After letting it digest for several days and thinking about it non-stop...I’ve flip flopped.
This was not very good.
I don’t hate it as vehemently as many others do. In fact I don’t HATE it at all. It’s just incredibly frustrating.
I would call this the “Prometheus of Star Wars movies” - filled to the brim with great concepts and ideas, but ultimately fails due to awful, inconsistent, illogical writing.
Coming out of the theatre I would have given this a 7/10. I’m now in the...ehhh...maybe a 5?
Last edited by megladon8; 12-30-2017 at 07:52 PM.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
The more I think about it the better it gets.
Same. After feeling utterly exhausted with this goddamn franchise for the past couple years, I feel no-shit invigorated.Quoting Skitch (view post)
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+1 although with RJ's departure, and Solo looking like a disaster, I don't have any expectations going forward.
The severed arm perfectly acquitted itself, because of the simplicity of its wishes and its total lack of doubt.
I was watching clips of Rogue One the other day. And THAT gets better on reflection.
To those whose love keeps growing, do the massive plotting and story telling problems not phase you?
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
The only thing that bothers me is Finn's run at suicide and the subsequent scene that immediately follows. Doesn't make sense that he would be a coward in one scene and all of a sudden decide to be a hero in the next.(in his mind)
There is so much utter nonsense in this movie and the more I think about it the worse it gets.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
Like what?
Why didn’t Laura Dern tell Poe and everyone her plan right from the get go? It would have saved so many lives and so much confusion (especially when she is lecturing Poe for doing something stupid that cost lives and caused confusion).
Why didn’t Luke tell the group in the cave that they needed to leave (and how to get out)? The second the First Order realized Luke wasn’t really there they would have just destroyed the resistance easily. It is sheer dumbass luck that a crystal fox showed them how to get out.
Why was that casino planet necessary at all? It added nothing to the themes, characters or story. You could literally lift that sequence out (and Del Toro’s whole character) and the entire movie would be unchanged. Plus it had some godawful CGI.
The Throne Room scene was amazing, except for Snoke’s death. Let me rewrite the dialogue:
SNOKE: I see inside Kylo Ren’s Brain! I see his whole brain! His entire brain! He can do nothing without me knowing because his brain is mine! I am in his brain and his brain has me in it! Every single part of his brain is seen by me and I know all that happens in his brain!
*Kylo Force-stabs Snoke with the lightsaber beside him*
SNOKE:EEK! Except that! I forgot to look at THAT part of his brain! Oh noooooo! I am dead.
And probably the most troublesome - Luke’s attempt (or at least thought of attempting) to kill Ben Solo in his sleep.
I spent a long time pondering this. I liked it at first. Tried to rationalize it. But the more I think about it, the more I realize...no, that’s terrible.
Luke, who saw the tiniest little smudge of good in vader and was willing to DIE to bring that out. Now he sees that here is evil in his own nephew and attempts to snuff the kid in his sleep?
No way. I don’t care that he change his mind. Luke wouldn’t have even gone in there.
Why wouldn’t he talk to Han and Leia? Hell, talk to BEN. Nope. Fuckin murder him in his sleep.
I feel that entire subplot and sequence was written as a means of providing adequate reasoning behind Kylo’s hatred of Luke and the Skywalker name, but was done without regard for anything else.
Which petty much sums up this entire film - a collection of scenes written with the purpose of furthering plot devices, without looking at how they affect the characters and scenes around them, and what came before and will come.
I love the idea of this grand meta Star Wars film forcing (no pun intended) fans to let go of the old and embrace the new. But it still needs to be written well.
Last edited by megladon8; 12-31-2017 at 02:21 PM.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
Why should she have to? Hes a subordinate. He should have stayed in his lane.
Maybe he didn't know? Why does he have to spell everything out for them?
It was a failed mission. I like that it failed. Its silly to think every mission is victorious. What it did add was putting Finn and Rose on the Star Destroyer to face Phasma and it led to that silent moment that happened next. There would've been no point to that moment if Poe didn't spark the secret mission. The slow chase would've just worked and the movie would've ended. That would've been boring.
Kylo has always been looking for someone to love him. Struggled with his dad so went to Luke. That went bad, so he went to Snoke. Then Snoke used him and sat there insulting him. It was his trouble with Luke all over again. Kylo said "Well fuck you."
But look at all the damage Vader did before he was redeemed. The entire galaxy was enslaved. And in the end he still died. Why not skip the enslaved galaxy bit and end it?
Not just to Poe, to everyone.
There is absolutely ZERO reason why she should have been keeping it a secret. Not telling anyone didn’t help or accomplish anything.
