Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson)

[Milky Joe]

When they start churning out two Star Wars movies a year that figure is going to start trending downward, and fast.

[Skitch]

They said the same about Marvel.

[Lazlo]

Gooooood.

As for Rian's trilogy seeing light of day...yes, he may just act as a showrunner, steering the project, and I'm totally fine with that. Others have already mentioned he didn't cause problems, but let us not forget the biggest box that Disney wants checked:

Seems like it's getting checked. Maybe not Force Awakens levels, but still.

[Skitch]

TFA had the big bonus of being new, our first revisit with OT characters. I expected TLJ to be less because of that, but its still making big bank.

[MadMan]

Fuck it. I'm rewatching the prequels again.

I have seen the OT and prequels numerous times thanks to Spike TV.

[MadMan]

One of my favorite little moments that I haven't seen anyone talk about is the swift dolly to Luke sitting by the pool in the Jedi temple where he shouts, "At the height of [the Jedi's] powers, they allowed Darth Sidious to rise, create the Empire, and wipe them out. It was a Jedi Master who was responsible for the training and creation of Darth Vader." It's such an emotional outburst and it ties the prequels in in a really neat way. It succinctly sums up that trilogy with a stark weight and heartbreaking simplicity. It also indicates Luke's understanding of the past and the ways he was susceptible to its failings. Really stood out to me the second time around. Plus, Palpatine hadn't been referred to as Sidious by an OT character before. Loved it.

Yes that scene was fantastic. Mark Hamill really did serious work in TLJ.

[Dead & Messed Up]

People online are arguing about this movie's grosses like it's meaningful that Jedihas to settle for being the 6th highest domestic grosser of all time, barely passing the 8th highest domestic grosser of all time, and what a shame that it won't match the top grosser of all time.

Look at that image Skitch posted. Four out of those five movies are owned by Disney.

Disney does not care.

They don't care.

They've won in such a profound way that you might as well say Jedi grossed a single dollar less than Awakens.

[Skitch]

Look at that image Skitch posted. Four out of those five movies are owned by Disney.

Disney does not care.

They don't care.

They've won in such a profound way that you might as well say Jedi grossed a single dollar less than Awakens.

Yep. But they care. They care very very deeply. Not about artistry or big names attached or critics or fan criticism...it all comes down to the bucks. And if the bucks are there...they do not care about anything else.

To be fair though, this is true of all the major studios as evidenced by the studio system to appeal to the widest audience through the screening system and the MPAA and yadda yadda...but the ultimate vote is always the money.

[Skitch]

Also for those that say the hate went so far to have a petition to remove it from canon, that currently has 81,910 signatures. At $10 bucks a head thats $819,100. I think Disney will survive without your money. Also, they already paid to see it. And they will pay to see the next one.

[Wryan]

Saw it again with friends around New Years. Driver is so damn good in this. He puts everything in it. The second time I wasn't put off by the protracted final 45 minutes because I expected it, whereas the first time it felt fairly interminable. I was able to just watch it narratively. I saw/heard some chatter about the throne room fight being clumsy or workmanlike in execution, but I found it terrific. Once they start fighting, it's immediately sort of startling, in a "Oh shit, right, it's that SW movie, too" kind of way. It's not super fancy and fleet like the prequel choreo. It's just bodies moving around with weight and heft and physical requirement. I agree that the movie leaves the series on a very open note. The Rebels have a huge hill to climb. Hope the third movie is interesting and brings it to a nice close.

[Wryan]

Also, they should provide Rey with some bodyguard doubles in a future scene and have Portman and Knightley play them.

[Lazlo]

The teacher of the software training I’m in has a Jedi order logo on his hat so i'm assuming he's a self-important failure at heart.

[Morris Schæffer]

You... you don't have to do that.

I've got a bad feeling about this.

[Dukefrukem]

Well I didn't get around to it this weekend... but it's coming.

[MadMan]

I want to see the movie again for the throne room scene, alone. Utterly badass.

[number8]

I love these examples of guys being baffled that Adam Driver's shirtless scene is being made a big deal of by women.

