Alien: Covenant (Ridley Scott)

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[transmogrifier]

Well...

Hard to genuinely rate, given that it is so significantly better than Prometheus as an actual film, while at the same time it basically wipes away everything that was left unanswered by that film in favor of becoming a much more generic slasher film with a non-xenomorph villain orchestrating events and thus creating a layer of depth the film desperately needs. Seriously, if you are looking for more information about the Engineers, this is not a film made for you.

Character work outside of Fassbender is perfunctory at best (though this is another of James Franco's weird little japes in a career full of them) and most of the deaths are either flatly presented or flat out exploitative; the high point by far is the first run in with the alien life form, where things go to shit quickly and people panic and everything jolts and moves and has a sense of urgency. But that only lasts a little while before it goes back to the template of individuals being picked off one-by-one and it doesn't really do that very well.

Still... it does a solid job of clean up after the bizarre ineptness of Prometheus' plotting and even starts to explain the peculiarity of the xeonmorph's life cycle, though your reaction to this will depend on your tolerance for the convenience of it all. So...put me down as undecided for now.

[Henry Gale]

I am a little more decided, and though I similarly still have a lot to mull over with it, I think I really liked all of the things about it swirling in my head. It's such an odd movie in the sense that it is such a direct sequel to Prometheus in so many ways, and yet a completely irresponsible one at the same time. We are totally at the will of [

Show Spoiler

David, his motiviations, and what he wants out of the world he has in front of him

] and even as someone who is a big fan of Prometheus despite all its (the thing just sings as it goes that it's not until after it finishes do I consider its faults) and invested in Shaw, David and their search for the Engineers and their history and goals of creation, I was absolutely fine and stunned by how it chose to carry on with those threads.

It's such a strange and mischievously dark film for a big movie like this, and that dark undercurrent to it will likely turn many off of it outright, but I honestly think if you are in the mood for just the sort of giddily evil cocoction Scott has cooked up, it's something worth relishing.

For the record I'd now say watch the "Prometheus Prologue" they released after you see the movie.

[Peng]

I didn't exactly dislike it, but a bit shocked by overall positive receptions from many I follow, actually. And I say this as a Prometheus/Ridley Scott apologist

In short, love the lore, love the philosophizing, ADORE the double Fassbenders, but Scott's utter disregard for the new crew's intelligence/competency or empathy in their survival is a total drag. Good things they're likeable actors (weird cast for a blockbuster but pretty effective) in generally likeable character roles.

I know Prometheus gets a lot of flak, but for methat film seduces you in first, teasing out mysteries and visual elegance regularly, and then steadily ramps up people's idiocy or plot's improbabilities more and more later on, and by then I am too hooked into its frenzied storytelling so that they don't bother me as much.

In contrast to Covenenant, in which Scott needlessly saddles the new crew with a much bigger, more important mission right off the bat, so every 'touchy-feely-gonna-step-wildly-everywhere' action here feels so much more magnified than that film. And instead of ramping up to ease us into horror tropes, Scott leads off the first one or two crucial horrific incidents as being a direct result of the crew's biggest idiotic/incompetent actions. (The non-spoiler one, which has me screaming internally a bit just within the first 30 minutes, is "YOU'RE ALL SCIENTISTS WHY DOESN'T ANYONE WEAR ANY PROECTIVE SUIT HERE???"). I am very, very less prone to irritation with character behaviors, especially when it comes to horror films, than most people, and I still couldn't believe my eyes a bit with this one.

To reiterate though, the mythology and Michael Fassbender are all golden stuff, and Ridley Scott still has a great eye and directs the hell out of this (even if this is a more down-and-dirty horror film without Prometheus' visual elegance). Too bad there needs to be humans that the director couldn't be less interested in creating/writing about around though.

