Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson)

[transmogrifier]

I'm gonna be interested to see how the extremely volatile reaction of the film's immediate reception shakes out over time. I don't say that to say "you'll come around" to the naysayers at all. But given the incredible iconic status of this series, how it's viewed is going to change a lot with time and as the series continues to make itself. At the very least, at some point, I expect there'll be less Monday morning quarterbacking.

Watching these movies is such a layered, multiple experience. You're watching them not just with interest, but suspicion, expectations, hopes, fears, and a keen awareness of their place in an unfolding series and franchise. I like the movie--a lot--but this mixture of feelings while watching it makes it hard to offer anything like a verdict (and as I revisit more and more films from different phases of my life, I feel like I can say that final verdicts themselves are pretty elusive), and I know it's gonna take another viewing or two to sort things out. I can tell you it's sitting very well with me, but once the what's-going-to-happen? is replaced a by this-is-how-it-happens, I'll be able to talk more confidently about what the film does and what it does well.

Well, I rewatched TFA and liked it less, and I can see it happening again with this one as well. It's just not a good film.

[Skitch]

I just want to say I appreciate the use of spoiler tags. As a Star Wars dork who absolutely cannot resist clicking this thread and who refuses to let my viewing be ruined by a sold out crowd.

[Dead & Messed Up]

For whatever reason, I am seeing a lot of these laundry lists of the movie's faults--almost entirely plot-driven--and as I go through them I'm like "No, that's fine. No, that's fine. No, that's fine."

I don't consider myself an ardent Star Wars defender. I didn't like Rogue One. I don't wanna get into a line-by-line battle over these things, since I'm sure it's gonna boil down to "This bothers me" and I'll be like "This doesn't bother me, and I think I actually like it." There were some moments of intended comedy that failed to land for me. But most everything else really doesn't register as objectionable to me.

The big one my wife and I disagreed on was [

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Rose's line about protecting what they love and then her kiss

]. I like it. It's something I really like about the movie actually. There's no need for [

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Finn to die

]. In fact, it's suggested that his attack may have ended up being fruitless anyway. It plays out some of the major themes of Star Wars often surrounding the different sides of the Force--what motivates the fight--in a small, interpersonal scale and I kind of love it. The framing's really good too, with what's going on in the background. (EDIT: Stopping a battle to state a theme pretty explicitly and having a conversation is something I may be conditioned by Gundam and other robot anime to love.)

Also, Rose is good.

Agreed that [

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Finn didn't need to die, and his decision felt a little too snap, so I'm down with Rose stopping it; it especially makes sense after she's lost so much in the front of the movie, for her to hang onto him and say, "No, not today, this isn't the time." I liked Rose; didn't love her, but found her a nice counterweight to Finn.

]

Honestly, at this point, I'd rather watch it again than stake out any heavy territory. There's so much movie in the movie.

[Russ]

This is as much fun as I've had at a Star Wars film since standing in a long line for a couple of hours back in 1977. I stood in a long line for this one too. This gave me the same vibes I felt 40 years ago.

Flaws, shmaws. This film absolutely NAILED IT.

[Morris Schæffer]

[

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I mean, they should be. You honestly thought Finn's character was developed enough for a suicide run?

]

He was a principal character and this franchise[

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has on ocassion done away with those. It happened in 2015 if you recall. In addition, Finn comes from the enemy and throughout two movies it seems he's the one most determined to atone, to do whatever is necessary to fight back. Of all the characters, he's one of a few whom I thought was gonna have a redemptive arc later on. Alas, the actual outcome isn't as convincing as an actual succesful suicide run, which was, like you said yourself, itself not very convincing.

]

[Philip J. Fry]

Also, Rose is good.

This Rose would've never let Jack die.

[Ezee E]

Read the thread.

When this movie has a high point, it really hits.

But when it has a low point, it's really bad.

Despite feeling long, it's also rushed at the same time. I feel like the whole movie could really hit if there just a few little edits made to the script.

Overall, I like that there's a trademark feel to it, and it's way better than anything Marvel.

My good and bad coming up.

[Ezee E]

WAIT:

One thing to point out that NOBODY has discussed.
[

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ROYAL GUARDS IN ACTION. Is it just me, or have I waited since Return of the Jedi for this to happen? This is the highlight to me.

]

[Ezee E]

THE GOOD:[

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-The planets are all different and work. The Casino island needed way more time to it. I want to know everything about the place. Luke's planet feels remote, I like the use of "living off the land" even if it seems kind of weird for a kid-friendly movie... And the salt planet with the crystal wolves was fun to look at with the color schemes.

-Laura Dern... as an actress. She did a fantastic job.

-The Hyperspace Battle move. This really silenced the crowd and I did not expect that to happen.

-Imperial Royal Guards in action. Loved their weapons.

-Rey's dream session in the dark void was the right kind of 'dream' for this. Not really sure what to make of it, but sweet.

-The escape tactic by Skywalker. I actually thought this was happening, but really liked it as a tactic. Just wish their was a sense that it does 'hurt' the person to basically transport themselves.

]

[Ezee E]

THE BAD:[

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-Laura Dern's "secret" tactic makes no sense to keep secret unless she thought a spy was on board. She had great leadership skills, so it's not like she was new to this.

-Leia's "death and return" might be the biggest eye-roll moment of the whole trilogy. And I'm being rational here in that I hate almost everything (and remember next to nothing) about that Prequel Trilogy.

