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Thread: Game of Thrones (Season 7)

  1. #201
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    So captured wight (assuming) with the remaining seven to go to King's Landing for one final battle.

    Clegane Bowl for final fan service to end the season?

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  2. #202
    The prophesy was that Cersei would have three children, which she's already had and lost. Of course, if she's telling the truth but is killed before giving birth, perhaps that still works.

  3. #203
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    I've been pretty critical of Emilia Clarke in the past*, but I have to say, she's done a nice job this season of showing Dany slowly and subtly falling for Jon. The council scene especially, I thought she played Dany's reaction to Jon heading North of the Wall really well. Of course, that's just going to make things more interesting when she finds out that Jon is not only her nephew (although given that she grew up expecting to marry her brother this might not bother her as much as it would Jon) but that his claim to the throne is at least as strong as hers, if not stronger.

    *Though I do think she's somewhat hampered by the fact that Dany has been such a dull, one-note character for so long. Her best scenes almost always come when she's given notes to play other than "stoic and/or badass Dragon Queen".
    Last edited by Ashley; 08-15-2017 at 01:55 AM.

  4. #204
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    Quote Quoting DavidSeven (view post)
    The prophesy was that Cersei would have three children, which she's already had and lost. Of course, if she's telling the truth but is killed before giving birth, perhaps that still works.
    It also said that she'd die strangled by her "little brother".

  5. #205
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    what does Cersei plan to do after 3-4 months?
    Hahah I remember a really shitty TV show (I think it might have been Glee) where a woman pulled off that scam by putting on an artificial belly in all her scenes.

  6. #206
    I am not your foot. Spinal's Avatar
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    Emilia Clarke certainly does get the award for Most Improved. Her performances of late are dramatically better than the first season.
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  7. #207
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Spinal (view post)
    Emilia Clarke certainly does get the award for Most Improved. Her performances of late are dramatically better than the first season.
    Between her and Cersei, they are probably the most interesting characters to watch on a dramatic standpoint. Arya and Snow are the most fun.

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  8. #208
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    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    It also said that she'd die strangled by her "little brother".
    Which is why I'm pissed I didn't have Arya killing her in my predictions.

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  9. #209
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    Most prophecies we've heard on the show have been wrong. That's one thing I like about this lore. There are these people who put their absolute faith in something and get totally boned for it.

  10. #210
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    A few observations:

    Team Snow needs to bring back a wight - who's to say it might not be one of them who is returned as a wight? wouldn't Jorah be a real kick in the crotch?

    On Dany finding out she's related to Jon Snow. I seem to recall reading or hearing somewhere (might even have been in book one) that the Targaeryans have a history of intermarriage. In fact, I think in the original book, Dany mentions growing up assuming she would eventually marry her brother Viserys. So, she would probably not be off put by the news. Not so sure about Jon tho.
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  11. #211
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    She's not gonna be put off by the fact that there's another Targaryen; she'll probably be happy that there's another family member after thinking that she's the last one. And yes, Targaryens are fine with incest.

    The question is more about how she'll take the news that she won't be the rightful heir anymore. Westeros is very patriarchal and a grandson like Jon is prioritized more in the line of succession than a daughter like Dany. Now if Jon's cool with marrying her the whole thing is moot since she'll be queen anyway, but I think the drama will be over whether she's fine with becoming queen through marriage. As the Mother of Dragons, she's been setting herself up as a trailblazer and queen of her own making. Is she gonna be happy, after all that, for some other guy to swoop in as the rightful king and her getting to the throne by becoming a wife?

  12. #212
    I am not your foot. Spinal's Avatar
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    I don't think you can have your TV show make so much of the ick factor of the Lannister incest and then have your two most iconic characters end up in an incestuous romantic relationship. I don't think it's happening, even understanding the history. I think they're more likely to war against each other.
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  13. #213
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    Quote Quoting number8 (view post)
    Most prophecies we've heard on the show have been wrong. That's one thing I like about this lore. There are these people who put their absolute faith in something and get totally boned for it.
    Well then the show is doing a lot of misdirection right now with the Hound's new friends. They seem dead set on some kind of fate/prophecy mission.

