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Thread: Celeb (and Celeb SO's) Sexual Harassment Thread

  1. #951
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    Dude, Purple, I don't know where you live, but in my state "sexual assault" is literally the legal terminology for rape. There's different degrees of sexual assault, but rape is still legally "sexual assault." This isn't controversial, it's the law.
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  2. #952
    Winston* Classic Winston*'s Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    In NZ, all judges in the Supreme Court must retire at 70. Appointments are made by the Attorney General, who is part of the sitting government. The candidates must be Court of Appeal or High Court judges. Seniority plays a major part in decisions, but is not a guarantee. No sitting judge has ever been removed before retirement.
    NZ's Supreme Court also doesn't have nearly the power that the US one does, which makes it a bit different.

  3. #953
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    Also, you'd have to be insane to think the third "witness" (rep'd by Michael "I'm running for president in 2020" Avenatti) isn't extremely questionable. She has a litigation sheet a mile long. That's a huge red flag for any lawyer (other than Michael Avenatti, apparently). She has been sued for defamation before by her ex employers (ask yourself: how many people do you know that have been sued by a former employer for defamation?). She has had former coworkers accuse her of inappropriate sexual behavior at work (corroborated by their HR dept). Her ex-boyfriend put a restraining order against her and said she wasn't credible. According to her own timeline she would have been in college while Kavanaugh was in high school. She would have kept going to "gang rape parties" multiple times, despite knowing there was a major felony occurring there. I mean, yeah sure, Kavanaugh may have been having systemic gang rape parties in high school, but wouldn't there be corroborating witnesses? I'm not even sure what she is accusing him of, since she claims she was raped at the party, but not by him. Apparently she is accusing him of waiting in line to gang rape another girl? Wouldn't that girl or any other girl come forward? Any other witnesses at all? There should be hundreds of them? Bueller?

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...accuser-845348
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  4. #954
    Quote Quoting Winston* (view post)
    NZ's Supreme Court also doesn't have nearly the power that the US one does, which makes it a bit different.
    True that.
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  5. #955
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  6. #956
    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    Dude, Purple, I don't know where you live, but in my state "sexual assault" is literally the legal terminology for rape. There's different degrees of sexual assault, but rape is still legally "sexual assault." This isn't controversial, it's the law.
    Yes, rape is clearly sexual assault. The term "sexual assault" does not necessarily mean rape. This is why we use the term "rape" for rape, so that it's clear.
    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    Also, you'd have to be insane to think the third "witness" (rep'd by Michael "I'm running for president in 2020" Avenatti) isn't extremely questionable. She has a litigation sheet a mile long. That's a huge red flag for any lawyer (other than Michael Avenatti, apparently). She has been sued for defamation before by her ex employers (ask yourself: how many people do you know that have been sued by a former employer for defamation?). She has had former coworkers accuse her of inappropriate sexual behavior at work (corroborated by their HR dept). Her ex-boyfriend put a restraining order against her and said she wasn't credible. According to her own timeline she would have been in college while Kavanaugh was in high school. She would have kept going to "gang rape parties" multiple times, despite knowing there was a major felony occurring there. I mean, yeah sure, Kavanaugh may have been having systemic gang rape parties in high school, but wouldn't there be corroborating witnesses? I'm not even sure what she is accusing him of, since she claims she was raped at the party, but not by him. Apparently she is accusing him of waiting in line to gang rape another girl? Wouldn't that girl or any other girl come forward? Any other witnesses at all? There should be hundreds of them? Bueller?

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...accuser-845348
    Fortunately, there are multiple other sources that corroborate pieces of Swetnick's testimony. This is why an investigation is important: One person making an allegation means nothing. Multiple people who have not spoken to each other making the same allegation is very, very troubling. This has already happened.

    There is no gang rape allegation against Kavanaugh, for the record. Read her statement. As for victims not coming forward, use common sense. Victims of drugging can't name their assaulters because they are either unconscious or unable to recall their assaulters, even if they find afterwards that they were certainly raped.

    As for the absolutely nonsensical line that there are "gang rape parties" that people can always know about beforehand, this is a FOX News talking point. This is not how real life works. This is how real life works: There is a party. Multiple people show up to this party from different groups of friends. Often you won't know who will show up. If you know of people who have done something in the past, and they do it at another party, and you didn't know that they were going to be there, then you can reliably say that they were "known" for this behavior and witness it multiple times without ever intentionally attending a party with them, ever.

    As for the age thing, given that Kavanaugh and his friends had a readily available source of alcohol before they were legally able to purchase it, it's likely that they partied with older people. To think something otherwise is absolutely silly.

    As for the idea that multiple men having sex with one woman is not credible, Judge's ex-girlfriend wants to confess to the FBI that Judge admitted as much to her, and Kavanaugh brags in his yearbook about the "devil's triangle", which is just that. The idea that this is so far-fetched just doesn't stack up to the evidence.

    I would be embarrassed for parroting the FOX News talking points. They're hilariously nonsensical.

