Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins)

[Rico]

The ending would be a lot better if Ares never showed up and Diana had to come to terms with that she just killed a man. A really bad man, yes, but still just a man.

[Pop Trash]

The ending would be a lot better if Ares never showed up and Diana had to come to terms with that she just killed a man. A really bad man, yes, but still just a man.

This is exactly what I said. Plus she would have had to come to terms with the fact that war still exists because of the absurdity of man, even if the literal God of War isn't around. Powerful stuff. I think they could have written in a closure story on her Amazon Island where she explains to her Mom and Aunt that she has to fight for peace among the humans, thus for all practical purposes becoming the Goddess of Peace.

[Skitch]

Nah.

[transmogrifier]

Yeah. The Ares battle is the worst thing in the movie; a complete snooze.

[number8]

It's kinda neat that I've seen so many people of wildly varying tastes reach a consensus on this film's best scene and its worst one.

[Dead & Messed Up]

It's kinda neat that I've seen so many people of wildly varying tastes reach a consensus on this film's best scene and its worst one.

No Man's Land / Ares Fight?

[number8]

See?

[Dukefrukem]

No Man's Land / Ares Fight?

Agree with this.

Though a very close second would be No Man's Land / Going to the German Party and finding a car in the middle of the woods- (this scene accomplished absolutely nothing and feels like it was written for a single trailer shot with Diana and her sword sticking out her dress)

[[ETM]]

The whole actual plot of the movie once we leave the island is completely retarded. The fact that it's still so enjoyable speaks volumes about casting etc.

[Wryan]

THEN I WILL DESTROY YOU!

[Dead & Messed Up]

The Ares fight would've been at least 20% better if Thewlis stayed in his three-piece suit the whole time. Much more effective evil costume than his DnD duds.

[Wryan]

Something I've not seen many people talk about is the visual style of the prologue/gods stuff. I thought that was very beautiful and effective at conveying a powerful, classical interpretation. I kind of wish I hadn't seen that in 3D tho, as it sort of suffered a bit, poking out and looking a tad video-gamey.

[Dukefrukem]

It's about time.

[Skitch]

I disagree, but who cares. Welcome back Irish.

[number8]

- The movie isn't just stridently apolitical. It bends over backwards not to threaten the male side of the audience and it plays to the dumbest stereotypes imaginable. What's the first thing that Diana does when she hits London? She goes gaga over a baby and tries on "200" outfits---in other words, once in the modern world, the character plays to expected feminine stereotypes.

Oooh [insert giddy emoji], this is actually my favorite aspect to read and debate about fourth-wave feminism, the idea of whether third-wave feminism's encouragement of viewing stereotypically feminine traits as automatically bad/diminishing is inherently a misogynistic construct. The usually surface-level "strong female character"-focused convention panels that I've attended always get a little livelier when someone suddenly pipe-bombs the discussion with this. And I saw precisely that baby scene being cited in praises as an example of this rejection of equating femme with weakness (there's actually an in-story explanation for her excitement too, but I get what you're pointing out so I want to focus on this instead).

It's a push-pull that's been a part of the Wonder Woman character for as long as I've been reading her. Or any female superhero property, really, because when they're essentially tasked to perform traditionally male feats (physical strength) due to the nature of the genre, the question becomes whether a woman can only be seen as heroic, inspirational, and badass if they adhere to the template of "hero" that masculinity has established in culture (pop or otherwise). With Wonder Woman, there's an interesting pattern where the post-George Perez stories (where she's finally taken seriously by DC as a huge property) written by male authors like Geoff Johns and Brian Azzarello and Greg Rucka (throw in the all-male producers of the Justice League cartoon too), they've always made sure to establish her as first and foremost a formidable warrior, stoic and sometimes cold, as a way to emphasize that she should be considered as badass as the guys, to distance it from the fucked up way that she was portrayed to be the JLA's secretary or a thirsty marriage-chaser in the pre-women's lib era of WW comics. It's noticeably different when female writers wrote and talked about her. Gail Simone likes to heavily emphasize the idea of Diana as a sensitive and matronly figure, and both her run and Jill Thompson's recent graphic novel pushed for the idea of the significance of female-to-female friendships.