We’re talking about the demise of the last people left in the Resistance. Now was not the time for Luke I be vague and “let them figure things out for themselves”.
They were going to go to the Star Destroyer anyways
If the entire reason to write a half hour subplot was to give reason to another subplot...that’s bad writing.
That’s fine, I wasn’t questioning motive.
My problem is how did Snoke not see what Kylo was doing? How did he not sense his betrayal?
Snoke has been established to be so freaking powerful with the force that he could act as a 3rd party to allow Rey and Kylo to physically see and touch each other from across the galaxy. He spouts off about how he knows every single corner of Kylo’s mind and how Kylo is an open book to him.
How did Kylo still kill him that way?
Because that’s fucked up.
We saw hints of Luke having this bit of Darkness in him in the OT, but murdering a child in their sleep is next level.
I cannot be convinced otherwise. There is no way he wouldn’t have approached Han or Leia before deciding to KILL THEIR CHILD.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
I'm genuinely confused by this continued confusion, not just from you, but from everyone who seemingly can't understand why people don't like this movie. I agree with meg's post entirely, but then, every single point he brought up has more or less already been brought up by a number of other people in this thread already. And they're the same points that pretty much everyone else all over the internet is also bringing up. They're all flaws that are glaring enough that everone is seeing them, and many aren't able to look past. So then, why the continued confusion?
Like I said before, maybe he didn't know what they should do. He was just doing what he could to help.
What? Why? I don't remember that.
Why didn't the Emperor sense Vader's? These Sith aren't omniscient. Hell, that's part of what Yoda has taught in his warnings about the dark side.
How did Vader just pick up the Emperor and chuck him?
His father killed rooms filled with kids. Of course its fucked up, but its nothing these movies haven't done before.
That was OT. This is next level.
Well...I guess theres not much point in discussing it then.
Maybe he wanted to spare them.
I'm can understand why people may not like it. What I don't understand is people upset with the direction the characters go and calling that "flaws" just because it didn't go the way you wanted it to go.
My post has nothing to do with anything in your post above. I was merely asking for supporting evidence and reasoning instead of drive by "it's not good" general statements like DDavis frequently does. It's annoying.
Plus Meg goes from liking it, to hating it in a matter of days. Red flags. How does one make that jump so quickly? What youtube video did he watch that swayed him so easily? Were none of these reasons in his head when he said the movie was "great"?
I'm generally curious about everything here and how one mind works. Also, this is a discussion forum.
See, just because you say things like this, doesn't make it true. It was very clearly explained that he was demoted. That is definitely ONE reason.
I have a response for every thing you laid out here, but this one stands out the most. Why didn't he say anything? Because it was clearly shown in the very next scene there was a way out by the crystal fox that you even answered your own question.
Weren't they also debating if they were being tracked through hyperspace or if there was a traitor among them? That would be a reason to keep it quiet.
That doesn’t answer the question.
Having a random animal show them the way out by chance in the next scene doesn’t forgive Luke’s not telling them what was going on or how to get out.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
Again, not just Poe.
There’s no reason why she should have kept it such a secret. None. It accomplished nothing.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
I don't think they're flaws because they didn't go a certain way. They're flaws because they're just generally speaking poorly or lazily written, as has been pointed out ad infinitum. And that's the big kicker here. When discussing the prequels, the big issue with them isn't necessarily their writing, but their questionable direction at times. Whereas this movie has the exact opposite problem, where the direction is mostly fine, but the writing is just shockingly poor. The film plays like they worked off a rushed first draft, and just skipped the step where they go back over the script and really fine tune it all and make sure that everything makes sense and isn't so flimsy. As a result, we got a movie filled with character inconsistencies, loads of filler, and loads of contrivances throughout, all of which are easily avoidable on the scripting stage with a simple editing phase.
A lot of people who love this movie keep bringing up its themes as a means of strength that help them overlook the movie's other flaws. Now imagine how much stronger those themes would've resonated with an all around tighter script to really elevate them and everything else around them. You can still more or less tell the same story without making everything feel so forced.
I just don't understand why you expect Luke to know these things or dues ex machina them from the situation.
This makes sense, and I apologize for jumping on you. Like I said, wasn't necessarily targeting you, but I have seen a lot of that sort of reaction I was talking about elsewhere, which has honestly grown to confuse me at this point. Your explanation makes plenty of sense though.
Even if it's possible to answer some of these questions with our own assumptions of the situation, the fact that we're even having to ask so many of these questions in the first place is the sign of a poor script. A more tightly written script would've left us questioning a lot less of this movie's logic.
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