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    22 84.62%
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Thread: mother! (Darren Aronofsky)

  1. #26
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Spinal (view post)
    Not sure why this is so bewildering to people. It's really just an extended nightmare film from the perspective of Lawrence's character mixed with a straightforward metaphor about human suffering. I liked it. Favorite Aronofsky since Requiem for a Dream (I skipped Noah).
    Yeah, agreed. I loved the film, I think it's Aronofsky's best since The Fountain (and for me that's high praise), but it wasn't nearly as confusing as it was painted out to be. It's very complex, but not random or bananas.

    Anyway, early on during the film I felt echoes of Rosemary's Baby and that led me to think about what this material would be like directed by Roman Polanski. Aronofsky's style has changed a lot over the years and the first person approach to directing that started with The Wrestler is at its most blatant here. But somehow, the escalating absurdity of this story is something that I can picture Polanski mastering quite well.

    I don't know, I'm still thinking about it, but it's a great piece of psychological Horror and probably my favorite Lawrence performance to date. Michelle Pfeiffer was also excellent.

  2. #27
    the maker of my own evil Ivan Drago's Avatar
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    Just realized I never posted my thoughts on this, which are in the second paragraph of this group review:

    https://615film.com/2017/09/19/the-6...ofskys-mother/
    Last Five Films I've Seen

    Halloween (Green, 2018) 9.5
    The House With A Clock In Its Walls (Roth, 2018) 6
    Life Itself (Fogelman, 2018) 2.5
    Widows (McQueen, 2018) 9.5
    Venom (Fleischer, 2018) 2.5
    First Man (Chazelle, 2018) 9
    Let The Corpses Tan (Cattet/Forzani, 2018) 8
    Assassination Nation (Levinson, 2018) 9

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  3. #28

    mother! (Darren Aronofsky)

    55/100
    An exemplary case of artistic courage; there is no underestimating the fearlessness required to tackle such an analogy, and Im glad someone has finally done it. For too long the human morality and philosophical ramifications of the John Farnham sequence from Hot Rod have remained unexplored. I applaud you, Aronofsky, I truly do.
    Last 10 Movies Seen

    You Were Never Really Here
    (2018) 74
    A Quiet Place
    (2018) 65
    The Little Mermaid (1989) 59
    /The Lion King (1994) 55
    The Sheriff in Town
    (2017) 42
    /Pacific Heights (1990) 62

    Ready Player One
    (2018) 53

    /Deadpool
    (2016) 67
    Along with the Gods: The Two Worlds (2017) 61
    The Death of Stalin (2017) 67

    Stuff at Letterboxd


  4. #29
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Do I detect irony?

  5. #30
    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    Do I detect irony?
    For your viewing pleasure:

    https://youtu.be/jVjgY427qW8
    Last 10 Movies Seen

    You Were Never Really Here
    (2018) 74
    A Quiet Place
    (2018) 65
    The Little Mermaid (1989) 59
    /The Lion King (1994) 55
    The Sheriff in Town
    (2017) 42
    /Pacific Heights (1990) 62

    Ready Player One
    (2018) 53

    /Deadpool
    (2016) 67
    Along with the Gods: The Two Worlds (2017) 61
    The Death of Stalin (2017) 67

    Stuff at Letterboxd


  6. #31
    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    Yeah, agreed. I loved the film, I think it's Aronofsky's best since The Fountain (and for me that's high praise), but it wasn't nearly as confusing as it was painted out to be. It's very complex, but not random or bananas.

    Anyway, early on during the film I felt echoes of Rosemary's Baby and that led me to think about what this material would be like directed by Roman Polanski. Aronofsky's style has changed a lot over the years and the first person approach to directing that started with The Wrestler is at its most blatant here. But somehow, the escalating absurdity of this story is something that I can picture Polanski mastering quite well.

    I don't know, I'm still thinking about it, but it's a great piece of psychological Horror and probably my favorite Lawrence performance to date. Michelle Pfeiffer was also excellent.
    For me, it's the comparison with Polanski (and Franz Kafka) that points to the film's fundamental failure: In Rosemary's Baby, Polanski grounds his story in just enough realistic detail that one can take its premise sort of seriously; this movie, on the other hand, is pure allegory from the get-go. (If Aronofsky had any interest in actual poets, he'd know that most can't support themselves on their art alone, much less inspire obsessed fans to surreptitiously move into their houses, skank wife in tow; evidently, it's only the allegorical significance of the profession--Poet as Maker--that he's interested in.) Thus, instead of gradually ratcheting up the tension as Polanski does, the movie starts out crazy and then has to keep topping itself, which makes it hard to believe very seriously in anything that happens to the characters, especially in the last forty minutes or so, though it's still too unpleasant simply to laugh it off as a camp hoot.
    Just because...
    A Star Is Born (Bradley Cooper, 2018) mild
    Mekong Hotel (Apichatpong Weerasethakul, 2012) mild
    A Letter to Three Wives (Joseph L. Mankiewicz, 1949) warm