    Think for yourself. Read journalists. Don't listen to pundits who only spin without accountability or integrity.
    Last edited by PURPLE; 10-02-2018 at 08:17 AM.

  7. #957
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting PURPLE (view post)
    Yes, rape is clearly sexual assault. The term "sexual assault" does not necessarily mean rape. This is why we use the term "rape" for rape, so that it's clear.
    Not legally. In my state in legal documents rape is always called "sexual assault."
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  8. #958
    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    Not legally. In my state in legal documents rape is always called "sexual assault."
    I don't know why you're so aware of the legal definitions of rape in your state. If you are that aware, then it should not confuse you as to why an assault of a sexual nature that is not a rape would be called a sexual assault. Where's the confusion?

    What I do know is that, in common conversation, it is most honest to use the most accurate commonly used word. You know what rape means. Apparently you know a lot about sexual assault. How is this confusing?

  9. #959
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    This isn't just FOX News. Politico broke the news re: Swetnick's exbf. Your're sounding like a shill for MSNBC which is equally embarrassing (more so these days). If you don't think Avenatti is absolute bottom dweller of epic proportions, I don't know what to tell you.
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  10. #960
    ...and as for the problem of "Wouldn't that girl or any other girl come forward? Any other witnesses at all? There should be hundreds of them? Bueller?", you clearly are either willfully ignorant of how sexual assault works or... I don't know. The information is out there. 40% of rape victims report their assault at some point. I would assume this is far less when it is a rape by multiple unknown men, given the extreme unlikelihood that anything will be done and the much higher potential for reprisals. This is just, you know, logic.

  11. #961
    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    This isn't just FOX News. Politico broke the news re: Swetnick's exbf. Your're sounding like a shill for MSNBC which is equally embarrassing (more so these days). If you don't think Avenatti is absolute bottom dweller of epic proportions, I don't know what to tell you.
    Swetnick's allegations don't mean anything on their own, so why would it matter what Politico says? Ronan Farrow has two sources corroborating parts of Swetnick's testimony. Christine Blasey Ford corroborates Swetnick's account. Deborah Ramirez and her friends are prepared to give statements to the FBI corroborating Swetnick's testimony of Kavanaugh's repeat behavior of sexual assault. Is Farrow a bottom dweller, and the other witnesses?

    What does Avenatti have to do with his client? And why do you actually know about Avenatti's history? I know only one thing - that he represents someone who actually got paid off for their silence. So, like, his client was telling the truth, you see.

    Are you going to shame his client for being a porn star, and shame him for having her as a client? So very, very FOX News.

  12. #962
    For the record, I don't watch MSNBC, I just read long-form journalism. Feel free to evade the overwhelming multitude of facts if you wish. I feel sorry for you, though - conservative men are going to be stuck in a political party with no women. That's not a place I want to be for so, so many reasons.

  13. #963
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    "Before airing the interview, Snow said: 'NBC News, for the record, has not been able to independently verify her claims. There are things she told us on camera that differ from her written statements last week.'"

    Even NBC is backtracking at this point. You're clearly brainwashed Purple, but hey, push Avenatti for president in 2020. That'll be the best joke yet.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...claims-1148414
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  14. #964
    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    "Before airing the interview, Snow said: 'NBC News, for the record, has not been able to independently verify her claims. There are things she told us on camera that differ from her written statements last week.'"

    Even NBC is backtracking at this point. You're clearly brainwashed Purple, but hey, push Avenatti for president in 2020. That'll be the best joke yet.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...claims-1148414
    NBC is not backtracking, they are accurately reporting.

    I am not backtracking, I am accurately reporting that she is but one witness. Without a single word from her, Kavanaugh has an overwhelming amount of evidence against him. This is not a single chain where any one link breaks the whole; this is a large pie where any one piece taken out leaves a whole lot of pie. Try a rational angle, not a nonsensical one.

  15. #965
    Do you know why Farrow's previous pieces have not had to mention "The New Yorker has not been able to independently verify the claims in this piece"? Because long-form journalism allows the time for journalists to interview many, many sources and cross-check facts. When an accuser comes forward less than one week ago and has less than one week and a half until an artificially imposed deadline, journalists cannot cross-check and independently verify facts. Thus, there are only two choices: Do not air the story until claims can be independently verified, or clarify that the story has not been independently verified. In this case, the former is insufficient because of the timeline. This is just basic journalistic ethics.

    The fact that you confuse basic journalistic ethics for backtracking is confusing. Did you think this yourself, or is this a talking point that you heard and didn't question? Either one is puzzling.

    FROM THE ARTICLE YOU POSTED BUT DIDN'T READ:

    "After the interview, Snow told MSNBC anchor Ari Melber, "We're not discounting what she said in any way. We're just doing our reporting. ... There are a lot of people working on this.""

  16. #966
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    Ronan Sinatra can't even be honest about his own father. Why would I trust him?
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  17. #967
    If that's the level of discourse I can expect here, I guess you're hopeless. Enjoy your party of sexual abusers and nobody else.

