Quoting Sycophant (view post)
This post is so weird. Work = Work except when it's not.
Of course it's not! An hour is not equal across every industry. I'm sorry but it's just not true.
Aren't we all given this option in high school? Step 1. Figure out what you want to do with your life. (that includes industry) Step 2. Do it.
No one is saying that every industry is equal.
We are saying that valuing service industry / retail jobs as being so low that they don't deserve to afford basic needs is an elitist and, frankly, completely assholish attitude
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
Probably shouldn't start a family if you can't support yourself.
The whole idea of minimum wage was to get people off the streets during the great depression. It wasn't so you can live equally as someone in me middle class and support a family of four.
You seem like you have absolutely no regard for anyone who doesn't have the same life experience as you. No empathy.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
Syco just said it. It's in my quote. And your'e saying it right here.
Someone in retail should be able to afford an iPhone right?
So you want to fix this by raising the minimum wage right?
Which means my taxes go up right?
Which means I pay more for you to get an iPhone right?
Stop me when it's not about making ever industry equal.
I have to officially step away here. This is getting me very angry and I am going to end up saying something I regret later.
Enjoy the chat, folks.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
WHAT THE FUCK.
I SAID 2 POSTS AGO I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT IPHONES, I'M TALKING ABOUT FOOD AND SHELTER.
It's like talking to a fucking wall with you.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
I'm just using iPhone as an example. Syco thinks it's just a little entertainment thingy that everyone should have the right to afford.
For uncontrollable circumstances I am very empathetic.
I don't follow "work is work except when it's not." What work did I disqualify from saying was work? Actually, it doesn't matter, because I think your point comes through with the rest of it.
It is true that an hour of work in one industry/position is not equal to an hour of work in any other industry/position, in terms of economic value. However, work is work in that when I work an hour, I've spent an hour of my life, regardless of what industry I'm in. That hour may not be valued by Adam Smith's magical hands equally, but when I work, I work. In that sense, work is work.
And I'm not saying let's all be millionaires. I'm not saying the CEO of Microsoft needs to make the same amount of money as the Best Buy employee. I'm saying economic inequality is a huge problem. I'm saying poverty is a disease our society suffers from. And I think we can fix it.
I'm not saying they should be equal. I'm saying the disparities we tolerate are intolerable.
A. We are asked this question in high school, I guess? Maybe? I bet in some high schools you aren't. I'm not sure how clearly this question was pitched to me. Are we getting into how messed up our education system is? Because the inequality of quality and resources in our schools is actually a part of the overall problem here.
B. There are finite "good" positions out there. We can't all "do it." "Do it" is a great idea, but this economy and society doesn't actually have room for us all to live our dreams. I get that people work hard and make it to the top, or hit the level they want and that's great. That took hard work and I don't want to devalue that! But so much more goes into it than sheer individual will. People fail to achieve their targets for reasons that are not always down to their own failings. People who aren't as successful aren't weaker morally or whatever.
C. And fuck it, even if they are weaker, so what? I don't need this social darwinist nonsense.
D. And again, our society doesn't just have space for people who don't "win," it demands it. Someone has to do the small, dirty jobs that keep our society running. We depend on them.
E. How many people staffing your neighborhood fast food joint are actually trying to make a living doing this? We're told it should be a "stepping stone" to better-paying work--it's for college kids to make a few bucks. But sometimes it's the only job that you can get and nothing better ever turns up. How many people are working a second job (like a lot of public teachers these days!) to keep the lights on? Trying desperately to make ends meet with this job after a decent career in an industry fell victim to downsizing or some other fate out of their hands? Are trying to supplement the feeble retirement they barely scrapped together after a lifetime of full-time work? How many of the young-looking workers come from poor backgrounds and don't have any family support to rely on and are trying to build a life for themselves but have no training? Why is their labor so undervalued? Again, not why aren't they paid the same as Elon Musk? But why is their labor not worth a living?
Yes, good. My taxes too. Let's do it.
Not many things here I can argue with. Your point A is likely the biggest problem. Even before high school we took classes preparing for not just college, but vocational sector work. It was pitched as whatever see yourself doing for a long time. You took classes on how to achieve that. Sure it was a lot of pressure. But it was also fun.
Touche.
Amen. Every minute that I'm not doing something I want to be doing, I better be getting paid. I have a lot of time to think while I'm on the road for my job, and sometimes I feel like its all such a waste of my life, but man's got to eat. Come on Star Trek future...
Meg never spoke about iPhones, that's something exterior to his point.
As to the whole "fancy smartphone" thing, let's unpack that. I think most of us would agree that a phone is fairly essential to operating in society. A phone is how we contact our loved ones, how we create communication links for matters like health insurance, resumes, job contact in case of emergencies. It is possible to survive without a phone line, but that takes a lot of work. A lot of work.