    The last book I read was...
    The Philosophical Hitchcock: Vertigo and the Anxieties of Unknowingness by Robert B. Pippin


    The (New) World

  7. #32
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    For me, it's the comparison with Polanski (and Franz Kafka) that points to the film's fundamental failure: In Rosemary's Baby, Polanski grounds his story in just enough realistic detail that one can take its premise sort of seriously; this movie, on the other hand, is pure allegory from the get-go. (If Aronofsky had any interest in actual poets, he'd know that most can't support themselves on their art alone, much less inspire obsessed fans to surreptitiously move into their houses, skank wife in tow; evidently, it's only the allegorical significance of the profession--Poet as Maker--that he's interested in.) Thus, instead of gradually ratcheting up the tension as Polanski does, the movie starts out crazy and then has to keep topping itself, which makes it hard to believe very seriously in anything that happens to the characters, especially in the last forty minutes or so, though it's still too unpleasant simply to laugh it off as a camp hoot.
    Yeah, this was pretty much what I was thinking about without the jabs at this film - that Polanski's cinematic world would seem much more natural from the start, while Aronofsky tends to ramp things up to eleven stylistically as well as thematically. I also prefer Roman's style.

  8. #33
    For the record, I'd still give the film a "yay," if only because it's such an audacious and exciting failure.
    Just because...
    A Star Is Born (Bradley Cooper, 2018) mild
    Mekong Hotel (Apichatpong Weerasethakul, 2012) mild
    A Letter to Three Wives (Joseph L. Mankiewicz, 1949) warm

    The last book I read was...
    The Philosophical Hitchcock: Vertigo and the Anxieties of Unknowingness by Robert B. Pippin


    The (New) World

  9. #34
    Moderator Dead & Messed Up's Avatar
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    Respect its balls to the wall insanity, and interested in its image systems. Grows repetitious at times, as the film - as others say - can't really operate with any semi-plausible emotional drama. Either you're willing to wait for the allegorical punchline, or you're not. Weirdly, that meant that while the first half carried more intrigue and mystery and suspense, the second half captured my imagination more in its figurative traipse through the hells of human faith. And the conclusion with the baby - I can only imagine what the moviegoers on opening weekend thought.


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  10. #35
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dead & Messed Up (view post)
    Respect its balls to the wall insanity, and interested in its image systems. Grows repetitious at times, as the film - as others say - can't really operate with any semi-plausible emotional drama. Either you're willing to wait for the allegorical punchline, or you're not. Weirdly, that meant that while the first half carried more intrigue and mystery and suspense, the second half captured my imagination more in its figurative traipse through the hells of human faith. And the conclusion with the baby - I can only imagine what the moviegoers on opening weekend thought.
    See, I never had the pleasure(?) of seeing it in its regular release, but the festival audience here seemed to be a chorus made up of gasps, open-jawed scoffs, "Ah wuutt"'s, with a whisper of chuckles in there. (Mine was a strong mixture of options 2 and 4 there.)
    BlacKkKlansman (Lee, 2018) **** / 9.1
    Murder On The Orient Express (Branagh, 2017) *** / 8.3
    Mission: Impossible Fallout (McQuarrie, 2018) *** / 8.8
    Blindspotting (Estrada, 2018) *** / 8.4
    Leave No Trace (Granik, 2018) *** / 8.6
    Eighth Grade (Burnham, 2018) *** / 8.5
    Sorry To Bother You (Riley, 2018) **** / 9.2
    Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (Bayona, 2018) ** / 5.9
    2001: A Space Odyssey [in 70mm] (Kubrick, 1968) **** / 10

  11. #36
    The first half is great. The last half is sophomoric and as a result unintentionally hilarious. So.... mild yay?
    Last 10 Movies Seen

    You Were Never Really Here
    (2018) 74
    A Quiet Place
    (2018) 65
    The Little Mermaid (1989) 59
    /The Lion King (1994) 55
    The Sheriff in Town
    (2017) 42
    /Pacific Heights (1990) 62

    Ready Player One
    (2018) 53

    /Deadpool
    (2016) 67
    Along with the Gods: The Two Worlds (2017) 61
    The Death of Stalin (2017) 67

    Stuff at Letterboxd


  12. #37
    Kung Fu Hippie Watashi's Avatar
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    I generally hate Aronofsky films, but haha oh god, did I love this. It's starts off as an intense nightmare for anyone who doesn't like having people over, but then it turns into a fucking circus, and I was like, "I get you, Darren. Fuck being subtle. Just go for the throat."

