Black Panther (Ryan Coogler)

[transmogrifier]

How do you define low key? To me BP felt loaded with crazy action, chases, mass battle scenes, repeat scenes of two dudes challenging each other etc...

Isn't The Dark Knight more low-key? CA: Winter Soldier?

Could be code for "boring", because it certainly was that.

[[ETM]]

Or not, in this reality.

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[Dukefrukem]

How do you define low key? To me BP felt loaded with crazy action, chases, mass battle scenes, repeat scenes of two dudes challenging each other etc...

Isn't The Dark Knight more low-key? CA: Winter Soldier?

No. There's two action set pieces. The car chase and the ending. Hardly crazy action.

[Dukefrukem]

Early reports are saying this could actually open over $200+. Mind boggling numbers if it beats Age of Ultron.

No doubt they'll get a trilogy of these characters.

[transmogrifier]

No doubt they'll get a trilogy of these characters.

They could if they find an interesting plot and give them something to do that doesn't involve reiterating the theme of the film at length every chance they get. The three main female characters have potential, but this film doesn't give them much room to grow or make a meaningful impression beyond what the charismatic actors can wring from it.

[transmogrifier]

Or not, in this reality.

I need my movies to do more than just play to my political beliefs and my interest in seeing a diversity of visions on screen. This thing is glacially paced and poorly constructed; all heart, no blood.

[Dukefrukem]

Trans is right. This isn't the most engaging super hero film. I enjoyed the world building here, but this isn't exactly something I'm excited to watch again.

[Dukefrukem]

1. The Avengers 2012 ★★★★★
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 2014 ★★★★★
3. Avengers: Age of Ultron 2015 ★★★★½
4. Thor: Ragnarok 2017 ★★★★½
5. Spider-Man: Homecoming 2017 ★★★★½
6. Captain America: Civil War 2016 ★★★★½
7. Guardians of the Galaxy 2014 ★★★★½
8. Iron Man 2008 ★★★★
9. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 2017 ★★★★
10. Ant-Man 2015 ★★★★
11. Doctor Strange 2016 ★★★★
12. Iron Man 3 2013 ★★★★
13. Captain America: The First Avenger 2011★★★½
14. Thor 2011 ★★★½
15. Black Panther ★★★
16. Iron Man 2 2010 ★★
17. Thor: The Dark World 2013 ★★
18. The Incredible Hulk 2008 negative 300 stars

[Morris Schæffer]

No. There's two action set pieces. The car chase and the ending. Hardly crazy action.

The casino? It's a lot of numbing spectacle, over the top. Maybe that makes it worse for me.

[[ETM]]

I need my movies to do more than just play to my political beliefs and my interest in seeing a diversity of visions on screen. This thing is glacially paced and poorly constructed; all heart, no blood.

I don't hold big budget comic book blockbusters to the same standards as "regular" films. I'm well aware of the limitations and expectations imposed on pretty much everyone involved, and for the price of 4-5 Euros a pop, I'll take a movie that is made and shown over some hypothetical ideal, if it's close enough to it in most of the categories. Being a visual artist, I really enjoyed the design of the entire movie in every aspect; I got a real kick out of watching young black actors I like get some well deserved spotlight; I'm a fan of Goransson's mix of orchestral and electronic music; I mean, I'm a simple man who's seen the previous films and even read the comic, and I cared about the characters, their place in the story and I was eager to see how it will end up within the larger fabric of the MCU. I was never bored. I'll see more MCU films like this if they make them.

[Dukefrukem]

The casino? It's a lot of numbing spectacle, over the top. Maybe that makes it worse for me.

The Casino is the start of the car chase. Though I do remember there was some clever editing around Okoye's fight scene that I remember being impressive.

[Watashi]

Good lord this movie is phenomenal. Finally a MCU film with a pulse and an identity that's not tied down to a bigger thread. Coogler brings the same energy and attitude from his previous films into Wakanda and everything from the colors and vibrant cast is enthralling. Also, for the first time since Thor, we actually have a villain that actually features complexity and grounded in real social issues rather than stock "rule the world" mentality.

The Panther on Panther climax is a bit clumsy, but everything else is wonderful.

[Watashi]

[Dukefrukem]

Early reports are saying this could actually open over $200+. Mind boggling numbers if it beats Age of Ultron.

No doubt they'll get a trilogy of these characters.

Now they're saying $205. If people thought Wonder Woman was a wake up call...

[ledfloyd]

I went to the noon matinee showing of this, and the theater was packed. I ended up about four rows back from the screen in a large auditorium. A little girl walking in in a dashiki and T'Challa mask made my day.

