Madman and Duke.

I get automated alerts when you go live.

[Skitch]

I get automated alerts when you go live.

How do we set that up?

[Dukefrukem]

How do we set that up?

The bell

[Skitch]

Oh its on youtube? Page link?