View Poll Results: BLACK PANTHER

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Thread: Black Panther (Ryan Coogler)

  1. #1
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Black Panther (Ryan Coogler)

    Last edited by Henry Gale; 02-13-2018 at 04:29 AM.
    Last 11 things I really enjoyed:

    Speed Racer (Wachowski/Wachowski, 2008)
    Safe (Haynes, 1995)
    South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut (Parker, 1999)
    Beastie Boys Story (Jonze, 2020)
    Bad Trip (Sakurai, 2020)
    What's Up Doc? (Bogdanovich, 1972)
    Diva (Beineix, 1981)
    Delicatessen (Caro/Jeunet, 1991)
    The Hunger (Scott, 1983)
    Pineapple Express (Green, 2008)
    Chungking Express (Wong, 1994)

  2. #2
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    It wasn't until the final battle section that it really came back to me that this was an MCU movie. And I really like MCU movies (and this movie's finale)! But before that more typically-assembled portion, it just sings in such a different way. With Coogler's creative voice, with its lush colour, breathtakingly ornate design and varied textures, all filtered through Morrison's cinematography, Goransson luscious, versatile score (with bits of Kendrick's curated soundtrack sprinkled in, particularly awesomely propulsive in the Busan section of it) and with the endless storytelling flourishes unique to this sort of massive movie that just make it feel so fearless and saturated in the beauty of the culture it pulls from, perfectly reconfigured to broadcast as swaggering, pointed fantasy. It's just such exciting and moving stuff for so many reasons, often at once.

    There's only so many good things I can say before I fall asleep tonight, but also so ahead of its release, and in general as a white guy who largely grew up in suburban Toronto, I just think it'll be more gratifying to delve into story elements more interestingly once spoilers aren't a fear, but there's also going to be so much conversation about the movie that I know others will be able to potently connect to and articulate more effectively than me that I look forward to hearing and seeing permeate the culture even more than it already has. For now I'll just sit back in awe and glee.

    It's a beautiful piece of work. I can't wait for it to take over the world and become what it deserves to for this generation, in the now, both for those older who've been waiting for something like it their whole lives, and the children who are now lucky enough to grow up with it.
    Last 11 things I really enjoyed:

    Speed Racer (Wachowski/Wachowski, 2008)
    Safe (Haynes, 1995)
    South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut (Parker, 1999)
    Beastie Boys Story (Jonze, 2020)
    Bad Trip (Sakurai, 2020)
    What's Up Doc? (Bogdanovich, 1972)
    Diva (Beineix, 1981)
    Delicatessen (Caro/Jeunet, 1991)
    The Hunger (Scott, 1983)
    Pineapple Express (Green, 2008)
    Chungking Express (Wong, 1994)

  3. #3
    Since 1929 Morris Schæffer's Avatar
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    Perhaps I'm not the target audience for this. I knew when I had seen the trailer, it was just going to be more of the same. Don't care that it's the first Black superhero movie, just as I didn't care that Wonder Woman was the first major superhero flick with a woman at the center. There are definitely some worthy themes in this movie, but the whole thing is just crazily devoid of something genuine, a kernel of power, emotional pull, an action scene that really thrills and they certainly do their darndest to make every word they say come across as the most important thing ever. Sometimes I think these things are outside the reach of Marvel movies. Might as well amp up the comedy like they did with Thor: Ragnarok. I didn't like the design of Wakanda, it didn't strike me as genuine Africa, but more like a garish, over-designed approximation of the real thing.

    By the time there were stampeding, armor-plated rhinos charging across the battlefield I had well and truly switched off. Completely unengaging large scale battles, it reminded me of the finale of The Phantom Menace although some of the earlier action scenes were far more palatable. I liked Serkis' Ulysses, he brought some crazy, over-the-top energy to it.

    It's colossally difficult to not burst into crazy laughter while reading Henry Gale's last sentence. That finale line feels so over-the-top glowing that it virtually reads as sarcasm to me.