The most striking example of these two viewpoints in recent years has definitely been Captain Marvel, and I am so curious to see which way the movie will lean. When they gave her a huge push a few years back and rehauled her Ms Marvel look into her Captain Marvel look, the visual transformation was rightly praised, but something that took a while for people to notice I think was that her personality was retooled, too. I don't know if it was editorially mandated or if it's a case of subsequent writers pigeonholing what butch-looking women are supposed to act like, but Carol Danvers' pendulum really got swung into the "military hardass" side of her characterization.

Long story short, I suppose, is the lingering question of where the fault lies if shrieking at cute babies and fashion shopping are considered frivolous behavior for a Wonder Woman, whereas Thor having drinking contests or Spider-man crushing on a girl are considered relatable traits.

- I didn't know whether to roll my eyes or laugh when people took some kind of "girl power" message from this shit, or talked about how Diana represents "love, compassion, and peace" or whatever. Her only goal for two-thirds of the movie is to kill someone and she impales a dude with a fucking sword. I saw some reactions on social media and I started to wonder if I was the only person who remembered the ending of the movie.

I think the word "peace" is a fraught concept when you're talking about the superhero genre, because I don't think the genre is at its core compatible with the idea of pacifism. So peace in the superhero world tend to be something only achieved by an overpowering of violence*. It didn't stand out to me specifically in that way, but it's point taken and I think a big part of what a lot of people find ludicrous about the Ares resolution.

* I didn't want to bring up Gal Gadot's past and social media comments again, but boy, that is fitting.

- The only reason they would want to do sequels as period pieces is because it allows the possibility to place Diana in a time when gross, overt sexism was still a thing. This serves two purposes: It sets up awkward social situations as dumb humor the audience can grin at and it allows both the writers and the audience from considering systemic sexism that exists right now, in the real world. It can play broad, without any nuance.

I would normally agree with this usual Hollywood handling of sexism, but this film doesn't really support that reading because it surprisingly featured almost no overt sexism at all, which is why there are complaints (cosigned by me) that the movie mostly glosses over suffragettes and Wonder Woman's iconic importance.

It's funny that the Wonder Woman animated movie that we were discussing previously takes place in modern day and it had much more overt misogyny in it with Nathan Fillion's Steve Trevor acting like an extreme chauvinist until Diana supposedly sets him straight. Here the sexism mostly just comes out in microaggressions like assumptions of competency and modesty, which is exactly what's still rampant today.

P.S. I find it really unnecessarily reductive when people try to dismiss certain watershed accomplishments with, it wouldn't be special if it was gender-flipped, when that's kind of the point of contention for women to begin with.

[megladon8]

This was really great.

[Devlin]

I liked this quite a bit, but more afterwards than while I was watching it. It seemed pretty routine, but the more I thought about it there were certain elements that really stuck with me and caused my appreciation to grow. Certainly not perfect, but very enjoyable and much better than what DC has been giving us the last few years.

[Dukefrukem]

I just learned that Kate Beckinsale turned down this role.

[Grouchy]

That makes me very sad.

Enviado desde mi GT-I9190 mediante Tapatalk

[Skitch]

I just learned that Kate Beckinsale turned down this role.

That can't possibly be true.

[Dukefrukem]

That can't possibly be true.

Sorry guys. It was the Joss Whedon script.


https://www.yahoo.com/movies/kate-be...145359568.html

[Skitch]

My only reason for saying that was she can't possibly be that picky at this stage. lol

[megladon8]

Glad James Cameron was able to mansplain to Jenkins and team about what really makes a strong female character.

[Skitch]

Yeah, when is the next "blue cat lady needs a white man to save her" movie coming out?

[number8]

To be fair, James Cameron is an expert in taking a step backwards.