MLB Discussion

[Benny Profane]

Wow, the Reds really suck. Gotta be the most disappointing team this year.

[Dukefrukem]

Who needs Crawford when you have Ellsbury on pace to have 30+ HRs, 60+ steals?

Fixed.

[Dukefrukem]

Duke,

Are you still optimistic about Crawford? He's actually getting worse as the season rolls on.

He's not getting worse. His average was the highest it's been all season. (.250) For some reason he's very injury prone this season. But yeh, this has the possibility to bethe worst signing ever. Well... there will always be Santana, Beltran, Pavano...

[shaun]

Beltran had a 128 OPS+ with the Mets over 7 years. I'm certain that the Sox would be thrilled with that production out of Crawford.

Santana yeah, Lackey yeah.

[Benny Profane]

No way in hell should Beltran ever be lumped in with the Mo Vaughns of the world.

EDIT: Or what Shaun said.

[Dukefrukem]

No way in hell should Beltran ever be lumped in with the Mo Vaughns of the world.

EDIT: Or what Shaun said.

Haha I forgot about that Mo Vaughn signing. God the Mets will throw money at anyone...

[shaun]

Beltran made 5 All Star games and 3 Gold Gloves with the Mets and really should have won the MVP in 2006 over Howard. He was not a bad contract.

Haha I forgot about that Mo Vaughn signing. God the Mets will throw money at anyone...

Mo Vaughn was signed by the Angels though.

[MadMan]

So Fukudome was traded to the Indians for two prospects. I cannot see an advantage to trading for an outfielder who slugs .403 career and hits around .260. I know he walks a lot, but those prospects, who haven't been revealed as far as I've read, better hold very little value.

I won't miss his under performing ass. No I did not expect him to hit home runs when he first came to the team, but his ever declining average over every season and the fact that the only really good thing he did was play defense led to me ripping him often.

So the fact they traded him for two prospects amazes me, actually. I guess the Indians wanted someone sub par to add to their lineup.

[Dukefrukem]

Beltran made 5 All Star games and 3 Gold Gloves with the Mets and really should have won the MVP in 2006 over Howard. He was not a bad contract.Mo Vaughn was signed by the Angels though.

I'm almost postivite though in order for that trade to work, the Mets agreed to eat that contract.

[Dukefrukem]

Beltran made 5 All Star games and 3 Gold Gloves with the Mets and really should have won the MVP in 2006 over Howard. He was not a bad contract.Mo Vaughn was signed by the Angels though.

So a 7-year, $119-million contract equals three years with 100+ RBI and then 48, 27 and 78 mixed in?

No.

[shaun]

RBI: A worthwhile stat to measure performance

[Benny Profane]

He underperformed the contract (mostly due to injury) but he still had years of very good production. So he's not a total bust, like some other guys. If you want to point to bad FA contracts I wouldn't think of him first.

[Dukefrukem]

RBI: A worthwhile stat to measure performance

He was paid to be a power guy. To drive guys in. You don't measure his stats in anyting else buy HR and RBI.

Crawford was signed to be a top of the order guy. Not to drive guys in. His stats are measure in hits, SBs and OBP.

[Dukefrukem]

He underperformed the contract (mostly due to injury) but he still had years of very good production. So he's not a total bust, like some other guys. If you want to point to bad FA contracts I wouldn't think of him first.

I'd think of the rest of the busts the Mets signed. Jason Bay also comes to mind.

[Benny Profane]

He was paid to be a power guy. To drive guys in. You don't measure his stats in anyting else buy HR and RBI.

Slugging percentage is a much better metric. You can't drive guys in if they're not on base, and that's not the fault of the batter. He slugged higher than .500 in 5 of 7 years of the contract.

Also, Beltran was one of the best all-around players when he signed. So they wanted more than just power from him. He had an OBP of .353 or higher for five years. He got steals before he was hurt, and he won three GGs.

[Robby P]

Carlos Beltran is already a borderline Hall of Famer, not a "bust", and he's only 34. He's probably one of the ten greatest center fielders of all time. Please don't compare him to Jason Bay.

[shaun]

You're hilariously blinded by your homerism. Jason Bay sucks but I can admit it. It's not like those thrifty Red Sox haven't doled out awful contracts on a regular basis.

John Lackey
Carl Crawford
JD Drew
Jose Offerman
Matsuzaka
Carl Everett
Julio Lugo <---haha

[Robby P]

Also, by Fangraphs' WAR values, Beltran was worth 129.2 million to the Mets (plus Zach Wheeler). They paid him 120MM.

[Dukefrukem]

Slugging percentage is a much better metric. You can't drive guys in if they're not on base, and that's not the fault of the batter. He slugged higher than .500 in 5 of 7 years of the contract.

Also, Beltran was one of the best all-around players when he signed. So they wanted more than just power from him. He had an OBP of .353 or higher for five years. He got steals before he was hurt, and he won three GGs.