    Sorry Henry, I mean no disrespect.
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  4. #4
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Morris Schæffer (view post)
    Perhaps I'm not the target audience for this. I knew when I had seen the trailer, it was just going to be more of the same. Don't care that it's the first Black superhero movie, just as I didn't care that Wonder Woman was the first major superhero flick with a woman at the center. There are definitely some worthy themes in this movie, but the whole thing is just crazily devoid of something genuine, a kernel of power, emotional pull, an action scene that really thrills and they certainly do their darndest to make every word they say come across as the most important thing ever.

    [...]

    I didn't like the design of Wakanda, it didn't strike me as genuine Africa, but more like a garish, over-designed approximation of the real thing.
    I meeeeeeeean.. I'm sorry we didn't see the same movie? At the end of the day I'm elated that I got to have the experience of being in a packed IMAX theatre which (even after an exhaustive live Q&A stream and then technical difficulties that delayed the start of the movie) had such a palpable, sometimes audible emotional hum throughout that helped the film feel all that more vivid and potent with every beat. It felt like the part of my stomach that stress would put it in knots, the energy in that room instead had it in a warm, comforting, healing grip of sorts that carried me through it in a deeply fun bliss. It was an awesome experience for me, again, even as someone who's never had any trouble seeing stories on screen that felt like my own or had any shortage of aspirational fantasies that put people who looked like me into the roles of world-saving heroes in my life. So that's what I mean that I can only imagine how much more profoundly moving it has the potential to be for those who've never had the sort of joyful catharsis of seeing the such celebratory imagery and unfiltered cultural spirit of their own people with such aspirational material on the advantageous scale that this film provides.

    I've seen some mild chatter from some about how, okay, maybe Black Panther isn't truly the first superhero movie with a black character front and center. But even if that's technically true, I think it needs to be pointed out that all of those past examples of black comic heroes have always, first of all, not always been for kids, which reduces their audience and impact significantly, but also as characters, they've been been burdened and broken in some way, or had some monstrous element they've had to battle externally that hindered their pride and internally-perceived heroism. Blade is a vampire caught between two worlds, Cyborg is a reclusive robotic-hybrid who's had his previous life taken away from him and now finds himself fighting with his new abilities, Spawn is torn apart by the grips of Hell, Steel was cursed to be in a film no one ever saw.

    But T'Challa is a king.

    And not only that, he's compassionate and loyal, and he's an absolute badass of a fighter who Tony Stark and James Bond wish they swagger and resources of, if only they knew what they were missing out on to then envy. Wakanda creates a beautiful sense of an Earth where a section of the world where all humanity began that has so long been exploited and ignored actually has the capacity to possess the most advanced and powerful society in the world. There's a legion of stunning role model characters there, but even just taking T'Challa, with all his understanable inner conflict, he's an aspiration superhero figure no matter who you are, but imagine on top of that if he also filled the void of echoing the attributes of someone you see in the mirror every day the way nearly every other major big-screen hero never quite could.

    It's not overtly about the politics of it. Little kids don't know or care about the intricacies of why the world is the way it is. They look to things like animation and superhero media because it's a fantastical enhancement and elevation of what they see on an everyday basis. The way young girls now dress up as Wonder Woman for Halloween and wear clothes with her emblem the rest of the year because in some small way makes them feel happier and even stronger, and reminds them of her and there being no obstacle she can't overcome, Black Panther now blows open that sort of avenue for black youth and even those raising them, and needless to say with the world the way it often is that they're a demographic who often need to have those sort of inspirational figures and role models the most, mythical or not.

    So that's what I mean by it taking over the world and being moved by that. If and when it soon becomes a movie everyone sees and makes every possible dollar at the box office, there'll no longer any way for those in charge who often keep things so white and in such outmoded cultural formation to ever be able to reasonably deny the power of what happens when those notions are upended. It'll no longer be a movie, it'll be the thing that helped officially blow open a door that can never be closed again. The film, the soundtrack, the clothes, all the imagery, the emotion it all conjures, the pride of spreading the influence of those elements beyond this, and it's the impact that'll surely have long after these movies are done with. It doesn't have to be for everyone, but it will absolutely be for some people more than anything ever has before.
    Last 11 things I really enjoyed:

    Speed Racer (Wachowski/Wachowski, 2008)
    Safe (Haynes, 1995)
    South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut (Parker, 1999)
    Beastie Boys Story (Jonze, 2020)
    Bad Trip (Sakurai, 2020)
    What's Up Doc? (Bogdanovich, 1972)
    Diva (Beineix, 1981)
    Delicatessen (Caro/Jeunet, 1991)
    The Hunger (Scott, 1983)
    Pineapple Express (Green, 2008)
    Chungking Express (Wong, 1994)

  5. #5
    By far my least favorite MCU movie yet. From a story and technical viewpoint, this is stultifying. So many great actors wasted.
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  6. #6
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    I have no opinion of the movie yet, but Henry, remember, it's the MCU. Dissension is the minority.