[Milky Joe]

I like how Wookiepedia chimed in with the defense. I can only assume it was Google translated from "raagggnnnngghhhhwwwhmmpph ".

[Izzy Black]

I didn't like this one too much.

I have lots of issues with the film, but I didn't outright hate it. I would say that there were some enjoyable moments, a few really impressive and promising elements, but that overall I was fairly underwhelmed and disappointed. I have several plot specific issues that have already been widely discussed, but my more serious concerns are more general. I'll discuss these more serious complaints along with some of the things that I liked.

First, the basic narrative structure of the film. I felt TFA established Poe, Finn, Rey, BB8, and Chewbacca as our band of heroes, along with R2D2 and C3PO to a lesser extent. But there is very little engaging interaction between these characters in the film. Rose is introduced, which carries the burden of setting up a new character, and they do a decent enough job at that, but I wasn't a fan of how isolated Finn and Rose were from the others and how plot-driven their interaction was. It's one thing if the characters are temporarily off on their own separate ways doing their own thing and then come together at some point later, as in previous films, but I never really felt there was much compelling group interaction even by the end of the film. I felt TFA, while keeping it safe, benefited by confidently sticking to the classic SW template of featuring a band of characters on a lighthearted action-packed adventure together. I felt like this film came out as a very disjointed, bloated, and poorly executed product from a narrative POV.

Second, I was pretty underwhelmed with how the character development was handled in much of this film. The sentimental speeches and preachy sound bytes were pretty unbearable, and made only worse by the film's multiple endings. The film, from the opening sequence, was constantly trying to make an epic thematic statement. (This reeks of Nolan-like impulses. Show your themes to me don't talk them at me). A lot of it feels unearned since so little time is given to just spending time with these characters, seeing them banter, bond, and getting to know each other, such that we really care or get the pay off whenever a Grand Gesture is made and a schmaltzy line of dialogue is uttered. An exception, however, is just about everything that happens between Rey and Kylo. This is where the film shines. In general, I love the shift back to the more philosophical/mythological handling of the force of the OT. Here, we see a nice development. The film does a good job of exploring the notion of balance and the force as a graded rather than absolute phenomenon. The light/dark binary is really a continuum on which characters can find themselves on as they struggle to negotiate between these powerful and not-clearly-defined extremes. A moral gray is officially mythologized in this respect, and Kylo (by way of Driver's excellent performance) nears Vader's moral complexity much better than Lucas and Christensen's Anakin ever did. And Rey and Kylo's mind melding was cool shit, although I was disappointed with how Snoke was finished off.

In terms of world building, the Jedi Temple was easily the best part of the film from a cinematic point of view. It was gorgeous and very well developed. I enjoyed all the little details and nuances of fleshing out this little location. The caretakers looked great, the porgs were cute and amusing, and the other creatures and environmental elements were all suggestive, believable, and interesting. I was surprised to like the porgs in particular because the shot of the one with Chewbacca on the Falcon in the trailer looked like bad CGI to me, but the rest we see on film seemed well done. In general, the stuff here felt deeper, richer, and more developed and interesting than anything we got from the rushed (and/or rehashed) poorly developed locations elsewhere, which brings me to one of my biggest disappointments.

Canto Bight Casino was an outright missed opportunity. Here's a new location ripe with the rich opportunity to show us the economic corruption, abuse of power, and the opulence and misdeeds of high society and oppressive institutions. In the past, we've seen the seedy underbelly of some of the galaxy's most notorious locations, such as a run down cantina filled with lowlifes and criminals, or a gangster's palace of debauchery, crime, and sin. Here we could've seen wretchedness on the other end of the spectrum, a posh mixing place for traders, bankers, entrepreneurs, thieves, smugglers, gamblers, politicians, or other professions that haven't really been explored (entertainers, socialites, lawyer types etc). Instead, we get a few quick vistas and brief wide shots of some gambling, then it's all run over by some really terrible Lucas style CGI. It's made worse by the fact that this whole detour added very little of much interest to the plot from my POV. An utter disappointment.

