Coco (Lee Unkrich)

[Grouchy]

'seemingly good guy turns to be moustache-twirling villain'

What other examples do you have of this? I can only think of Toy Story 3 and The Incredibles movies but the latter ones don't really keep it a secret... From the moment that Syndrome or those two brothers walk into the plot anyone who has seen more than two movies knows that they will turn bad.

Anyway, this was great. I agree that Pixar has made less traditional films but this is still a very emotional story told with gorgeous animation and well-rounded characters. Few people have mentioned what a great debt it owes to Tim Schafer's Grim Fandango.

[Dead & Messed Up]

What other examples do you have of this? I can only think of Toy Story 3 and The Incredibles movies but the latter ones don't really keep it a secret... From the moment that Syndrome or those two brothers walk into the plot anyone who has seen more than two movies knows that they will turn bad.

Maybe a better term is "late-breaking villains." Where you either don't know if the villain is an emergent villain until late in the story, or you suspect as much, but they don't achieve their true villainy until late in the film. Their villainy is either absent or mysterious. Toy Story 2 and Up and Wall-E similarly had late-breaking villains, and Pixar-adjacent movies like Zootopia and Frozen withhold their villains (and their villainous motivations) until the final acts.

[Honestly, I don't think it matters whether or not we can see them coming as villains; the films are withholding clearly-motivated choices.]

These can work well thematically or narratively, but a friend of mine really doesn't like the practice anymore; she prefers the more direct and immediately impactful villainy of Disney Renaissance villains like Ursula, Jafar, Frollo, Hades, etc. where their motivations are clear and compelling from the beginning, and I tend to agree.

I suspect (but can't prove) that this whole "withhold the villain" practice is a symptom of fearful writing. It's easier to faceplant in front of the audience if your villain is presented as as villain from the beginning and fails to engage with the audience. It's harder to faceplant if you've hidden the villain for 2/3 of the story and play the negative action of the story as a mystery (or omit it entirely). That way, you can play their villainy as a surprise, and that way you can at least be guaranteed of hitting a big beat of surprise leading into the final act. Even if that big beat of surprise is more contrived and less a logical consequence of character conflicts.

[Think of Gaston in the original Beauty and the Beast for a good example of a "late-breaking" villain. It's because of Belle's choices that he devolves. It wasn't like he was hiding murderous intent the whole time.]