Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson)

[Skitch]

Fuuuuuuuck yeah

[Irish]

"Best since the original trilogy" seems like an incredibly low bar, tho

[Pop Trash]

"Best since the original trilogy" seems like an incredibly low bar, tho

If I'm being honest and not clouded w/ my own nostalgia for Return of the Jedi -which was the first Star Wars I saw in the theater and one of the first movies period I even remember watching- I would say this is the best one since Empire. But what is Star Wars but childhood nostalgia? Ironically, the biggest theme of The Last Jedi is lighting the past on fire. Burn it down!

[Dukefrukem]

We need trans to check in...

[Dukefrukem]

Was in a story warsy feel so I replayed Jedi Knight this week. Was an awesome 90s throwback. I miss 1997.

[Skitch]

I already seen it!

[Dukefrukem]

I already seen it!

You watched me play live??

Edit: Wait I wanted this to be in the video game thread. How did this happen?

[Skitch]

You watched me play live??

Edit: Wait I wanted this to be in the video game thread. How did this happen?

No not live. But soon after. I was working

[Dukefrukem]

This is another "don't ask me why I did this" calculation like I did for X-Men Apocalypse.

At the end of the movie, the Resistance send out a bunch of V-4X-D Ski speeders towards the First Order.

It takes Finn 354 seconds to get within 50 feet of the canon before Rose decides to crash into him. (that's just under 6 minutes).

I researched the top speed of those speeders, which isn't fast. I guessed they are probably traveling 50 mph (80 kph) based on the wind and dust from that scene. No faster than driving your car on the highway it looks.

At that speed, with that time, the distance they traveled is just under 5 miles (4.916).

Minutes later, there's a scene showing Finn dragging Rose back from the crash into the base.

Lets just say he was able to walk 4 mph (the average human walking speed) while dragging her. it would have taken him 1 hour and 13 minutes to make it back to the base.

[Ezee E]

The power of editing!

[StuSmallz]

I've obviously had TLJ on the brain lately, and I have to say that, one criticism of it that I heard a lot that doesn't hold up is that Johnson's creative decisions for it felt like some sort of "middle finger" to what Abrams did with The Force Awakens, or even to the franchise as a whole, which makes little sense to me; for starters, when it comes to what TLJ did with [

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Luke's characterization, while I've gone into greater detail about this elsewhere, it bears repeating that everything Johnson did with his arc was a natural extension of what TFA already hinted at about him, since he was obviously living in exile nowhere near the frontlines for a reason. And, the same basic thing goes for the complaints about what the film did with Snoke, or with the revelation of Rey's parents, because with the former, people are baselessly assuming that there was supposed to be some sort of greater "mystery" to Snoke's identity to have another excuse to complain, when TFA established nothing of the sort about him (so why assume otherwise?), and with the latter, the only thing that TLJ did was merely resolve the mystery of who her parents were; how is that supposed to some sort of snubbing of Abrams "plan" for that sub-plot?

I mean, no one knows what JJ had planned for that detail (if he indeed had a plan at all), and it's easy to assume that the true identity of Rey's parents was supposed to be some sort of presumably big payoff, when JJ choose to establish so little of substance about that question in his film, since his writing style assumes that just randomly introducing mysteries is an intriguing storytelling device in and of itself. I mean, I think his films are generally entertaining, but he's definitely a better director than he is a writer.

]

[Dukefrukem]

It's been a while since I've seen both Force Awakens and TLJ but damn Stu I think you're really stretching things here.

I'll give the Luke arc a pass since there's basically nothing in the TFA until the very end about Luke's true intentions. But the whole middle finger to Snoke AND Kylo stood out immediately to me. JJ HEAVILY implied some clear linkage in the TFA (which was accepted as a tremendous eyeroll throughout the Star Wars fandom) especially with that montage of clips where Rey touches the lightsaber and was seeing visions of the Luke/Vader lightsaber fight hallway in Empire Strikes Back. Oh and btw, it was Luke's lightsaber that he dropped from that battle. Where the fuck did it come from?? And then of course Kylo smashing his helmet into a billion pieces was Johnson saying... "we don't need another Vader-wannabe here"

I can only hope there's some original ideas in whatever Star Wars future we have.

[Skitch]

I will not be drawn into another Last Jedi argument. I really will not.

[Ezee E]

The Mandalorian works for fan service and being original. Curious what the Obi-Wan show will do.

[StuSmallz]

It's been a while since I've seen both Force Awakens and TLJ but damn Stu I think you're really stretching things here. I'll give the Luke arc a pass since there's basically nothing in the TFA until the very end about Luke's true intentions. But the whole middle finger to Snoke AND Kylo stood out immediately to me. JJ HEAVILY implied some clear linkage in the TFA (which was accepted as a tremendous eyeroll throughout the Star Wars fandom) especially with that montage of clips where Rey touches the lightsaber and was seeing visions of the Luke/Vader lightsaber fight hallway in Empire Strikes Back. Oh and btw, it was Luke's lightsaber that he dropped from that battle. Where the fuck did it come from?? And then of course Kylo smashing his helmet into a billion pieces was Johnson saying... "we don't need another Vader-wannabe here"I can only hope there's some original ideas in whatever Star Wars future we have.

Okay, what about the portrayal of Snoke in TFA established there was supposed to be some big secret about his identity or his relationship to any other character? Because all I remember was an Emperor-wannabe who did or said nothing particularly tantalizing the whole film, and it feels like people are automatically assuming there was supposed to be some big revelation with him just because every Abrams story has to have at least one big "mystery box" in them, whether they need them or not, like with the "secret" of how Luke's saber ended up in Maz's place; it's like, why on Earth did that have to be a secret? It's like the assumption that Rey's vision was meant to imply some sort of connection between Kylo & Snoke, when the latter character was never seen (or even heard) in that scene, because when a storyteller is constantly planting mysteries everywhere just because he can, then you can read anything into the vaguest aspects of his work. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, "Luke, I am your father" was a bigger middle finger to established Star Wars canon than anything that Johnson did with The Last Jedi (although I guess that isn't supposed to count if it was Lucas giving his own story the finger...?).