My last major complaint is the lack of a compelling light saber duel. This complaint may strike some of you as more of an idiosyncratic quibble, since we obviously get a really nice fight with Ren and Rey against Snoke's guards. It's a good fight, I admit. But I feel like I haven't seen a genuinely compelling, straightforward light saber duel since TPM. It's something that the OT tastefully delivered on in every film. Don't get me wrong, I do like the sparing use of lightsabers in the Disney films. I appreciate that greatly. A very welcome return to form. But I still hope to see a truly special lightsaber duel full of emotion in the end of the film. I feel like we've yet to get one. I thought I was going to get one between Luke and Ren. What I got instead was an interesting scene, and admittedly, a nice introduction of a new force power, but unfortunately for me, not a genuine substitute for an all out lightsaber battle. And by that, I certainly don't need acrobatics and fancy footwork (the ROTJ fight reigns supreme for me). I just want to a see a fairly protracted, high-stakes battle that's well choreographed and full of tension and emotion.

Overall, this is one of my least favorite Star Wars films, but it has a considerable upside with a lot of potential. Unlike Rogue One, I think my opinion of this film can improve upon seeing it a second time, since, unlike Rogue One, there's a lot going on here and I actually have some desire to see this one again.

[Grouchy]

Canto Bight Casino was an outright missed opportunity. Here's a new location ripe with the rich opportunity to show us the economic corruption, abuse of power, and the opulence and misdeeds of high society and oppressive institutions. In the past, we've seen the seedy underbelly of some of the galaxy's most notorious locations, such as a run down cantina filled with lowlifes and criminals, or a gangster's palace of debauchery, crime, and sin. Here we could've seen wretchedness on the other end of the spectrum, a posh mixing place for traders, bankers, entrepreneurs, thieves, smugglers, gamblers, politicians, or other professions that haven't really been explored (entertainers, socialites, lawyer types etc). Instead, we get a few quick vistas and brief wide shots of some gambling, then it's all run over by some really terrible Lucas style CGI. It's made worse by the fact that this whole detour added very little of much interest to the plot from my POV. An utter disappointment.

I loved The Last Jedi as a whole but I have to agree with this.

[ledfloyd]

I finally saw this yesterday. It was fine.

I did catch myself checking my watch a lot more frequently than I did with TFA.

[number8]

Hmm.

https://www.pedestrian.tv/entertainm...an-edit-women/

Why would they cut the milk part? Is making Luke drink green breast milk considered a feminist sabotage of the character?

[Skitch]

I think in the original tweet I saw they cut it "just because it was dumb".

[number8]

Being sexist is one thing, but calling the best scene in the movie dumb? They can fight me.

[Grouchy]

I have a friend who hated The Last Jedi and, according to him, if I saw that milking scene there's nothing further to discuss and I should acknowledge that the movie's terrible.

[Milky Joe]

My last major complaint is the lack of a compelling light saber duel. This complaint may strike some of you as more of an idiosyncratic quibble, since we obviously get a really nice fight with Ren and Rey against Snoke's guards. It's a good fight, I admit. But I feel like I haven't seen a genuinely compelling, straightforward light saber duel since TPM.

I could not disagree more, I thought the Luke/Kylo showdown was the finest lightsaber duel since the OT, without question. The prequel fights were all flash and zero substance. I know it's fantasy, but the fact is that nobody actually sword-fights like that. The analogy would be pro wrestling vs. MMA. Pro wrestling is a ton of fun and when done right can mix the drama of real fighting with the narrative drive of the best storytelling. MMA is dirty, ugly, and can bring out some really primitive responses from the audience.

Luke vs Kylo was more MMA than pro wrestling. It was akin to bushido, quite deliberately. The emphasis on footwork, stance. Quick, sudden bursts of violence based on reading your opponent. Ever played Bushido Blade? The strikes are tactical. The fight is over before it begins—as was this one. Luke won before Kylo made a move, actually he won as soon as Kylo made a move.

That's what this was and that's why I loved it. Of course, Kylo thought he could read his old Master but Luke was playing the ultimate bluff—and Kylo took the bait. It was as much a mental fight as it was physical, and it was fucking perfect. It was also shot so beautifully.

Again the more I think about this film, the more I love it, warts and all.