  7. #7
    Since 1929 Morris Schæffer's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Henry Gale (view post)
    It's not overtly about the politics of it. Little kids don't know or care about the intricacies of why the world is the way it is. They look to things like animation and superhero media because it's a fantastical enhancement and elevation of what they see on an everyday basis. The way young girls now dress up as Wonder Woman for Halloween and wear clothes with her emblem the rest of the year because in some small way makes them feel happier and even stronger, and reminds them of her and there being no obstacle she can't overcome, Black Panther now blows open that sort of avenue for black youth and even those raising them, and needless to say with the world the way it often is that they're a demographic who often need to have those sort of inspirational figures and role models the most, mythical or not.
    If a movie does that, I cannot dislike it too strongly, but I cannot give a movie a positive review based on any supposed impact it might have on our world's youth. If I had seen Black Panther at the age of 10 I'm sure it would have been the greatest thing ever. So I think that argument is flawed.
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  8. #8
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    By far my least favorite MCU movie yet. From a story and technical viewpoint, this is stultifying. So many great actors wasted.
    Is there any humor in the film?
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    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
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  9. #9
    Since 1929 Morris Schæffer's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    Is there any humor in the film?
    There is. I liked those moments, but it doesn't commit to it fully like with Thor Ragnarok. Fine, so they went with a different angle, it's not the same type of movie, I can understand that, but I wanted more. It's just too difficult to take seriously as drama, as something, which according to Henry, will be a beacon of hope for generations to come and be remembered for all eternity.

    I understand that he saw what he did, I'm sure millions of others will too, the reviews are too stellar to simply ignore, but I was unmoved, unthrilled, and for portions of it unengaged.
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  10. #10
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    If there's humor in the movie, it's not worse than the Incredible Hulk (which is humorless).
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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  11. #11
    Kung Fu Hippie Watashi's Avatar
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    I will never understand why trans continues to watch the Marvel films opening week.

    It’s one of life’s biggest mysteries.
    Sure why not?

    STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI (Rian Johnson) - 9
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  12. #12
    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    Is there any humor in the film?
    Some, but it's no Thor Ragnarok.
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  13. #13
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    If there's humor in the movie, it's not worse than the Incredible Hulk (which is humorless).
    I'll say that as much as there are funny bits (particularly with M'Baku and Shuri), it's probably the Marvel Studios film that feels the less of a need to rely on jokes at a consistent pace, especially to seemingly relieve tension and keep things light overall. Coogler uses the fairly standard structural framework of most Marvel movies, but with in it he really indulges in the drama and tragedy of things when it wants to (and even with characters you wouldn't expect) more than usual, and as a result it may be their least overtly comedic since... I dunno, I guess the Captain America movies go for jokes the least of any series in the MCU? So maybe Civil War.
    Last 11 things I really enjoyed:

    Speed Racer (Wachowski/Wachowski, 2008)
    Safe (Haynes, 1995)
    South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut (Parker, 1999)
    Beastie Boys Story (Jonze, 2020)
    Bad Trip (Sakurai, 2020)
    What's Up Doc? (Bogdanovich, 1972)
    Diva (Beineix, 1981)
    Delicatessen (Caro/Jeunet, 1991)
    The Hunger (Scott, 1983)
    Pineapple Express (Green, 2008)
    Chungking Express (Wong, 1994)

  14. #14
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    Third favorite MCU, after Civil War and first Avengers (and finally the first solo superhero outing to break my lot-of-heroes-make-these-things-more-interesting streak of the studio preference). More thoughts later, but just want to note that hearing Lupita Nyong'o playfully speak in Korean in such a kick for me.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  15. #15
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

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  16. #16
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Um, okay? A screenshot of a bad tweet from someone with an incessant feed (having so many tweets that my app wouldn't even let me scroll to the point of that tweet posted two days ago) that in only the last day seems to also include transphobic nonsense?

