Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins)

[number8]

Hey, that reminds me of something. After I saw Atomic Blonde, I heard two observations about the way Charlize was portrayed in it that didn't even register with me, and both were made by women, if that matters.

My partner thought the costuming in the movie was fucking genius. She was going on and on about how Charlize's outfits were these high-waisted short skirts that made her legs look extra long. I noticed that too and thought they made her look really good, but apparently my partner was struck by how imposing it made her look throughout the movie. The long legs, plus the heels, made her tower over McAvoy and Boutella and basically everyone else in the movie.

The other is from NPR's Linda Holmes, who when talking about the movie said she thought it was interesting that Charlize has several nude scenes in the movie and the movie makes her look her worst in them. Anytime she's fully clothed, she's very sexy. Her clothes and her hair are perfect, she walks in this seductive way, and the camera makes her look like she's in a fashion shoot. When she's naked or in her underwear/towel, she's bruised, in no make up, she's lurching in pain, and the scene is always lit more ominously. Nothing about any of it is sexy.

...Maybe I should've posted this in the Atomic Blonde thread.

[Irish]

...Maybe I should've posted this in the Atomic Blonde thread.

LOL, maybe. It doesn't have much to do with the subject --- but in partial response, I argue that "Atomic Blonde" wasn't sold and won't be viewed that way. (Although I think both observations are interesting and I'd bet money those choices were made by Theron herself.)

[Peng]

Posted this elsewhere when the Cameron/Jenkins news first broke:

Let me just preface that this is anecdotal and also many of my country's men are gross. But: in her very briefer BvS appearance there is somehow still a shot of her during the final fight that people ogles over and still has its gif for use leeringly whenever an article about Gadot comes up. It's telling that the Gadot-almost-all-the-time Wonder Woman never inspire a single moment like that. Sexy costume or no, a director does make a difference.

[Henry Gale]

In a way this goes completely against your point to ask to see it, but since I'm genuinely unsure: Which gif do you speak of?

[Peng]

It's been long (this is most frequently in the middle period between BvS and WW) and I'm not gonna go specifically look out for it, but if I remember correctly it's during the BvS final fight where [

Show Spoiler

she's knocked down against something and her skirt went up.

]

[Dukefrukem]

Is it this?

[Grouchy]

Is it so gross to like beautiful women? I'll forever be confused by your seemingly unanimous stand against even mild eroticism.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Is it so gross to like beautiful women? I'll forever be confused by your seemingly unanimous stand against even mild eroticism.

I just don't like when that eroticism comes at the expense of character agency, or when I feel that the eroticism is the real point and there's no sense of balance. Neither of which I think happens at all in Wonder Woman. The One Million BC comparison from earlier feels especially off-base to me, because the issue with that film is Welch's utter lack of utility except as a source of ogling. I'd chastise that silly fur bikini because there's nothing else to consider with that character and actress.

It's funny people criticize that shot in BvS, because I don't think it has anything to do with eroticism. The shot is about her smiling when Doomsday knocks her back and us recognizing her enjoyment of a legitimate fight. The focus isn't on her upturned skirt at all.

[Skitch]

It's funny people criticize that shot in BvS, because I don't think it has anything to do with eroticism. The shot is about her smiling when Doomsday knocks her back and us recognizing her enjoyment of a legitimate fight. The focus isn't on her upturned skirt at all.

Agreed, I don't see it either. I don't think it was intended to be by the shot/director/dp either.

[Dukefrukem]

Never saw it until it was mentioned here. Didn't even remember the scene or the smile.

[Irish]

The One Million BC comparison from earlier feels especially off-base to me, because the issue with that film is Welch's utter lack of utility except as a source of ogling.

That ScarJo's characters have more agency than Raquel's is a function of changing social mores (eg: second wave feminism). But the intent in packaging, marketing, and audience is similar.

I think Cameron's tone was cavalier and he got a little too hand-wavy, but he's not wrong, either.

[megladon8]

Cameron is being a tool and continues to mansplain feminism to a female feminist director.

[Peng]

I agree that it is absolutely not intentional on any part of the filmmakers, but I used to get annoyed at the gif cropping up so often and was very striked by how there is no equivalence from WW. So I think, even in the subsconcious and without intention, the images as seen through two filmmakers of different genders can be telling in this regard.

[Ezee E]

Nah, this is just the same old boring generic superhero nonsense that only just squeaks by on Gadot's and Pine's central relationship, which is strong and affecting.

My thoughts exactly.

Second DC movie since the Superman one.

[Ezee E]

-Why is it so hard to make a successful/interesting villain in these comic book movies? Heck, even Logan had a pretty lame villain in an otherwise great world. The movie probably could've skipped the "CGI-ness" of the villain altogether and maybe succeeded even more if it just was Wonder Woman understanding what war and sacrifice is.

-Gadot's reaction to killing Huston may be one of the more powerful performance parts in the "shared universe" worlds. Heck, her feelings even extend past a scene, something you also don't see in these comic universes.

-The Amazon world is goofy as hell. And holy cow, the end confrontation is bad.

-Trench war scene is cool. I like that it went from trench warfare to the city, although I don't really understand the little "bump" that the guys gave Wonder Woman to the sniper house. Did she even need it? lol.

-There's so much confusion with WWII because there's so many of the WWII cliches here.

[Peng]

although I don't really understand the little "bump" that the guys gave Wonder Woman to the sniper house. Did she even need it? lol.

It's the same move that Steve saw earlier in the fight at the island. I like that it's both in keeping with their fight style ("Shield" as signifier) and a very minor character detail that Steve's the kind of guy that pays attention.

[Morris Schæffer]

-Why is it so hard to make a successful/interesting villain in these comic book movies? Heck, even Logan had a pretty lame villain in an otherwise great world. The movie probably could've skipped the "CGI-ness" of the villain altogether and maybe succeeded even more if it just was Wonder Woman understanding what war and sacrifice is.

Convention? In the end, as 'different' as Logan is, I kinda wish they had dispensed with the supervillain altogether and found instead a way to have him [

Show Spoiler

shuffle off the mortial coil at the hands of regular humans.

]

But these movies, as gutsy as some of them are, will always end up yielding to convention because $$$$$$.

But this is why superheroes can be boring and tricky to really get right all the way to the end game. For The Avengers they've been saying for what feels like years that they're finally going to find their match. Now, Thanos gets a shot at it, but he's dead in the water. Hulk alone could probably take him down.