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  14. #214
    I am not your foot. Spinal's Avatar
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    Which prophecies have been flat-out wrong, as opposed to misinterpreted?
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  15. #215
    I am not your foot. Spinal's Avatar
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    I agree with the main point though, that the story is good at showing people who commit atrocities based on misplaced faith in something that is essentially unknowable.
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  16. #216
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    Quote Quoting Spinal (view post)
    Which prophecies have been flat-out wrong, as opposed to misinterpreted?
    "Stallion Who Mounts the World" was one of the first ones. Baby ends up stillborn.

    I suppose you can always say that the prophecy meant something or someone else later down the road, which is how real-life faith-based prophecies work, too, but narratively speaking, the way the prophecies are presented to the audience tend to be wrong. Obvious one: Stannis. I mean, sure, Melissandre can keep on saying "No, Azor Ahai's reincarnation is this guy! No, that guy!" until she gets it right, but then that's no longer much of a prophecy. So I think fans can argue if it's gonna be Tyrion or Jamie who will be the "little brother" that kills Cersei, but this series may not be above just revealing out of nowhere that Hot Pie is Tywin's bastard all along and have him kill her.

  17. #217
    Would agree that there's been some misdirection regarding fate and prophecies in general, but Cersei's was very specific and about 95%% fulfilled thus far. On the question of how many children she'll have, that seems pretty absolute with little room for wiggle.

    I think the "little brother" aspect has way more room for interpretation. The witch did not even use the words "little brother" but a Valyrian word which supposedly translates to essentially the same thing. Nevertheless, it's never explicitly said that it would be "Cersei's little brother." I think a more general "the little brother" can ultimately be interpreted many different ways. Not to mention that you have a character (Arya) who's looking to kill her and can take the face of anyone she pleases, including, presumably, Cersei's actual little brothers.

  18. #218
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    Quote Quoting number8 (view post)
    She's not gonna be put off by the fact that there's another Targaryen; she'll probably be happy that there's another family member after thinking that she's the last one. And yes, Targaryens are fine with incest.

    The question is more about how she'll take the news that she won't be the rightful heir anymore. Westeros is very patriarchal and a grandson like Jon is prioritized more in the line of succession than a daughter like Dany. Now if Jon's cool with marrying her the whole thing is moot since she'll be queen anyway, but I think the drama will be over whether she's fine with becoming queen through marriage. As the Mother of Dragons, she's been setting herself up as a trailblazer and queen of her own making. Is she gonna be happy, after all that, for some other guy to swoop in as the rightful king and her getting to the throne by becoming a wife?
    Well, Westeros is very patriarchal, but I don't think that's the only reason why Jon would be ahead of her in the line of succession. Even if they were both girls, the child of the Crown Prince would traditionally come before his younger sister, no (eg. Prince William vs. Prince Andrew)? Of course, as Martin himself has said, questions of "rightful" heirs tend to get murky when you're dealing with armies and this sort of Might Makes Right society. If you look at the Wars of the Roses, which he based the series on in large part, there were a lot of people who argued that they were the "rightful king" and in the end it came down to the dude who had the strength to plant his ass on the throne and stay there.

    I do agree with you though that the more important and interesting question is how the news impacts the characters, especially Jon and Dany since it basically blows up the whole foundations of their characters. Jon's whole identity is based on being the bastard son of Ned Stark, while Dany's is based on being the last Targaryan and rightful Queen of Westeros. How do they respond to the news that those foundations are built on a lie?

    Regarding prophesies: I thought they left the valonqar part out on the show? Am I just remembering it wrong? That being said, I'm kind of sad that the show has ruled out my personal favourite crack theory: that it's undead Tommen (I swear, if you look at the wording it's the only answer that makes sense!)
    Last edited by Ashley; 08-15-2017 at 06:17 PM.