    The article simply points out that this is Marvel Studio's second movie in the row where they've filmed character moments that would've done wonders to show they were actually representing lesbian or bisexual characters not just for the first time in nearly 20 films, but also on a large scale in the mainstream beyond the small fraction they currently are (and not to mention an even smaller sliver of a percentage with women of colour, which both Ragnarok and Panther would've depicted), but subsequently chose to delete those scenes. And that for a film like Black Panther, with how much inclusivity and representation that it already exhibits, it would've simply been a big, encouraging opportunity for that. Feige has publicly stated that's a conscious next step, but it could've easily already happened twice in only the last few months.

    So, yeah, not sure what your point was meant to be there.
    Last 11 things I really enjoyed:

    Speed Racer (Wachowski/Wachowski, 2008)
    Safe (Haynes, 1995)
    South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut (Parker, 1999)
    Beastie Boys Story (Jonze, 2020)
    Bad Trip (Sakurai, 2020)
    What's Up Doc? (Bogdanovich, 1972)
    Diva (Beineix, 1981)
    Delicatessen (Caro/Jeunet, 1991)
    The Hunger (Scott, 1983)
    Pineapple Express (Green, 2008)
    Chungking Express (Wong, 1994)

  17. #17
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    My favorite solo superhero outing from the studio since Thor (a qualifier that gets Guardians of the Galaxy out of the way), which happens to parallel this in a lot of ways that emphasize why MCU's latest is so much better. Each film's royal intrigue faintly has a Shakespearean sweep, tying closely to its complex villain, that builds to a stirring, emotional climax. But Black Panther has a singular focus in storyline and aesthetics, without the other one's need to halve into its earth stuff (even if I enjoyed that quite a bit). And both aspects have thrillingly resonant, real-world political weight woven tightly into their DNA, making each royal ritual, plot turn, character struggle, and fight scene have an added heft of tactile world-building and heavy stakes. I liked Civil War and Winter Soldier a lot, but mostly for their stories, while recognizing that their much-praised "politics point" imports are kind of wishy-washy. Not so here.

    None of this is more apparent than in Michael B. Jordan's electrifying performance (even if maybe too strategically hidden in the first half), whose rage and motivation are born out of the tightly written combination of real history and comic-book fiction. He is thus heightened into a wrenching portrayal of understandable, circumstance-born evil that becomes the pivot/statement of the whole film. Never thought the first time I come closest to tears in an MCU film will be because of its villain. And that makes a post-credit scene, the first one here that is a direct effect from his ideology and also an end-point to the whole film's arc, absolutely necessary for once. 8.5/10
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  18. #18
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    Also, I am far from knowledgeable about this topic (so feel free to correct me on anything), but interesting to see that the first two times Marvel has non-white directors, colonialism is tackled head-on in developing the villains, especially as they pertain to the directors' backgroud. As background story for Hela, getting shunned asides for post-colonial mythmaking in Ragnarok. And as almost the main conflict, to be the goal for reversal of that balance, in Black Panther here.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  19. #19
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    Since I seem to haven't done this in Ragnarok thread...

    Captain America: Civil War (2016)
    The Avengers (2012)
    Black Panther (2018)
    Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015)
    Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)
    Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014)
    Thor (2011)
    Iron Man 3 (2013)
    Thor: Ragnarok (2017)
    Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (2017)
    Iron Man (2008)
    Spider-Man: Homecoming (2017)
    Doctor Strange (2016)
    Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)
    Iron Man 2 (2010)
    Ant-Man (2015)
    The Incredible Hulk (2008)
    Thor: The Dark World (2013)
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  20. #20
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Henry Gale (view post)
    Um, okay? A screenshot of a bad tweet from someone with an incessant feed (having so many tweets that my app wouldn't even let me scroll to the point of that tweet posted two days ago) that in only the last day seems to also include transphobic nonsense?

