Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson)

[Peng]

Should be interesting to see this one's Cinemascore. A friend posted this on facebook with the caption "Some?? All REAL fans hate it. Disgrace to the lore and the legacy." Seems to be a growing sentiment among some, and they tend to be the group that Cinemascore samples on opening weekend.

[Irish]

^ Strangely large gap between critical and audience reaction.

[Mal]

Should be interesting to see this one's Cinemascore. A friend posted this on facebook with the caption "Some?? All REAL fans hate it. Disgrace to the lore and the legacy." Seems to be a growing sentiment among some, and they tend to be the group that Cinemascore samples on opening weekend.

I agree with Snoke criticism - it felt lacking and we obviously got plenty of understanding of the Emperor. But the other things are not issues, especially considering that there's another movie coming. People are ridiculous.

[kuehnepips]

I'm with Wats on this one.

Welcome back KF!

[Dukefrukem]

Random thoughts on the thread so far:

- Not enough mentions of porg-on-porg action. Where's the porg love, brothers and sisters?

- Scar's and TGM's reactions are shocking and have me worried. (But I kinda dig Watashi's full-throated defense & enthusiasm.)

- Waiting for Duke and Skitch to weigh in.

Seeing it tonight with the family.

[Grouchy]

Dude, Zac, it turns out the milk isn't just some random addition. Blue milk is what Luke is having for breakfast with his family in Tattooine in A New Hope.

The vanishing dice are apparently also a reference. They're seen hanging, car style, in the control room of the Millennium Falcon during the OT.

[Mal]

Dude, Zac, it turns out the milk isn't just some random addition. Blue milk is what Luke is having for breakfast with his family in Tattooine in A New Hope.

Tits, Grouchy. TITS.

[Philip J. Fry]

So...
[

Show Spoiler

am I the only person that was reminded of this on Rey's cave scene?

]

[Rico]

Love Rey's journey in this. Her scenes with Kylo and Luke and whatever that evil pit was, it all worked for me.

The Poe and Finn storyline is mostly a complete dud. I say mostly because I did like the introduction of Rose. Her first scene with Finn reminded me of when Rey and Finn first meet Han. How they looked up to Han as a hero of the rebellion.

[Rico]

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Last Jedi
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Attack of the Clones
9. Rogue One

[Philip J. Fry]

From worst to best:

9. Attack of the Clones
8. The Phantom Menace
7. Return of the Sith
6. Rogue One
5. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
3. The Last Jedi
2. A New Hope
1. The Empire Strikes Back

I consider the first six places good ranging to great movies.

[Philip J. Fry]

Tits, Grouchy. TITS.

[Dukefrukem]

LOVE the journey aspect of this film. I'm going to sleep on it, but this is the feeling I was hoping to get out of Force Awakens.

More tomorrow.

[Dukefrukem]

And yet.... this movie has a worse story than any of them.

There's no galaxy this is true. As Wats said, try and think of the plot of Phantom Menace, (and not just the stuff about Vadar) including everything about the republic and the trade federation. It's a shit show.

[Henry Gale]

^ Strangely large gap between critical and audience reaction.

Despite this being not far off from our own current poll split of 60-40, I have found myself going along with the camp of those who believe this really might be the work of strange, sad 4chan and Reddit contingents storming the audience score to push it into the green.

Especially because if what I heard recently is true that on opening day for a movie on RT, everyone's "Want To See" votes from their site and Flixster are automatically absorbed and converted as Fresh, then it would be pretty fuckin' hard to make the audience score of a movie with maximum awareness and 99%-type levels of anticipation fall so instantly without other forces at play.

But I also loved it a lot and have found a lot of the hate I've read somewhat unfathomable/incoherent to really want to believe it all so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[transmogrifier]

But I also loved it a lot and have found a lot of the hate I've read somewhat unfathomable/incoherent to really want to believe it all so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Reversed for me; I found a lot of the support for it to be tenuous at best... e.g., it's like Kurosawa because it flashes back to the same things three times! I mean, just because it does something a great film has done in the past does not make it great in itself. There is so much reaching going on to apologize for all its basic terribleness in core plotting and characterization.

[transmogrifier]

Also, finally rewatched TFA - it's worse than I remembered, but still better than TLJ.

1. ESB - 92
2. ANH - 84
3. ROTJ - 83
4. Rogue One - 56
5. TFA - 55
6. TLJ - 49
7. TPM - 44
8. ROTS - 41
9. AOTC - 13

[Weems]

Quite possibly the worst movie I've ever seen. I loved Brick and Rian Johnson's work on Breaking Bad, but I wouldn't even shake his hand in public after seeing this crap. Did this movie really have a script?

Great:

The Empire Strikes Back

A New Hope / Return of the Jedi


Lousy:

The prequels


Abysmal:

The Force Awakens

Rogue One


Despair inducing:

The Last Jedi

[Watashi]

Quite possibly the worst movie I've ever seen.

That's silly.

I loved Brick and Rian Johnson's work on Breaking Bad, but I wouldn't even shake his hand in public after seeing this crap.

Your chances of meeting him are very low, but okay!

Did this movie really have a script?

Yes.

