Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson)

[Pop Trash]

I liked that he did nothing visually with the Force Skyping. Or, rather, that it was just editing and suggestion. That was super-fun to me. I love lo-fi approaches to high-concept ideas.

This. I think adding a layer of CGI mumbo jumbo might have made it more cheesy.

[Pop Trash]

I think one of my first thoughts after Rogue One is it's funny that the infamous reshoot resulted in one of, if not the, best things about the film. The ending is not only pleasing in a fan-service way, but it's also just so organically and thematically appropriate and fitting, like the essence of the film, the message of the past 2 hours, distilled into one scene. Meant to rewatch it one of these days because actually the whole last third is so much superior that it might help with the underwhelming stuff that comes before.

Yes, but then they wreck the whole thing with a close-up of CGI Leia face at the last second.

[Milky Joe]

Yeah, the CGI used on Fisher in TLJ was tasteful, affecting, emotionally and thematically resonant. The CGI Fisher in R1 was just creepy.

[Spinal]

II love lo-fi approaches to high-concept ideas.

This is a very generous response to a very silly scene.

[Dead & Messed Up]

This is a very generous response to a very silly scene.

Technically, series of scenes.

[Spinal]

I didn’t think Rogue One was bad. Just competent, in the most boring ways. The Vader scene is one of the best scenes in the whole saga, and since it happens at the end I think it tainted my original viewing to feel more positive than it actually was.

Rogue One could almost be one of our “movies that exist”.

What makes the film memorable for me is that final, dreadful destruction of the rebel base, along with our highly charismatic heroine. (Is the charisma more to do with Felicity Jones than the writing? Possibly.) The Vader scene is fun, but it's not the thing that sticks with me. The Leia CGI is imperfect, but I don't much care. That sacrifice is one of the most poignant things in the series for me and is a worthy effort to try to deepen the emotional resonance of the groundbreaking original.

[Scar]

I don't get the love for the Vader scene either. Maybe I was too numbed by the realization that they're literally connecting it directly to ANH to care.

Easy for me. Even as a kid, I was more of a Vader fan than a Star Wars fan. That was the scene I had been waiting forty years for.

When I had copies of the movies on VHS, I’d almost exclusively watch the Vader scenes, (and the ROTJ space battle).

[Grouchy]

I get what you're saying, but isn't this a feature of archetype? Neo, conceptually and on the page, is boring as fuck, his character beats and choices are predictable, his dialogue is uninspired and basic. It's casting, the playing of the role, and the surrounding context that breathes life into the character.

This is actually a pretty good argument. I think that Neo has enough proper characters surrounding him that it doesn't make me hate him as much.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Yeah, the CGI used on Fisher in TLJ was tasteful, affecting, emotionally and thematically resonant. The CGI Fisher in R1 was just creepy.

The CGI Fisher made me want to track down and destroy all computers, everywhere.

[Dukefrukem]

What with your hard on for meg lately?

Aside from antiAmerican, contradictory posting? Nothing. He's great.

[D_Davis]

The problem with post Return of the Jedi Star Wars is that there hasn't been a single, lasting villain worth a damn, and thus there is no dramatic drive or any real heroic tension. With Rogue One, the main villain was some white dude in a white suit. I forgot his name 5 minutes after the film ended. The original series is good because of Vader's presence, and he's not even in the films much at all! But his screen time is used to great effect, as his relationship with the heroes.

[Mysterious Dude]

I liked Rogue One's villain! He represents the banality of evil -- he's more interested in advancing his own career than in the ideology of the Empire. I think he's a nice alternative to the usual mustache twirlers.

I admit, however, that I, too, have forgotten his name. I never was good with names.

[[ETM]]

Easy for me. Even as a kid, I was more of a Vader fan than a Star Wars fan. That was the scene I had been waiting forty years for.

When I had copies of the movies on VHS, I’d almost exclusively watch the Vader scenes, (and the ROTJ space battle).