I enjoyed this a lot, even if I think its politics are a bit troubling (The "villain" is a black American man who wants to use Wakanda's technology to fight white supremacy around the globe? His father gets killed for wanting to share the wealth to end mass incarceration? It's hard not to read the film as pro-segregaton). It's funny that someone complained about the lack of jokes. When it did try for humor, I thought it often felt out of place. But as a long-time reader of comics, I really enjoyed seeing the world and culture of Wakanda so fully realized. The score and cinematography both aid in the overall feeling.

And what a cast. Everyone is great.

I think the best Marvel movies (Avengers, Guardians 1, Civil War, maybe Ragnarok) feature a group of heroes who can play off one another, this might be the best the studio has done with a solo outing. Ant Man and Winter Soldier are its only competition. You get the sense that they backed off and allowed Coogler to fully realize his vision.

He's been pretty impressive thus far in his career. I would like to see him go back and do something more reserved like Fruitvale Station next. It annoys me that he's (a year) younger than me.

[Mal]

This is pretty spectacular and its probably my favorite Marvel via Disney film. The cast is universally great and the scenery is eye-popping- there's something new around every corner and I'm stoked to see it again.

[Dukefrukem]

Now they're saying $205. If people thought Wonder Woman was a wake up call...

$218, largest opening ever in Feb/MCU/

[dreamdead]

This is... fine. I love what the film's success means and represents, but it's just a bit too beholden to the Marvel aesthetic, even though some of the imagery or ideas make it more evocative.

Daniel Kaluuya's W'Kabi is the epitome of the problem, where ideological differences are just scrubbed away, so that his betrayal of T'Challa in favor of Killmonger just doesn't resonate after 20+ years of friendship. Sure, the latter delivers Klaue's body to him, but it just doesn't offer the complexity. And Killmonger shifts a little too quickly at the finale, moving from self-righteousness demagogue to morally complex without the necessary shading. In brief, I rather agree with ledfloyd's critique of the ideological confusion that this film is playing with.

And while it's beautiful to look at, some of the many fights (car chase and the first king fight) are cut in ways that deny actual heightened tension. This one, though, isn't on Coogler so much as just a critique of the state of contemporary action cutting, which gets everyone into a shot and then has to stagger their close-ups in delays.

[Morris Schæffer]

And while it's beautiful to look at, some of the many fights (car chase and the first king fight) are cut in ways that deny actual heightened tension. This one, though, isn't on Coogler so much as just a critique of the state of contemporary action cutting, which gets everyone into a shot and then has to stagger their close-ups in delays.

Superhero action is by default more elaborate (swap with preposterous if need be) than regular action so I can imagine this could be an extra challenge for a director to ensure everything is coherent when you've got guys walking up the side of buildings and whatnot. Although I'm not sure why you say it is not on Coogler when, say, a fight scene is filmed too up-close. For the heaps of praise thrown upon this film and the helmer, I find it hard to reconcile what you said with my own personal feeling, namely that it's perfectly ok for this to be on him.

Although the movie is far from an incoherent mess.

[Wryan]

I enjoyed it. Thought the humor worked fine, for the most part. Loved the actors. Appreciated the extra shading given to Whitaker and Winston Duke and Sterling K. Brown. Found Letitia Wright totally adorable. Not sure Killmonger's motivations are entirely sound--he really studied and trained his entire life to kill T'Challa specifically? Even though he had nothing to do with his "creation" and only just became king recently? The broader desire for Wakanda's resources and power are better-sketched. I liked that there aren't as many typical action scenes. The challenge fights are action scenes, essentially--mileage varies on impact, tho. Lupita nearly got Amy Adams-ed until the end. The effects work got real wonky at the end there, otherwise nifty visuals and design.

Small point, but after the silent power displayed by Florence Kasumba in Civil War, it was sort of sad to see her pushed into the background and have her badassery transmuted into Danai Gurira's general, tho I did like her a lot too.

EDIT: Another small point, but I love the actor who played T'Challa's father (old version), and I'm very glad he got more to do after such a brief appearance in CW. His pronouncement about fathers preparing their sons resonated strongly with me.

[Ezee E]

This was very good, and possibly one of my favorite out of the MCU movies, not that this is saying much.

I liked it a lot, because it really is its own entity. No plug-ins of other Avengers for forced reasons. No gems. And while there is sort of a "world-ending" scenario, it's not over-blown special effects. Plus, there's an actual villain with understandable motives. Although still a bit questionable on his path, but I'll pick my battles here.

The world building may be a little long, but I hope this means they can just get right into it in the future assuming a sequel will be in the works. I'll take world-building over the origin story anyday. Plus, I knew nothing about Black Panther in the comics except that he merely existed, so kind of cool to get all of this figured out.