Agreed but Power guys should put up 30-40 HRs. 50% of those would be assumed to be solo shots.

You're hilariously blinded by your homerism. Jason Bay sucks but I can admit it. It's not like those thrifty Red Sox haven't doled out awful contracts on a regular basis.

John Lackey
Carl Crawford
JD Drew
Jose Offerman
Matsuzaka
Carl Everett
Julio Lugo <---haha

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa WHOA.

1. You can't already call Lackey and Crawford bad signings. Unfair. Lackey just won 4 games in a row and gave up 4 runs or less in each start. If you're going to blame injury for Beltran not being great, it also applies to Crawford.

2. Dice K gave us a WS. This almost null and voids any discrimination against the player. Mets haven't won shit. Big difference here.

3. Carl Evertt wasn't a bad signing! two years of 30 HR and 100 RBI before the days of Manny. He was a great clean up hitter. Dude was a head case though which was fun. Part of the reason why I loved Manny so much. Made baseball games fun to watch.

4. The Lugo signing (which wasn't terrible at all... $36 million for 4 years) was bad towards the end, but Lugo had one of the best years of his carrier the year we won the WS. HE was the ONLY free agent SS available and he Sox needed to fill the spot. We just traded away Hanley, which if you're gonna say ANYTHING was a bad move call that a bad move, and didn't have any minor leaguers to fill that. However, we won a WS with what we got with Hanley, Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell... That combo null and voids any argument about Lugo.

5. JD Drew was the worst signing in the history of the Red Sox. I stand by this and I hated the signing the day it was made. It was even dragged out for weeks because the Sox didn't know how healthy he was. Jeeze what a mistake.

6. Offerman was also a bad signing, but different GM. So who cares at this point?


Bad signings are signings where you spend a lot and get a little. Is any signing that gets you a WS a bad signing????

[shaun]

Case rested. You tried to justify Dice-K's $103m over 5 years with the ring argument. Also Julio Lugo. You argue like a Yankees fan.

was also a bad signing, but different GM. So who cares at this point?

Then why are you bringing up Mets signings under an old GM?

[Dukefrukem]

Case rested. You tried to justify Dice-K's $103m over 5 years with the ring argument. Also Julio Lugo.

Then why are you bringing up Mets signings under an old GM?

Sorry worded that poorly. What I should have said was:

"Offerman was signed over 12-freakin years ago!"

The Dice-K contract is a different contract! The Sox are getting over 50% of merchandise sales from Japan with that deal. They got a WS and made up some of the cash.

All my counter-arguments are valid.

Drew was a bad signing. I am agreeing here. (even if the biggest hit of his carrier arguably got us to the WS)

[shaun]

In other news, holy shit. Poor guy.

Dennis Waszak Jr.
Wow: LOS ANGELES (AP) _ Authorities: Former #Yankees pitcher Hideki Irabu found dead in Los Angeles suburb, apparent suicide

[Dukefrukem]

Sorry worded that poorly. What I should have said was:

"Offerman was signed over 12-freakin years ago!"

The Dice-K contract is a different contract! The Sox are getting over 50% of merchandise sales from Japan with that deal. They got a WS and made up some of the cash.

All my counter-arguments are valid.

Drew was a bad signing. I am agreeing here. (even if the biggest hit of his carrier arguably got us to the WS)

Yup

The Walking Dead (J.D. Drew, Daisuke Matsuzaka)
Drew leaves Boston this winter with his incredible $14 million grand slam and a couple of seasons (2008 and 2009) that looked solid from a saber standpoint unless you were actually watching him every day and wondering if his body had blood in it. Dice-K goes down as one of the bigger Boston sports disappointments ever; even when he was pitching "well" in 2007 and 2008, you never felt like he could get past the sixth inning, and everything went so slowly that you could practically see thought bubbles forming over his fielders' heads like "I wish we could drink out here" and "Part of me just wants to run over and punch him from behind just to see if it would lead SportsCenter."

Together, they certainly weren't worth $71.1 million, much less $171.1 million. The worst part about them? They actually made me dislike myself. I always felt bad bitching about Drew because his son had health problems, and because it wasn't his fault that he lacked the everyday fire of, say, Trot Nixon. And I always felt bad bitching about Dice-K, who barely spoke English, missed the laborious routine of the Japanese league, struggled to deal with Boston and fit in about as well as Mitt Romney at an R. Kelly concert. If there's a silver lining, maybe Theo learned from the Drew/Dice/Renteria signings that certain personalities can't work in Boston regardless of what the numbers say; that's just one of the reasons they pursued Gonzalez so heavily, not just because advanced numbers said he would be a splendid fit for Fenway, but because his personality was such a good fit. A lesson learned, right?

[Ezee E]

LOL Cubs.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Really like the Tigers deal today. Fister and Pauley set with the team through 2015. They gave up a couple nice prospects, but the only one I'll really miss not seeing emerge is Martinez, but he was going to find it hard to make the team with Castellanos ahead of him at 3B.