[TGM]

Sure, there were some issues with the characters only getting into trouble because they're idiots (no protective gear while roaming about on the planet also struck me as a particularly odd choice), similar to Prometheus. Yet I guess I didn't find it to be nearly as bothersome here. Probably because the rest of the surrounding movie is so much significantly better than that one. Not to mention there's so much more Fassbender, which is always a good thing (seriously, more movies could do with a little Fassbender on Fassbender action ).

For real though, the Fassbender scenes were just magical, and worth the price of admission alone. I could watch those two philosophizing with one another for hours.

I also really dug that they decided to throw in a handful of nods to Alien 3 of all things. Wouldn't expect that honestly, but given the much more grim nature of this one, it seems fitting.

[Dukefrukem]

LOVED this. Loved everything about it. Fixes everything Damon Lindelof. More tomorrow.

[Ezee E]

This is what we wanted from Prometheus, all said and done. Good enough, even with some dumb things throughout.

Highlight of the movie, and it's a standout for the Alien series, is the sense of terror when things start HAPPENING. Filled with energy, terror, unpredictable, and the motivations feel right. There's no scientists playing friendly with attack-ready cobras.

With that said, there's absolutely no protocols with this group, and that leads to some forced motivations that don't seem realistic at all. People walking off on their own, entering risky atmospheres, and no PPE whatsoever. Thankfully, there's a very interesting dynamic between the "Synthetics" that offsets the dull crew. McBride is actually the best character of the bunch... The rest LOOK interesting, and I wanted to know more, but you never really get a chance.

The end genuinely feels claustrophobic and scary again, especially as the chase goes on. The chase has a predictable and repeated ending, which is unfortunate. I feel like the twist would've been suited there instead of how it finally played out.

GOOD enough. I'll definitely watch various pieces again.

[Skitch]

According to the voting options, this movie is an epic win for me.

[Dukefrukem]

Spoilers below that I'm not spoil tagging.

There's something about Scott's eye for sci-fi that fits so well with this universe. I don't know if he has consultants up the ass, designing this world for him and he just needs to interpret the script, but both Prometheus and Alien Covenant are beautiful beautiful films.

It's definitely when things start happening, is where the tension and terror are it's best. I would have liked more dumbfounding exclamations, such as when the crew sees the Engineer's ship for the first time. "What the fuck is that?"- This line should have been said 30 times. Upon seeing the white aliens, upon seeing the Engineer's city, upon seeing David's taxodermy home, upon seeing the Xenomorph for the first time... but most of the crew was very ho-hum about what they were seeing.

Again, I'm giving the "forced motivations" a pass, just like I did in Prometheus. I don't think there was anything particularity dumb about the decision making, not even close to the same level as petting a Cobra Water Snake. Slipping on blood in the floor is just a flat out mistake by the character. Shooting an O2 tank in a panic because you just saw a monster come out of your friend's spine is just pure terror. Going to clean yourself up when you have been promised by a synthetic you trust that it is perfectly safe, is fine. Looking into a facehugger egg because, again, you're promised it was "perfectly safe", fine.

I was really hoping Katherine Waterston was going to be the next Ripley. The end of this movie seems to suggest otherwise. I thought the same for Shaw.

One of the more striking images for me, was the flashback to David landing on the alien planet. That was quite a disturbing move from the synthetic and it paints a wonderful character arch for David between the two movies. I understand the problem with that though from a stand alone perspective. But I'm really looking forward to watching these movies back to back.

Finally, I would have loved a resolution to the film that didn't result in one we have already seen twice before. And there's still one giant question that needs to be answered with these movies. And that's how these genetically engineered eggs got on the Engineer's ship and crash landed on LV-426?

[Dukefrukem]

Ok. Some negatives: The sense of time. What happened here?

First there's a hurricane that we are told to believe could last days, weeks or months. And in the very next scene shot outside between David and Walter, it's beautiful out? This destroys the tension created up in orbit where the crew is trying to decide how low to bring the ship over the said hurricane.

Also, the time it takes for the [

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facehugger to implant and grow inside Oram- was no one looking for the captain and David for several hours?