    I was cackling during the second half, which I think was the point? God, I hope so.
    Sure why not?

    STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI (Rian Johnson) - 9
    STRONGER (David Gordon Green) - 6
    THE DISASTER ARTIST (James Franco) - 7
    THE FLORIDA PROJECT (Sean Baker) - 9
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  13. #38
    Moderator Dead & Messed Up's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    The first half is great. The last half is sophomoric and as a result unintentionally hilarious. So.... mild yay?
    If Aronofsky wasn't going for pitch-black comedy in the final act, I don't even know what his interests were.

    [
    ]

    Sidebar: was reading on Jewish folklore today and came across this synchronous little tidbit.

    [
    ]

    Makes sense. Aronofsky shoved a lot of Jewish folklore, Kabbala, and aprocrypha into Pi and Noah.

  14. #39
    I think he was going for pitch-black comedy, but it is much, much goofier and stupider than that would imply
    Last 10 Movies Seen

    You Were Never Really Here
    (2018) 74
    A Quiet Place
    (2018) 65
    The Little Mermaid (1989) 59
    /The Lion King (1994) 55
    The Sheriff in Town
    (2017) 42
    /Pacific Heights (1990) 62

    Ready Player One
    (2018) 53

    /Deadpool
    (2016) 67
    Along with the Gods: The Two Worlds (2017) 61
    The Death of Stalin (2017) 67

    Stuff at Letterboxd


  15. #40
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    The first half is great. The last half is sophomoric and as a result unintentionally hilarious. So.... mild yay?
    Yeah, I don't think Aronofsky is going for comedy in that last act. He's never had a comedic bone.

    Whenever I think of the movie, I think of that first half, which is why I have it in my top ten. The second half is also pretty damn unique on its own, but... I think a rewatch would make me realize it's not quite that special.

    First Man - ***
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  16. #41
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    Yeah, I don't think Aronofsky is going for comedy in that last act. He's never had a comedic bone.
    Oh I disagree. Even Requiem for a Dream had a lot of dark humor (the mother on speed cleaning up her house, the refrigerator coming "alive," the game show host (who also shows up on the DVD menu)). There's a sort of ridiculous no-fucks-given aspect of his films that you laugh at the audacity of it all, but I definitely think the humor of the house being trashed by the interloping mob is intentional. It's straight out of The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeois.
    Ratings on a 1-10 scale for your pleasure:

    First Man - 8
    A Star Is Born (2018) - 7
    Venom - 6
    Sixteen Candles - 7
    A Simple Favor - 7
    The Predator - 5
    The Godfather - 10
    Touch of Evil - 8
    BlacKkKlansman - 6
    Eighth Grade - 8

  17. #42
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    Oh I disagree. Even Requiem for a Dream had a lot of dark humor (the mother on speed cleaning up her house, the refrigerator coming "alive," the game show host (who also shows up on the DVD menu)). There's a sort of ridiculous no-fucks-given aspect of his films that you laugh at the audacity of it all, but I definitely think the humor of the house being trashed by the interloping mob is intentional. It's straight out of The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeois.
    Fair enough. And I remember the person sitting on the sink that eventually breaks was definitely intentional funny.

    First Man - ***
    The Sisters Brothers - *** 1/2
    Mandy - ***


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  18. #43
    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    There's a sort of ridiculous no-fucks-given aspect of his films that you laugh at the audacity of it all, but I definitely think the humor of the house being trashed by the interloping mob is intentional. It's straight out of The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeois.
    Quote Quoting Luis Buuel on writing "Le Charme discret de la bourgeoisie"
    It was long, hard work, particularly because it was crucial to maintain a sufficient degree of realism in the midst of this delirium. The script went through five different versions while we tried to combine realism—the situation had to be familiar and develop logically—and the accumulation of strange, but not fantastical, obstacles.
    This is why Buuel is a genius and Aronofsky is just ambitious.
    Just because...
    A Star Is Born (Bradley Cooper, 2018) mild
    Mekong Hotel (Apichatpong Weerasethakul, 2012) mild
    A Letter to Three Wives (Joseph L. Mankiewicz, 1949) warm

