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Thread: Once Upon a Time in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino)

  1. #326
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    Curious, why so low on "Reservoir Dogs"?
    Watching it now, it's just kind of by-the-numbers to me.

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  2. #327
    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    I don't think he went through the motions on "Jackie Brown" at all. If he did, he wouldn't have gotten great performances out of Robert Forster and Pam Grier.

    I think the movie is Tarantino's attempt at being an Adult in the Room and a Professional in the Film Industry. He'd just won an Oscar for "Pulp Fiction" and, afaik, didn't join the Director's Guild until after that film was made. (And when JB was a relative failure, getting a muted reaction from fans and critics, QT went and sulked for 6 years, then returned with the hyper-stylized "Kill Bill" and a much more overt style, which he hasn't deviated from since.)

    QT made major changes to "Rum Punch" and its characters and doesn't try to match that book's tone. "Jackie Brown" is much less mercenary and violent than the novel it's based on, and QT can't get out of his own way; he only uses Leonard's work for its raw structure and a few character outlines and nothing else. (I'd say "Get Shorty" is better at capturing Leonard's tone, but then "Get Shorty" is a different kind of novel.)
    It’s been some years since I read Rum Punch but this is not how I remember the novel. The plot is nearly identical to the film, with some sections removed. He changed some obvious character details about the main character, and the intro borrows stylistically from the blaxploitation genre, but even that aspect isn’t really followed through on for the rest of the film.

    Part of my sense that Tarantino went through the motions on the film are from his own words. There’s interview out there somewhere where he admitted that, while he would’ve “literally died” to capture the shot he wanted on Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction, he never felt that way about Jackie Brown. It was the first time he felt his life was more important than the film he was making. I’m guessing that changed after he took the hiatus after Jackie Brown.
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  3. #328
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    Quote Quoting DavidSeven (view post)
    It’s been some years since I read Rum Punch but this is not how I remember the novel. The plot is nearly identical to the film, with some sections removed. He changed some obvious character details about the main character, and the intro borrows stylistically from the blaxploitation genre, but even that aspect isn’t really followed through on for the rest of the film.
    The relationships are the same and the beats are similar but ... QT eliminated most of the subplots and greatly reduced the appearance of several characters, such as Melanie (Bridget Fonda) and Ray Nicolette (Michael Keaton). Melanie, in particular, has a substantial role in the book that doesn't exist in the movie; she's instrumental in Ordell's (Sam Jackson) attempt to rip off neo-Nazi gun runners. QT also removed any mention of Ordell's other girlfriends, who aren't key players but add a lot to the book's flavor.

    "Rum Punch's" characters are more desperate --- everybody, including the cops, behaves in a completely mercenary way --- and the choices they make are more violent. Ray Nicolette's partner isn't really a presence in "Jackie Brown," but in the book there's important subplot where he almost gets killed by Ordell's henchmen. And when Ordell and Louis (Robert DeNiro) fuck up and almost die at the hands those neo-Nazis, it's Melanie who walks into the room and starts murdering skinheads. Not in a flashy "AK-47, when you absolutely have to kill every motherfucker in the room" way, but in a cold-blooded, matter of fact way. In another novel she'd have been a femme fatale, but this is Leonard and South Florida and she's more like rough trade with a snub nose pistol.

    The biggest difference is that QT removed or reduced the role of the female characters. In the book, the men posture and talk a lot of shit, but it's the women who are a little bit smarter and a lot more dangerous. (Jackie's biggest problem isn't Ordell or Ray, but Melanie, who figures out what Jackie's doing long before they do.) There's a moment in the book when Ordell acknowledges this danger about one his girlfriends, but he passes it off as a joke about the way she fucks.

    TL; DR: A movie is gonna movie, I guess, but there's a whole lotta small nuances to Leonard's novel that are wholly absent from QT's film. The only thing that survives is the romance between Jackie and Max (Robert Forester), and I put that down to the performances, not QT's writing.

    Part of my sense that Tarantino went through the motions on the film are from his own words. There’s interview out there somewhere where he admitted that, while he would’ve “literally died” to capture the shot he wanted on Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction, he never felt that way about Jackie Brown. It was the first time he felt his life was more important than the film he was making. I’m guessing that changed after he took the hiatus after Jackie Brown.
    I don't expect you to dig it up --- but I'd be interested in knowing when QT said that, as a matter of trivia. He's said similarly disparaging things about "Death Proof" --- I take such comments as sorta acknowledging those films weren't critically or commercially successful as he would have liked, because QT has no other choice but to admit it if he wants to appear even vaguely honest.

    I don't buy into it too much, though, with regards to him "going through the motions." The guy's got waaaaaaaaay too much of an ego to ever do that.
    Last edited by Irish; 03-22-2019 at 06:35 AM.

  4. #329
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    Reservoir Dogs - 5
    Pulp Fiction - 8
    Jackie Brown - 6
    Kill Bill Vol 1 - 5.5
    Kill Bill Vol 2 - 5
    Death Proof - 3
    Inglorious Basterds - 9

  5. #330
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    The only movie I've quoted more times than Pulp Fiction is probably Ghostbusters.
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  6. #331
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    I feel like I want to answer Irish's post about Jackie Brown but his readings of the novel and the film are so different to mine than I don't know where to begin.

  7. #332
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    I find the love Tarantino gets perplexing.

    Maybe I’m just looking for something different in movies.

    Occasionally clever dialogue + constant vintage pop culture references =/= great filmmaking to me.

    He’s like high brow Family Guy.

  8. #333
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting megladon8 (view post)
    I find the love Tarantino gets perplexing.