]

[Ezee E]

Also, the time it takes for the [

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facehugger to implant and grow inside Oram- was no one looking for the captain and David for several hours?

]

This.

[

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It was practically minutes for the Captain. And the other guy after, took several hours.

]

You nailed many of the weaknesses. As you mentioned, everything in the ship, as far as the slipping and shooting was fine with me though. The slipping looked very painful actually, and was unexpected to me.

[Dukefrukem]

I re-watched Prometheus tonight. And there's some notes I'd like to mention in here that may improve not just Prometheus for some, but Alien Covenant as well.

First, it was always assumed that the xenomorphs differed physically depending on the host. This has been proved in four movies now. Alien 3, Resurrection, Prometheus and Covenant. In Covenant, it was now confirmed by David that the method the pathogens are ingested also change the mutation. This was shown three times in Covenant. One through inhaling the spores. One through the spores entering the blood stream through the ear orphus. And one through the traditional face hugger. We saw some weird "white" aliens in Covenant. These are probably the aliens that developed from the indigenous wildlife on the planet and likely not the result of the offspring from the Engineers, since the weaponize black goo incinerated them all. It's also interesting to note, depending on the way pathogens are ingested, also impacts the method of "birth". Love that actually.

We also see five different mutations in Prometheus. The first is when the indigenous worms are exposed to the black goo, resulting in the Cobra Snake. One with Fifield falling head first into a pile of black goo turning him into a raging Fifield monster. One where an Engineer gets the squid facehugger. One where David takes a single drop of the black goo and drops it a drink when he gives it to Holloway. And after the single drop infects Holloway, and he has sexy time with Shaw, Shaw actually becomes pregnant with the squid facehugger. This could also explain why Holloway's mutation is so slow because the single drop of goo was merely and experiment that David was toying with. This is a great lead in to Covenant because we can see how far he has come in 10 years of experimenting.

This leads into the next bits with David. There's a scene in Prometheus where David is talking to Weyland, presumably either through his dream because he's using the same VR head device as he was when the movie started and he was watching Shaw dream, or it's just a way of communicating to Weyland who's in light hibernation. Or he could be merely awake in another part of the ship. Regardless, it's pretty obvious he's talking to Weyland. The conversation goes something like this: "No, sir, I will take care of it. Yes, sir, understood. I'm sorry. Fortunately, slightly premature." This is where Vickers approaches David abruptly asking what "he" said. David replies "Try harder". This the beginning of David's experimenting and putting the answers to Weylenad's questions before the safety and morality of the crew. You can basically chop this up to David being Weyland's personal "Sonny" from iRobot. He's a synthetic programmed for one purpose. The Vicker's scene is equally important because the reveal hasn't been made yet that Weyland is Vicker's father. This actually makes a lot more sense why that "reveal" scene was so prominent. Vickers and Weyland have two completely different set of priorities and it's clear Vicker's doesn't agree with his father- nor loves him at this point. When Weyland dies, her immediate response is "time to go".

Back to "try harder". What does this mean? Well it's about the mission. The point of the mission was to see if there was a way to prolong death. If all the engineers were dead (as initially thought) the mission would be a failure. So Weyland responded: "try harder" . Right after this scene, David asks Holloway "how far he would be willing to go to get answers" to which Holloway replies "anything"- that's where David infects him with the goo. He's doing everything he can to get answers for Weyland.

Couple of other smaller things- Prometheus takes place in 2089.
Alien Covenant - 2104
Alien - 2122
Aliens - 2183
Alien 3 - 2184
Alien Resurrection: 2379

It was cool to hear the Covenant crew talk to the ship as "mother", like Alien and Resurrection)- This wasn't just a great throwback, but there is no AI/mother in Prometheus. Why? My guess is the technology wasn't developed yet. However, David calls Vicker's "mum" throughout the film. The thought here is she was acting as the overseer of the mission, much like the AI does in the other movies.