  18. #968
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting PURPLE (view post)
    If that's the level of discourse I can expect here, I guess you're hopeless. Enjoy your party of sexual abusers and nobody else.
    I'm independent and didn't vote for Trump. I just don't like what the Democrat party has turned into, and I know I'm not alone. I'm very much pro legal diligence and absolutely think "innocent until proven guilty" is one of our most sacred bedrocks in the USA. Anyway, I'll yield to Alan Dershowitz:

    https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciar...e-consequences

    As for party of "sex abusers" I'll yield to exit polls of white women voting majority Trump:
    https://www.nbcnews.com/card/nbc-new...-women-n681011
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  19. #969
    On the open range MadMan's Avatar
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    Pop's last post reminds me of those people who say they don't support the Dems because of SJW....

  20. #970
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    I really long for the innocent days in this thread of wishing to get banged by Asia Argento when the news of her alleged sexual assault of a boy came up...
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  21. #971
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    I don't agree with everything Pop Trash is saying. However, I do feel that there are a few problems with the way Democrats/liberals/whatever are handling these situations:

    1. Rushing to judgment and having a hot take at the first sign of a news story. If you think you already know what's right and wrong in the first fifteen minutes of a breaking case of sexual harassment, you're probably not being too thoughtful. Wait for the facts to come in.
    2. Ignoring relevant information that does not fit your preferred narrative. Life is complicated. People are complicated. Relationships are complicated. Sometimes people are just flat-out villains, as it appears Harvey Weinstein is. Sometimes the truth is a little less clear cut.
    3. "Rounding up" to the supposed violation that best supports your desired level of outrage. For some reason, people get all worked up when you try to clarify the gradation someone's past behavior. It's important though, in order to properly judge what kind of atonement is appropriate. Justice helps the overall cause, injustice gives it the air of illegitimacy and provides justification for apologists.

    I think a lot of this has to do with the mania inspired by the current "president". People are afraid that if they don't act decisively and with ferocity that they will be dismissed and ignored.
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  22. #972
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    Thank you, Spinal. At least you are being rational. I simply don't like the direction of "well, if I disagree with his politics, so it's ok" or that the GOP is the "immoral" party so any allegation against them is acceptable. This was the type of crap the GOP used to do to Democrats back in the 80s and 90s in the name of "moral majority" or whatever and it sucked then and sucks today. The weird thing is that Kavanaugh until recently was considered moderate center-right in his judicial record and was considered a relief nominee when Trump could have nominated Amy Coney Barrett, who is a much more hard line conservative and more likely to not support Roe v. Wade, but hey, she's a woman so she probably has a clean sex assault record.

    Spinal, I don't know when you graduated high school, but I think you are a few years older than me. I was a kid then, but I don't remember people discussing "date rape" much as a thing until maybe the 90s. I was talking about this with a friend recently, but even some of the more controversial aspects of movies like 16 Candles, were never really brought up until the 00s. I do remember discussing how cringey Long Duk Dong seemed when I rewatched it around 2005, but I don't remember even at that time people considering Anthony Michael Hall's character to be a possible date rapist. My friend (who is in his 30s like me) basically stated that people shouldn't emulate movies, that people get murdered, etc. but if you watch, I dunno, Scarface or whatever there's a clear presentation of an immoral character that I don't think people saw in the 80s in Anthony Michael Hall's character or the (now) infamous non-consensual cunnilingus scene in Revenge of the Nerds. I think people just viewed these things as "wacky hijinks" which leads me to believe that the line was much more blurry in the 80s (or even to a lesser extent in the 90s) about what was "dude, bitchin' party my bro" and what was legit sexual assault. I feel like only people in their 30s, 40s, or 50s would even know what I'm talking about.
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  23. #973
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    “It’s okay when my party does it” is the crux of why America’s political stage is completely broken right now.

    If Obama had said / done even a minuscule fraction of the things Trump has said / done, Republicans would have had him impeached before his first year was up. But since Trump is a republican and (even more importantly) protecting their financial interests, he’s just “a guy who says what’s on his mind!”

    Heck, the Republicans still won’t let go of the desire to investigate Hillary Clinton’s emails, but couldn’t be bothered to spare more than a week of time to investigate allegations of sexual assault and rape against one of their own.

    If America doesn’t want to continue to elicit a mixture of laughter and horror from the rest of the world, both parties (because honestly, vote independent all you want but it’s a two party system) need to grow the hell up and demand better not only of each other but of themselves.

  24. #974
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    As I've said many times when these kind of things pop up the rest of the world mostly regards Americans as invaders and usurers due to their foreign policy and that remains the same whether Democrats or Republicans are in office.

    The reason I think few people distrust the accusations against this Kavaunagh guy is because they took place during a period where he was a rich frat boy and, historically, that's what rich frat boys do - rape women and get away with it.

  25. #975
    The Pan Spinal's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    The reason I think few people distrust the accusations against this Kavaunagh guy is because they took place during a period where he was a rich frat boy and, historically, that's what rich frat boys do - rape women and get away with it.
    Distrust the accusations? Or distrust Kavanaugh?
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