That's what I always assume when people say how much they loved it. I would never ever root for or identify with the "bad guys", as a kid and now. It doesn't help that the whole Jedi/Sith mythos is so easily deconstructed once you think about it for a split second. It all only works if you don't really think about anything.

[megladon8]

You never root for or identity with bad guys? They’re often the most identifiable characters in a story.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Empathize with? Sure. Root for? Not really.

I feel like once I want the villain to win, either the "villain" is really an antihero... or the rest of the movie is terrible.

Sidebar: Kylo Ren is on track to becoming my favorite Wars villain ever.

[Pop Trash]

The problem with post Return of the Jedi Star Wars is that there hasn't been a single, lasting villain worth a damn, and thus there is no dramatic drive or any real heroic tension. With Rogue One, the main villain was some white dude in a white suit. I forgot his name 5 minutes after the film ended. The original series is good because of Vader's presence, and he's not even in the films much at all! But his screen time is used to great effect, as his relationship with the heroes.

I think Kylo in TLJ (not so much in TFA) is extremely interesting and Adam Driver's performance is really nice. That they keep hinting he will turn to the light side of the force makes it even more intriguing.

[Ezee E]

I think Kylo in TLJ (not so much in TFA) is extremely interesting and Adam Driver's performance is really nice. That they keep hinting he will turn to the light side of the force makes it even more intriguing.

Saving Rey at the end, and a happy ending to the trilogy.

[Grouchy]

I often find myself empathizing with / rooting for bad guys when their motivations are relatable. The most recent example is the Vulture in Spiderman: Homecoming.

[Spinal]

I think Adam Driver is giving an excellent performance in these movies.

I do not, however, find the whole light/dark fluctuation in his character to be a very compelling dramatic element.

[Winston*]

I liked Rogue One's villain! He represents the banality of evil -- he's more interested in advancing his own career than in the ideology of the Empire. I think he's a nice alternative to the usual mustache twirlers.

I admit, however, that I, too, have forgotten his name. I never was good with names.

Yeah, he was great. The harried middle manager of the Death Star project. Probably wakes up an hour early each morning so he can iron that dumb cape.

[transmogrifier]

I do not, however, find the whole light/dark fluctuation in his character to be a very compelling dramatic element.

You're right, it comes across as very arbitrary in order to try and generate some character shading is a story that is all lost at sea. It doesn't help that his original "turn" against Luke/the Jedi has been lazily presented as a single scene in a hut retold three ways for no real reason except to try and drag out some drama and to boost its cinematic cred by referencing Kurosawa some more.

[Spinal]

Force Awakens: Kylo Ren is so evil he'll kill his father in cold blood. You know, Han freaking Solo!
Me: Oh, well, that's pretty damn evil.

Last Jedi: Kylo Ren is evil!
Me: He sure is!
Last Jedi: But what made him that way?
Me: Uh ... don't care.
Last Jedi: Where did he go wrong? Was it his training with Luke?
Me: I feel like we're blaming the victims here.
Last Jedi: Deep within, is there good in him worth saving?
Me: Pretty sure there's not ...
Last Jedi: KYLO REN IS EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!
Me: Oh, look at that.
Last Jedi: Man, you should see your face.
Me: .......
Last Jedi: But maybe ................
Me: I hate you.

[Dukefrukem]

You honestly don't care that he's evil for no rational reason? This is part of the reason why that line in TFA was so terrible: "I will finish, what you started". Vadar was dead long before Kylo was even born.

Raise your hand if you hate your father. Now raise your hand if you hate your father and would like murder him and all of his family and friends. See a difference?

[transmogrifier]

The SNL Kylo Ren is more interesting than the real thing.

[Spinal]

You honestly don't care that he's evil for no rational reason?

They did 3 whole movies about why Darth Vader is evil. It did nothing to improve my experience of that character or the overall story.