I dug the set pieces. There was a beginning, middle, and end to them... Casino being my favorite really, since it had the least of the special effects. Could've done without the CGI rhinos.

[Ezee E]

What are some other Black Panther villains for down the road that would be good to this world? I'd like to look them up.

[Pop Trash]

This is... fine. I love what the film's success means and represents, but it's just a bit too beholden to the Marvel aesthetic, even though some of the imagery or ideas make it more evocative.

Daniel Kaluuya's W'Kabi is the epitome of the problem, where ideological differences are just scrubbed away, so that his betrayal of T'Challa in favor of Killmonger just doesn't resonate after 20+ years of friendship. Sure, the latter delivers Klaue's body to him, but it just doesn't offer the complexity. And Killmonger shifts a little too quickly at the finale, moving from self-righteousness demagogue to morally complex without the necessary shading. In brief, I rather agree with ledfloyd's critique of the ideological confusion that this film is playing with.

And while it's beautiful to look at, some of the many fights (car chase and the first king fight) are cut in ways that deny actual heightened tension. This one, though, isn't on Coogler so much as just a critique of the state of contemporary action cutting, which gets everyone into a shot and then has to stagger their close-ups in delays.

Agree with all this. What's weird is that Creed's (still Coogler's best film) fight scenes are really well choreographed and shot, often in very long takes. I feel like this got put into Marvel's action editing blender and Coogler couldn't really do much.

I loved the costumes (early frontrunner for best costume Oscar) especially since they had to convey a mix of Afro-futurism, historical African garb, and contemporary African garb + superhero / villain outfits. Also really dug the cinematography, world building / production design, and music.

Screenplay / story is a little lacking. I kept fantasizing a movie about Killmonger and how interesting that would be w/ more Oakland stuff (I'm biased since I live in Oaktown), and Killmonger becoming "woke" and later a more organic conflict / relationship between him and T'Challa. As it stands, I guess I should be happy Coogler was able to smuggle political stuff into a giant Marvel movie at all, but it's not quite enough for my taste.

[DavidSeven]

There are definitely glimpses of vision here, more than you'll find in other Marvel films. The film is also mercifully restrained on jokes. In the end, however, Coogler is still beholden to the Marvel aesthetic, and the film comes with a lot of the same old flaws. This stuff is just way too reliant on digital world-building. The quality of "cinema" is lacking as a result. The film feels most immediate in tangible locations -- the streets of Oakland, a Museum heist, etc. -- but there just isn't enough of that here. Again, too much deference to Marvel's house team to build the same-old, boring, and overly digitized set pieces.

I was also surprised that the music didn't feel like a bigger "character" in the film, as suggested by the marketing campaign. I thought Coogler would have carte blanche here, but it felt like the same bland Marvel scoring to me, with some specific cultural infusions. Certainly, the music was more distinctive here than other MCU films, but it felt like a half-measure, at most.

Wonderful cast of characters, however. Casting and character building is easily the film's greatest strength. As strange as it sounds, Michael B. Jordan feels like the weakest link in a large ensemble. He has the physical presence of a true movie star, but "menace" isn't his wheelhouse and this shortcoming is only amplified with some unnecessary scene-chewing. By and large though, this film has my favorite set of characters in the entire universe.

[Ezee E]

There are definitely glimpses of vision here, more than you'll find in other Marvel films. The film is also mercifully restrained on jokes. In the end, however, Coogler is still beholden to the Marvel aesthetic, and the film comes with a lot of the same old flaws. This stuff is just way too reliant on digital world-building. The quality of "cinema" is lacking as a result. The film feels most immediate in tangible locations -- the streets of Oakland, a Museum heist, etc. -- but there just isn't enough of that here. Again, too much deference to Marvel's house team to build the same-old, boring, and overly digitized set pieces.

I was also surprised that the music didn't feel like a bigger "character" in the film, as suggested by the marketing campaign. I thought Coogler would have carte blanche here, but it felt like the same bland Marvel scoring to me, with some specific cultural infusions. Certainly, the music was more distinctive here than other MCU films, but it felt like a half-measure, at most.

Wonderful cast of characters, however. Casting and character building is easily the film's greatest strength. As strange as it sounds, Michael B. Jordan feels like the weakest link in a large ensemble. He has the physical presence of a true movie star, but "menace" isn't his wheelhouse and this shortcoming is only amplified with some unnecessary scene-chewing. By and large though, this film has my favorite set of characters in the entire universe.

I was disappointed to not recognize any of the Kendrick Lamar tracks in this. They were there right??