  19. #219
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    Quote Quoting Ashley (view post)
    Well, Westeros is very patriarchal, but I don't think that's the only reason why Jon would be ahead of her in the line of succession. Even if they were both girls, the child of the Crown Prince would traditionally come before his younger sister, no (eg. Prince William vs. Prince Andrew)? Of course, as Martin himself has said, questions of "rightful" heirs tend to get murky when you're dealing with armies and this sort of Might Makes Right society. If you look at the Wars of the Roses, which he based the series on in large part, there were a lot of people who argued that they were the "rightful king" and in the end it came down to the dude who had the strength to plant his ass on the throne and stay there.

    I do agree with you though that the more important and interesting question is how the news impacts the characters, especially Jon and Dany since it basically blows up the whole foundations of their characters. Jon's whole identity is based on being the bastard son of Ned Stark, while Dany's is based on being the last Targaryan and rightful Queen of Westeros. How do they respond to the news that those foundations are built on a lie?
    Yeah, exactly (that's what happened with all the Baratheon kids staking their claim), but why I think it particularly matters to Dany is that her entire claim of being the rightful heir is based on correcting the throne's proper line of succession that was interrupted by Robert's Rebellion. So if she's gonna be a stickler for that bloodline malarkey, she has to acknowledge that her own standards would make Jon the rightful heir, not her. How she'll navigate that potential hypocrisy is what's going to be interesting.

    Regarding prophesies: I thought they left the valonqar part out on the show? Am I just remembering it wrong?
    Oh man, you're right. Cersei's death has not been prophesied on the show at all.

  20. #220
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    Quote Quoting Spinal (view post)
    I don't think you can have your TV show make so much of the ick factor of the Lannister incest and then have your two most iconic characters end up in an incestuous romantic relationship. I don't think it's happening, even understanding the history. I think they're more likely to war against each other.
    The Targaryens are not only fine with incest, they actually encourage it to keep their bloodstream pure like real life clans used to do. So Daenerys finding out about Jon being his nephew would most likely make her very happy. She could even take it as a sign.

    I don't think the show is as icky as you say about Cersei-Jaime. It's simply that the society they live in now considers it taboo as opposed to the realm under Targaryen rule. But Jaime is genuinely in love with his sister. And Cersei is as in love as a sociopath can be. None of their children show signs of retardation - Joffrey is just a cunt.

  21. #221
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    Quote Quoting DavidSeven (view post)
    Would agree that there's been some misdirection regarding fate and prophecies in general, but Cersei's was very specific and about 95%% fulfilled thus far. On the question of how many children she'll have, that seems pretty absolute with little room for wiggle.
    This is kind of what I mean, though. We don't know if that's true at all, for now. If Cersei's pregnancy is actually legit, that means the witch was full of shit. And my point was, as presented, this is a show that is comfortable going either direction.

  22. #222
    I am not your foot. Spinal's Avatar
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    The valonqar part has been left out of the show. I think we're all just assuming that the person who kills Cersei is so important that it wouldn't be something Benioff and Weiss would change.
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  23. #223
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    Quote Quoting DavidSeven (view post)
    Not to mention that you have a character (Arya) who's looking to kill her and can take the face of anyone she pleases, including, presumably, Cersei's actual little brothers.
    If Arya can successfully impersonate either Jaime or Tyrion, that would be true mastery of her skills.
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  24. #224
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    Quote Quoting Spinal (view post)
    If Arya can successfully impersonate either Jaime or Tyrion, that would be true mastery of her skills.
    She impersonated Walder Frey who has a completely different physical build than her.

  25. #225
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    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    She impersonated Walder Frey who has a completely different physical build than her.
    Oh, I'm not putting it past her. I'm just saying that would be amazing. I hope it happens.
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