[StuSmallz]

I will not be drawn into another Last Jedi argument. I really will not.

Aw come on Skitch, I could use the backup!

[transmogrifier]

Aw come on Skitch, I could use the backup!

This is a very pro-TLJ site. You're gonna be alright.

EDIT: You may want to take back that rep, because I'm certainly not one of those supporters I hate the movie.

[Dukefrukem]

Okay, what about the portrayal of Snoke in TFA established there was supposed to be some big secret about his identity or his relationship to any other character? Because all I remember was an Emperor-wannabe who did or said nothing particularly tantalizing the whole film, and it feels like people are automatically assuming there was supposed to be some big revelation with him just because every Abrams story has to have at least one big "mystery box" in them, whether they need them or not, like with the "secret" of how Luke's saber ended up in Maz's place; it's like, why on Earth did that have to be a secret? It's like the assumption that Rey's vision was meant to imply some sort of connection between Kylo & Snoke, when the latter character was never seen (or even heard) in that scene, because when a storyteller is constantly planting mysteries everywhere just because he can, then you can read anything into the vaguest aspects of his work. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, "Luke, I am your father" was a bigger middle finger to established Star Wars canon than anything that Johnson did with The Last Jedi (although I guess that isn't supposed to count if it was Lucas giving his own story the finger...?).

"Luke I am your father" was the best reveal in climatic (I made up a word that encompasses all climax scenes in every movie ever) history. Nothing can be compared. That was just the backdrop to that whole sequence anyway. THe main purpose was trying to turn Luke to the dark side... (again repeated in TFA) Snoke, who was shown as just a hologram in TFA, was absolutely touted as an Emperor-like being, because the world needs Emperor-like beings in Star Wars. That's all.... Johnson killing him off was redirecting that trope, which JJ wanted to repeat again in TFA with turning a potential Jedi to a Sith... "Bring her to me!"

[Skitch]

Aw come on Skitch, I could use the backup!

I can't do it again. The people that love it, love it. The people that hate it, hate it [

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for deeply irrational reasons imo, but they have the right to feel however they want to feel and it doesn't affect my enjoyment of it so what do I care they should adore Rise of Skywalker for all the reasons they hated Last Jedi but what do I know

].

[transmogrifier]

The people that hate it, hate it for deeply irrational reasons imo, they should adore Rise of Skywalker for all the reasons they hated Last Jedi.

Pray tell, please tell me what my irrational reasons are. I'm very interested.

[Skitch]

Pray tell, please tell me what my irrational reasons are. I'm very interested.

I was generalizing about the internet, that was not personally directed at you. [While it probably sounds condescending in text form, it's not meant to be] From what I know of you, you're complaints are probably well thought out and inarguable.

[transmogrifier]

I was generalizing about the internet, that was not personally directed at you. [While it probably sounds condescending in text form, it's not meant to be] From what I know of you, you're complaints are probably well thought out and inarguable.

This movie seems to be a lightning rod for the general move toward making film discussion as polarized as politics, with a team mentality with everyone against you being the worst and their opinions and motivations being obviously driven by (a) personal weaknesses/stupidity and/or (b) an obvious desire to attack us or troll us.

It pisses me off (in general, no about this movie in particular), and I was surprised to see someone like yourself, someone pretty level-headed (Boogie Nights atheism aside), feeding into that.

[Skitch]

This movie seems to be a lightning rod for the general move toward making film discussion as polarized as politics, with a team mentality with everyone against you being the worst and their opinions and motivations being obviously driven by (a) personal weaknesses/stupidity and/or (b) an obvious desire to attack us or troll us.

It pisses me off (in general, no about this movie in particular), and I was surprised to see someone like yourself, someone pretty level-headed (Boogie Nights atheism aside), feeding into that.

I was reacting to the internet's [imo] insane overreaction to this movie. At the absolute worst, The Last Jedi's negative reviews should be indifference. Instead, its hated to the point of it still has Star War assholes starting petitions to have it removed from canon. I feel its more hated than the prequels, and thats just ridiculous.

[Skitch]

Also I was really hammered yesterday (next level, Southern Comfort 100 proof, neighbors fault, I'm curious what other apologies I'll have to make), so I do personally apologize for fucking up a "your". See? Evidence to my state of jackassery.

[StuSmallz]

This is a very pro-TLJ site. You're gonna be alright.

EDIT: You may want to take back that rep, because I'm certainly not one of those supporters I hate the movie.

I know, but any words of support are still appreciated, you know? That being said, though...

Pray tell, please tell me what my irrational reasons are. I'm very interested.

...just speaking for myself, I'd say that your complaint that it didn't make sense for [

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Holdo to not let Poe in on the evacuation plan didn't hold up, since he had already screwed things up by demonstrating insubordination on multiple occasions, and it made perfect sense for her not to trust him with such sensitive information.

] However, I'm not trying to act like there are no legitimate reasons to dislike The Last Jedi, since there are certain flaws with it, like a certain tension between Johnson's tendency to throw curveballs at his audience (at least, as much as he could with this project), and Disney wanting to keep it more viewer-friendly (the repetition of some of the same narrative beats from Empire feels like something Disney probably insisted on, IMO) ... it's just that, the discourse on the film has already been somewhat poisoned by the bad faith trolls online, it's kind of impossible to completely take the taint of that off of the film by this point, which is a shame if, like me, you're looking for some more honest discussion about it, you know?