[transmogrifier]

What's weird to me is that most of the semi-professional critics I follow on Letterboxd have gone wild on this (comparatively), which I think goes to show how the critical mindset has shifted in this era, moving away from judging a film on its underlying craft (plotting, story, tone, rhythm, thematic unity) and focusing more on visuals, "moments", homages, self-referentiality, and genre deconstruction. I simply cannot understand otherwise how some of the most blatantly poor story decisions in this film (and there are many) can be summarily ignored or dismissed just because the throne room was red like in Kurosawa films (!) or Snoke was killed off unceremoniously as a reference to all the theories that were going around (double !!).

[transmogrifier]

Oh, I forgot to ask: did you guys have onscreen introductory text for each of the characters when they first appeared? I would assume not and what we got was a regional thing because Rogue One absolutely bombed here in Korea and Disney are trying to make things more accessible.

[Weems]

What's weird to me is that most of the semi-professional critics I follow on Letterboxd have gone wild on this (comparatively), which I think goes to show how the critical mindset has shifted in this era, moving away from judging a film on its underlying craft (plotting, story, tone, rhythm, thematic unity) and focusing more on visuals, "moments", homages, self-referentiality, and genre deconstruction. I simply cannot understand otherwise how some of the most blatantly poor story decisions in this film (and there are many) can be summarily ignored or dismissed just because the throne room was red like in Kurosawa films (!) or Snoke was killed off unceremoniously as a reference to all the theories that were going around (double !!).

When I see David Ehrlich claim this is the best Star Wars film, I want to tear my hair out. [

Show Spoiler

Not only is there not a single memorable line of dialogue in this film, there isn't a single decent line. Leia survives space vacuum in the laziest deus ex machina manner possible. Finn is a useless slapstick character. Hux behaves like an SNL parody of a sneering British malevolent villain, with none of the menace/presence of Tarkin. Why didn't Laura Dern tell Oscar Isaac what was up in the first place? To create fake drama? Why did Rose prevent Finn from reaching the generator by almost killing both of them, and then spouting off a line about "I saved you!" like somebody in the worst episode of the worst CW show? Why does this movie parrot exact scenes from Empire and ROTJ beat by beat? Why did Lucasfilm waste money on this shitty Snoke cgi that looks no better than some third-rate video game cutscene character, and has been poorly established and spouts the most absurd and cliche villain lines? Why is a bootleg Battle of Hoth ripoff starting like 2 hours into the movie? etc. Everything about this film is utter garbage.

]

[Dukefrukem]

Oh, I forgot to ask: did you guys have onscreen introductory text for each of the characters when they first appeared? I would assume not and what we got was a regional thing because Rogue One absolutely bombed here in Korea and Disney are trying to make things more accessible.

No.

And I'm still waiting for you to give examples of the poor story decisions. I can think of one legitimate one;

[

Show Spoiler

When Finn decides to be a suicide bomber

]

[transmogrifier]

No.

And I'm still waiting for you to give examples of the poor story decisions. I can think of one legitimate one;

[

Show Spoiler

When Finn decides to be a suicide bomber

]

That's the only one you can find? I don't believe it.

[Dukefrukem]

When I see David Ehrlich claim this is the best Star Wars film, I want to tear my hair out. [

Show Spoiler

Not only is there not a single memorable line of dialogue in this film, there isn't a single decent line. Leia survives space vacuum in the laziest deus ex machina manner possible. Finn is a useless slapstick character. Hux behaves like an SNL parody of a sneering British malevolent villain, with none of the menace/presence of Tarkin. Why didn't Laura Dern tell Oscar Isaac what was up in the first place? To create fake drama? Why did Rose prevent Finn from reaching the generator by almost killing both of them, and then spouting off a line about "I saved you!" like somebody in the worst episode of the worst CW show? Why does this movie parrot exact scenes from Empire and ROTJ beat by beat? Why did Lucasfilm waste money on this shitty Snoke cgi that looks no better than some third-rate video game cutscene character, and has been poorly established and spouts the most absurd and cliche villain lines? Why is a bootleg Battle of Hoth ripoff starting like 2 hours into the movie? etc. Everything about this film is utter garbage.

]

He's an alternate take on your criticisms.

[

Show Spoiler

1. No memorable line: Incorrect: "See you around kid" from Skywalker towards Kylo as he disappears, homage to Han.

2. Deus Ex Machina Leia: Incorrect: You know she's force sensitive right? We saw two new force powers in TFA, and two more in TLJ-

3. Finn: They made him go on a journey to get the code-breaker (Which I Loved)

4. Hux: This is true, but it's no different from his character in TFA, I think everyone on MC agrees with this.

5. Dern: It was pretty clear she was demonstrating rank, and she did clearly say he was demoted

6. Rose/Finn: I hated this scene and I agree it's a valid criticism.

7. Empire/ROTJ: It didn't really but why did TFA mirror ANH? You could argue the Luke training was mirroring Empire I suppose, but what else? The Emperor wasn't killed in Empire.

8. Snoke: I thought he was more menacing in this movie than TFA, They demonstrated his power nicely. Anything about Snoke being a lame mirror of the Emperor I support, but that's JJ's fault. Johnson was just working with what he had.

9. Hoth: Because there was AT-ATs?

10. Garbage? No it wasn't.

]