    Maybe I’m just looking for something different in movies.

    Occasionally clever dialogue + constant vintage pop culture references =/= great filmmaking to me.

    He’s like high brow Family Guy.
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  9. #334
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    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    I feel like I want to answer Irish's post about Jackie Brown but his readings of the novel and the film are so different to mine than I don't know where to begin.
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  10. #335
    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    I don't expect you to dig it up --- but I'd be interested in knowing when QT said that, as a matter of trivia. He's said similarly disparaging things about "Death Proof" --- I take such comments as sorta acknowledging those films weren't critically or commercially successful as he would have liked, because QT has no other choice but to admit it if he wants to appear even vaguely honest.
    I had a hunch that I might have heard it in an episode of "Iconoclasts" with Tarantino and Fiona Apple, and I was right! The remark is about five minutes into this clip. This was filmed around the time he was filming Death Proof. Your point about his assessment of his own work is well taken though. I've also heard him say disparaging things about Death Proof, and I personally think it's one of his best made films.
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  11. #336
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/li...s-best/detail/

    The only movie I've quoted more times than Pulp Fiction is probably Ghostbusters.
    I would run entire scenes with a former co-worker. He would be Jules and I'd be Vincent. Fun times. Ghostbusters is another one I know entire stretches of dialogue from. Some others: Ferris Bueller's Day Off, The Breakfast Club, Stand By Me, Dumb & Dumber.
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  12. #337
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    Watching it now, it's just kind of by-the-numbers to me.
    There was nothing really like it when it came out.
    Ratings on a 1-10 scale for your pleasure:

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  13. #338
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    Quote Quoting DavidSeven (view post)
    I had a hunch that I might have heard it in an episode of "Iconoclasts" with Tarantino and Fiona Apple, and I was right! The remark is about five minutes into this clip. This was filmed around the time he was filming Death Proof. Your point about his assessment of his own work is well taken though. I've also heard him say disparaging things about Death Proof, and I personally think it's one of his best made films.
    Holy shit, that's terrific! Thanks for digging it up!

    ETA: Also interesting that he said these things 8 years after JB's release and around the time he was making "Death Proof"
    Last edited by Irish; 03-22-2019 at 07:17 PM.

  14. #339
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Let's all not overlook the fact that Meg just compared Quentin Tarantino to Seth McFarlane.
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    Obviously, Meg is a ... BULLSHIT ARTIST

  16. #341
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    Let's all not overlook the fact that Meg just compared Quentin Tarantino to Seth McFarlane.
    I think it’s an apt comparison.

    Both have incredibly loyal fan bases who insist they are brilliant writers.

    Both rely heavily on pop culture references, and constantly nudging the audience with their elbow and saying “do you get that? That reference there...did you get it??”

    MacFarlane tends to do it for comedic purposes, whereas Tarantino seems like some insecure teenager on the internet trying to flee his film cred muscles.

  17. #342
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    Obviously, Meg is a ... BULLSHIT ARTIST
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Irish again.

  18. #343
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting megladon8 (view post)
    I think it’s an apt comparison.

    Both rely heavily on pop culture references, and constantly nudging the audience with their elbow and saying “do you get that? That reference there...did you get it??”

    MacFarlane tends to do it for comedic purposes, whereas Tarantino seems like some insecure teenager on the internet trying to flee his film cred muscles.
    I'm not seeing the similarities at all.
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  19. #344
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    Obviously, Meg is a ... BULLSHIT ARTIST
    Hey...did you do a write up on that yet?

  20. #345
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    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    Hey...did you do a write up on that yet?
    Nope! I added a few lines to the official thread after you bumped it but nothing substantial.

  21. #346
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    I'm not seeing the similarities at all.
    I do. I think Meg's analogy is pretty apt.

    The biggest difference is that McFarlane makes the reference --- as most pop culture does --- to make audience feel smart, like we "get it," like we're in the know and in on the joke. He wants to entertain.

    QT wants everybody to have a good time too, but his references a purposefully obscure. (So much so that the fanboy sites publish detailed lists of them after the movie premieres.)

    I remember seeing a YouTube vid about a scene in "Kill Bill," when Daryl Hannah walks into the hospital where Uma Thurman was, and it broke down the two or three films Tarantino cited in like a 90 second sequence.

    Which was neat but it inadvertently revealed that QT's references are totally empty, making a pastiche to no purpos. It's just a laundry list of things Tarantino saw and thought were cool. Which is fine, I guess? But only interesting if you want to win at bar trivia.

  22. #347
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    I mean, a homage is a homage. It's not nearly the same thing as what Family Guy does. What is QTing teaching us? That the Bride wears Bruce Lee's Game of Death attire? That spaghetti westerns was a thing? That Snowblood was a thing?
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  23. #348
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    He’s not teaching us anything and that’s the entire problem.

    It’s completely empty reference, there just for the purpose of likeminded film junkies being able to say “I got it!”

    The conversation about car chases in Death Proof is some of the worst shit ever. Seriously just QT making us watch him jerk off.

  24. #349
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Conversation is different than what you're talking about. That's dialog in a script.

    Homage are all empty references. That's the whole point.

    This is an example of a totally empty reference, not meant to teach anything...

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    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  25. #350
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    I mean, a homage is a homage. It's not nearly the same thing as what Family Guy does. What is QTing teaching us? That the Bride wears Bruce Lee's Game of Death attire? That spaghetti westerns was a thing? That Snowblood was a thing?
    Not sure what you mean by "teaching us" ... ?

    Anyway, this is the clip about "Kill Bill" I was thinking of. (It's starts around 12:50 )

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