    The last book I read was...
    The Philosophical Hitchcock: Vertigo and the Anxieties of Unknowingness by Robert B. Pippin


    The (New) World

  19. #44
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    This is why Buuel is a genius and Aronofsky is just ambitious.
    I don't know if Aronofsky is a genius, but he's definitely something. mother! is the weirdest American film to get an opening weekend wide release since Spring Breakers.
    Ratings on a 1-10 scale for your pleasure:

    First Man - 8
    A Star Is Born (2018) - 7
    Venom - 6
    Sixteen Candles - 7
    A Simple Favor - 7
    The Predator - 5
    The Godfather - 10
    Touch of Evil - 8
    BlacKkKlansman - 6
    Eighth Grade - 8

  20. #45
    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    I don't know if Aronofsky is a genius, but he's definitely something. mother! is the weirdest American film to get an opening weekend wide release since Spring Breakers.
    Weird is not the same as good, and how wide a release a particular film gets is irrelevant to my personal pleasure (which is the only thing I care about). So I don't know why we're supposed to be rooting for drooling idiots to watch weirder films--especially weird films that aren't very good. What's the point? Is Hollywood suddenly going to realize there's an enormously lucrative market for weird films and give directors lots of money to let their freak flag fly? The market for weird films is what it's always been (relatively small), and the people who want to see weird films can generally find them. If hicks in flyover states want to watch bland franchise films, that's their business, and what I watch is my business. Not everything has to be for everybody.
    Just because...
    A Star Is Born (Bradley Cooper, 2018) mild
    Mekong Hotel (Apichatpong Weerasethakul, 2012) mild
    A Letter to Three Wives (Joseph L. Mankiewicz, 1949) warm

    The last book I read was...
    The Philosophical Hitchcock: Vertigo and the Anxieties of Unknowingness by Robert B. Pippin


    The (New) World

  21. #46
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Eh, it's not really that simple. "Hicks" might be used and brought up on Hollywood films, but the reason they never watched anything else also has to do with its lack of availability. Personal taste is not created in a vacuum.

    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    Is Hollywood suddenly going to realize there's an enormously lucrative market for weird films and give directors lots of money to let their freak flag fly?
    Happened once during the 1970s.

  22. #47
    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    Eh, it's not really that simple. "Hicks" might be used and brought up on Hollywood films, but the reason they never watched anything else also has to do with its lack of availability. Personal taste is not created in a vacuum.

    Happened once during the 1970s.
    First of all, I think people have a lot more options than they generally realize. There isn't this great crisis in distribution where people who want to watch Pedro Costa movies can't access them. If anything, between DVDs, torrents, and different streaming services, people have never had so many options to choose from. And as long as I can see the films I want to see, it doesn't matter to me if everyone else on the planet is watching Star Wars, or if they're incapable of sitting still for an old Billy Wilder film because it's too "slow" for them (i.e., not superficially busy enough). To go back to 1970s Hollywood, the classic films of that era--McCabe & Mrs. Miller, Night Moves, The Deer Hunter, etc.--have already been made. So even if Hollywood studios ceased to produce even the small number of quality films that they currently put out, it wouldn't be a tragedy to me because there are already so many great Hollywood films from the past that I can watch (to say nothing of independent films and films from other countries).
    Just because...
    A Star Is Born (Bradley Cooper, 2018) mild
    Mekong Hotel (Apichatpong Weerasethakul, 2012) mild
    A Letter to Three Wives (Joseph L. Mankiewicz, 1949) warm

    The last book I read was...
    The Philosophical Hitchcock: Vertigo and the Anxieties of Unknowingness by Robert B. Pippin


    The (New) World

  23. #48
    good for health Skitch's Avatar
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    Wow, went into this thinking [
    ] Did not expect that. When it was over I didn't much like it because its basically Anxiety: The Movie, but the more I thought about it and picked out more of the analogies, the more I respect the work. Its still a little too harsh to be watched for entertainment often unless you like being depressed.

  24. #49
    Moderator Dead & Messed Up's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    Wow, went into this thinking [
    ] Did not expect that. When it was over I didn't much like it because its basically Anxiety: The Movie, but the more I thought about it and picked out more of the analogies, the more I respect the work. Its still a little too harsh to be watched for entertainment often unless you like being depressed.
    I heard you on the Anxiety: The Movie. A week after watching the movie, I had maybe the worst nightmare of my life, and it was the premise of mother! but with a little personal subconscious tailoring.

    So, uh, thanks, Darren, I guess.

  25. #50
    Replacing Luck Since 1984
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    My god. This is going in my top 100.

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    A bunch of crap until Infinity War

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