Unanswered questions from Prometheus : Why did they want to kill the human race? Though it's even stated in Prometheus that it's irrelevant. I really like the Jesus theory. Which leaves one last question.

Why did the Engineers leave a map to their military weapon's manufacturing planet? We'll never know.

[transmogrifier]

We also see five different mutations in Prometheus. The first is when the indigenous worms are exposed to the black goo, resulting in the Cobra Snake. One with Fifield falling head first into a pile of black goo turning him into a raging Fifield monster. One where an Engineer gets the squid facehugger. One where David takes a single drop of the black goo and drops it a drink when he gives it to Holloway. And after the single drop infects Holloway, and he has sexy time with Shaw, Shaw actually becomes pregnant with the squid facehugger. This could also explain why Holloway's mutation is so slow because the single drop of goo was merely and experiment that David was toying with. This is a great lead in to Covenant because we can see how far he has come in 10 years of experimenting.

Ugh, you just reminded me why I dislike Prometheus so much. Let's take a simple concept and render it totally nonsensical because we can.

[Ezee E]

I feel like Ridley Scott just used the Alien franchise to make the sci-fi movie he always wanted to make, but probably wouldn't have gotten the funding for.

[Scar]

I'm not sold on this one yet. Some excellent scenes, but didn't care for the final confrontation with the Alien. With that said, I am a fan of the actual ending.

People seriously need to start following Quarantine procedures.

[Skitch]

Seeing this in a couple hours.

[Pop Trash]

Interesting exploration of intergalactic robot fascism. Mostly the best one in this series since ALIENS...mostly.

[megladon8]

So, like, um, where do Queens come from?

[Dukefrukem]

Who cares?

[megladon8]

Huh?9

[Dukefrukem]

Huh?9

Why does the answer to that question matter?

[TGM]

So, like, um, where do Queens come from?

Heh, was actually wondering that as well.

[megladon8]

Why does the answer to that question matter?

Why does it matter any less than any of the other continuity questions people have posed in this thread?

It has been established in several films since Aliens that the queens lay the eggs, the eggs hatch facehuggers, facehuggers bread xenomorphs.

Now the queen has no place in the life cycle.

Not to mention how did that ship full of eggs make its way to LV426 now that we know how eggs really come to be.

[TGM]

I think I enjoy this film despite such glaring continuity issues. Honestly, both this and Prometheus set out to answer all sorts of questions that I was never asking after watching the Alien movies (just assumed that they were, you know, aliens. How they came to be doesn't really matter, does it? They're just monsters from another world). So in a sense, even though these are within canon with the other films, a part of me just enjoys them as their own thing, sorta similar to what Ezee alluded to with this just being Scott's way of being able to get another original sci-fi idea of his made. So yeah, it honestly raises more questions than it really answers, but even so, I can still dig it on its own merits. And this movie really has me wanting to revisit Prometheus and actually give it a second chance, and see if I can't appreciate it more now.

[transmogrifier]

Why does the answer to that question matter?

It matters because Ridley Scott has decided to take something that didn't need explaining and explain it. Fine, in that case, at least do it properly. But these first two movies have been rife with idiotic plot conveniences and ridiculous character decisions and inconsistent timelines and random biological phenomena and it is only serving to frustrate rather than illuminate. It has taken something that we didn't know much about and two movies later we still don't know much because of the parade of unanswered questions that litter these things. So, no, that one question on its own wouldn't be enough to break an entire film, but it is one of a trillion little questions, deaths by a thousand cuts.

AND, even worse, Prometheus was cut a little slack because it was assumed many of the unanswered questions in that would be addressed in Covenant. But as we have seen, most of the Engineer stuff has been waved away, so it follows that many of the unanswered questions in this latest one may never get answered. And that's frustrating. And should absolutely be a source of criticism.

It doesn't feel as if there is any underlying logic in this prequel duo; they're so wrapped up in deepening a mythology that didn't need deepening that they are forgetting a basic rule: make sure it is logical in the context of the rules you have set for your universe. Here, it fails dramatically.