    The article simply points out that this is Marvel Studio's second movie in the row where they've filmed character moments that would've done wonders to show they were actually representing lesbian or bisexual characters not just for the first time in nearly 20 films, but also on a large scale in the mainstream beyond the small fraction they currently are (and not to mention an even smaller sliver of a percentage with women of colour, which both Ragnarok and Panther would've depicted), but subsequently chose to delete those scenes. And that for a film like Black Panther, with how much inclusivity and representation that it already exhibits, it would've simply been a big, encouraging opportunity for that. Feige has publicly stated that's a conscious next step, but it could've easily already happened twice in only the last few months.

    So, yeah, not sure what your point was meant to be there.

    I’m not on twitter so I have no idea who this person is, nor did I know they are apparently annoying.

    Wasn’t making a point. Just laughed at the stupid comment by the twitter user.
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  21. #21
    Second star to the right [ETM]'s Avatar
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    I thought this was pretty damn awesome. The film is pretty political, and obviously, intentionally so, and I've already seen hate on that basis from close friends who saw it with us. Let's just say I'm probably never going to a movie with them again. I love the design, the direction (save for some too-tight closeup fights which almost never look right in 3D) and pretty much all of the performances. The music was excellent, even Lamar's stuff that is heard throughout is tolerable (I'm not exactly a fan). As I was watching, I kept thinking about all the fuming, stupid rage and indifference it would induce in all kinds of people, and all I could say was "You go for it, Coogler". If you get a chance to do these things in a comic book tentpole, go for it all the way.

  22. #22
    Rankings:

    Guardians of the Galaxy - 69
    The Avengers - 68
    Ant-Man - 67
    Thor: Ragnarok - 66
    Captain America: The Winter Soldier - 64
    Iron Man 3 - 64
    Spider-Man: Homecoming - 64
    Captain America: The First Avenger - 64
    Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 - 64
    Iron Man 2 - 58
    Doctor Strange - 58
    Captain America: Civil War - 56
    Iron Man - 55
    Avengers: Age of Ultron - 55
    The Incredible Hulk - 55
    Thor - 51
    Black Panther - 40

    Not seen:

    Thor 2

    I have still not seen any of these films more than once. I have the feeling many of them would drop in my estimation.
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  23. #23
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    37,786
    This was the most low key super hero movie ever. It's funny that I made fun of that one negative review that said there needed to be more bad guy fighting, but that's kind of what I was thinking the entire time. And I take back what I said before about Thor 3 having the best cast. This movie is far superior. Michael B Jordan kills it. Letitia Wright is a stand out. (And I think I'm in love with her) and Andy Serkis was also excellent. More later as I let it sit in, rankings tomorrow.
    Twitch / Youtube / Film Diary

    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  24. #24
    Producer
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    2,936
    Oh yeah, in any other MCU film Serkis would probably be noted as one of the studio's better villains, but here he's overshadowed by Michael B. Jordan, who's rightfully praised. He's still so good though; I haven't expected Serkis to be such a fun secondary villain here, way more deliciously unhinged than his turn in Age of Ultron. Two good villains in one Marvel film, who would have thought that? (Now need Serkis to act more out of his (excellent) mocap work as well)
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  25. #25
    Since 1929 Morris Schæffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    11,030
    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    This was the most low key super hero movie ever.
    How do you define low key? To me BP felt loaded with crazy action, chases, mass battle scenes, repeat scenes of two dudes challenging each other etc...

    Isn't The Dark Knight more low-key? CA: Winter Soldier?
    [+] closer to next rating / [-] closer to previous rating

    • Dark (S3) ✦✦✦½ [-]
    • Fall (Mann, 2022) ✦✦✦½ [-]
    • Ms. Marvel (S1) ✦½ [+]
    • Dark (S2) ✦✦✦✦
    • Moon Knight (S1) ✦✦½ [-]
    • Get Carter (Hodges, 1971) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • Prey (Trachtenberg, 2022) ✦✦✦ [-]
    • Black Bird (S1) ✦✦✦✦
    • Better Call Saul (S6) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • Halo (S1) ✦✦✦ [-]
    • Slow Horses (S1) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • H4Z4RD (Govaerts, 2022/BE) ✦✦½ [-]
    • Gangs of London (S1) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • We Own This City (S1) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • Thor: Love and Thunder (Waititi, 2022) ✦✦ [+]


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