-The casino scenes are so rushed that it makes the whole thing kind of stupid. Everything about it, whether it's the Kanata appearance (was she in an actual fight or playing some game?), the racing aspect, the ridiculous search. The absolute worst is the timely placing of Benicio's character. Everything about the escape and what transpired with him is lazy, lazy, lazy... I was REALLY hoping Lando Calrissian would've been that guy. Maybe then, I'd have been surprised by his eventual turn, and boy how painful would that have been.

-Snoke simply died too easily and Kylo Ren is no super villain now. This trilogy is going to have a hard time with Episode IX I think. Hux is just annoying.

-I was onboard with the "suicide mission" until Rose took Finn out of the situation. Even her motto makes no sense considering Finn was doing EXACTLY that for many more people. Rose... wasted character to just have her die at that point.

-Chewbacca needs a reason to be around.

Hmm... outside of hating the pacing of the casino area, and the tactics of the Rebel Empire, I realize the flaws aren't so bad to me after all.

]

[Pop Trash]

What's weird to me is that most of the semi-professional critics I follow on Letterboxd have gone wild on this (comparatively), which I think goes to show how the critical mindset has shifted in this era, moving away from judging a film on its underlying craft (plotting, story, tone, rhythm, thematic unity) and focusing more on visuals, "moments", homages, self-referentiality, and genre deconstruction. I simply cannot understand otherwise how some of the most blatantly poor story decisions in this film (and there are many) can be summarily ignored or dismissed just because the throne room was red like in Kurosawa films (!) or Snoke was killed off unceremoniously as a reference to all the theories that were going around (double !!).

I'm sure I've said this to you before, but I don't think you fundamentally understand cinema (or at least how it differs from eg. a written story or even a performed play) at all.

[transmogrifier]

I'm sure I've said this to you before, but I don't think you fundamentally understand cinema (or at least how it differs from eg. a written story or even a performed play) at all.

Well, that's me done then I guess.

[TGM]

Would you mind spoiler tagging your posts, Ezee?

[Pop Trash]

Well, that's me done then I guess.

It's cool. You and Irish can compete for the most nonsensical opinions on here.

[Ezee E]

Would you mind spoiler tagging your posts, Ezee?

No probs.

[MadMan]

That was rad. I loved the porgs. DaMU, Wats and others mostly summed up how I feel, so here is my ranking of the Star Wars films:

1. ESB
2. ROTS
3. ANH
4. TLJ
5. TFA
6. R1
7. ROTJ
8. TPM
9. AOTC

[Morris Schæffer]

The day after. The "horseriding" on cantu is another thing that refuses to vacate my thoughts.

A visual touch during the finale doesn't either. When [

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Kylo charges Luke, slices through him, out of sight I believe, and his foot glides in the sand and produces a long, red mark. That was amazing. That visual really made me believe Luke was a goner.

]

My ranking

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. The Force Awakens
6. The Last Jedi
7. Rogue One
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones

There's no way any of these new movies are superior to any movie in the original trilogy and with each new SW movie, that feeling is reinforced.

Although I'm entirely unsure whether 5 comes indeed before 6.

@Madman: Props for putting ROTS at #2. It's rather too high a pedestal, but I'm quite enamoured with it myself.

[Skitch]

It's cool. You and Irish can compete for the most nonsensical opinions on here.

I'll take their reasoned disagreements over your pretentious horseshit any day.

[Dukefrukem]

If we all agreed on everything, this would be a really boring place.

Pop Trash you are out of line.

[Morris Schæffer]

If we all agreed on everything, this would be a really boring place.

I agree.

[Dukefrukem]

Someone noticed that Snoke has a ring on- that might explain Snoke's origin. [

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I guess it has the four glyphs of the Dwartii- who were lawgivers back during the Old Republic.
Palpatine was a huge admirer of them as seen in the photos below. It could just be a coincidence given their history they were very well known politicians. Or it could mean that Snoke is Palaptine. Or it could point to Snoke being one of them.

There's a Visual Dictionary for Star Wars: The Last Jedi that was published that continues to reiterate that Snoke is not a Sith Lord. Which means he's not Palpatine. So Snoke's origin may very well be one of the Dwartii, specificly Braata, whom had been known study the dark side of the force. THis would make him over 1000 years old, and could explain his decrepit state.

Just some interesting tidbits based around cannon media.

]

[Morris Schæffer]

What did Luke glimpse in the sun moments [

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before he vanished into this air? There was a black dot there clearly visible.

]

[Peng]

Kinda in the middle ground of not loving everything from the OT and not disliking everything from the PT. The latter might be changed, however, since I watched all six about 10 years ago and the PT probably benefit from me still watching stuff in subtitles at the time, but I doubt ROTS will be dragged down much since I found it affecting on a story level then. Even the first two in the PT might never cross into full-on "hating" for me, since my first exposure to Star Wars is watching them all in Episode order, so I will never associate any sense of sacrilege with that trilogy.

1. The Empire Strikes Back 9.5/10
2. A New Hope 9/10
3. The Last Jedi 8.5/10
4. Revenge of the Sith 8/10
5. The Force Awakens 8/10
6. Rogue One 7.5/10
7. The Return of the Jedi 6.5-7/10
8. The Phantom Menace 6/10
9. Attack of the Clones 5.5-6/10

The placements of no. 3 and 4 are still not very sure; will need a rewatch of ROTS for that.

[Lazlo]

Love, love, loved this movie. Just knocked me flat with its emotion, visual touches, hard critique of the series' status quo, humor, and heart.

[Grouchy]

[

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By the way, sort of morbid comment to make, but the producers sure bet their money on the wrong Skywalker.

]