Also, let's recognize that it's similarly difficult to operate in society without some sort of link to the internet, most often through a computer. The internet is where you can get cheaper goods (through Amazon and such). The internet is where much of job hiring takes place. It's where you can access your health insurance. Pay your bills. Check your bank account. You can do all of this without internet access, but it's a trade-off. You will lose a substantial amount of time handling such business over the phone or in person, and hours in the day are so crucial when you're trying to move out of an impoverished or minimum-wage circumstance.
So let's consider the fact that buying a "fancy smartphone" might actually not be the frivolous purchase it is, because it takes care of two concurrent needs. The need for a phone (for completely practical reasons of contact) and the need for internet access (again, think of it in terms of pragmatism). This without considering the wide variety of free applications that can double for laptop/PC software in a pinch. In some cases, a smartphone may actually be saving somebody money over paying for the limited value of a landline phone while also paying for a computer, internet access, and multiple applications (thankfully, most computers come with free native word and spreadsheet software).
Again, these are "needs" insofar as they are insanely useful for navigating a wide variety of tasks in an increasingly connected world. For many people, a smartphone may be the only real access they have to phone and internet (outside of something like their meted-out allotment of public library internet access).
Honestly, the whole thing reminds me of the disconnect inherent when politicians mutter about how poor people can afford coffee machines. Like... are you serious? You can find a coffee machine for $20 at Target, and then you get a jug of fucking Folgers, and then you have functional coffee for a month while you're splitting shifts.
It's one thing if a person is lazing in their parents' basement and avoiding Monster.com by Instagramming themselves with those cat filters or whatever the fuck, but is that truly what's happening? Or is it just that this is what seems like is happening? What are the biases going on in this whole discussion?
More so, you could get a functional one for a couple bucks at any Goodwill/thift store. I'm a whore for thrift and exchange stores. I hate paying full price for anything when deals can be had everywhere if you do the leg work.
Internet makes things easier yes. Water is wet. But it's not essential for living is it?
You want access to monster.com? Go to the library. That's still free right? Gmail still free? Yup. You bring up Amazon, why exactly, when Walmart is almost literally the RL Amazon. Health Insurance? I personally I don't use my health benefits online. Paying bills? USPS still exist?
Easier living, absolutely. Essential? No way. When there's a will, there's a way. How much does a cell phone cost these days? $1000? + $100/month data? No one buys laptops anymore. Buy a tablet or chrome book for $200, no monthly sub.
Movie Theater Diary
Thank you for everything you raise in this. I was trying to figure out how to say it, but decided I didn't want to (hi everyone, I'm posting a lot on Match Cut today because I'm avoiding other, much more important work).
You kind of get into this with the coffee maker analogy, but I'd like to highlight that a smartphone really isn't that expensive. It increases your monthly cell phone bill a bit to pay for data, true, but the one-time cost of the device outright is often noticeably less than what one pays for rent in a month. Not being able to afford such a thing probably means you have virtually no discretionary income.
And thank you for this, too. I teach at a college now (while a grad student) and there is such a perverse disconnect between the outrageous stereotypes of lazy millennials (or whatever this generation ends up being called) being perpetuated and the curious, thoughtful, hard-working kids I see in my classroom (not all of them, obviously, but a lot of them!). Crazy thing: You can reblog cat photos on Tumblr, be committed to principles of social justice, and spend six hours a day looking for work. I know people who've done this!
....heeeey...
Last edited by Skitch; 06-08-2017 at 08:55 PM.
Hear hear. My laptop is essential to my job pursuits. I didn't buy it so I could Steam all day.
You know your comment may come off as flippant but I can not wait until I'm to the place financially where I can complain about other people buying stuff I currently can't afford! If you have an extra supply of fancy smartphones send them my way, I sure would like them. Maybe I could sell them to buy a new computer in which google chrome didn't tell me my browser was no longer supported.
Yeah, I need to have one for work, and being able work/write wherever I am is essential to my current lifestyle. I'd imagine people are still buying them since most of my students have them and I can still buy a decent one for ~$300. Keyboards are necessary.
Desktops I think are long on their way out, but I'm a dinosaur and need one.
I was actually talking to my dad about this over the weekend. He was lamenting that my generation didn't have a good work ethic, and I had to explain a lot of what we have to deal with: wage stagnation, lack of affordable housing, increasing income equality, automation/overseas job loss. I also explained that many of my generation have a strong work ethic (although many of us have to because many of my peers live in Los Angeles with me, and half-assing simply isn't an option given cost of living). He relented a bit, which is progress.
This isn't really a good way of comparing standards of living. The cost of many "luxury goods" has fallen dramatically (relative to wages) since the great depression due to technology advances and overseas manufacturing. But the cost of housing has gone up relative to wages (massively so in major cities), and that's by far the largest expense for someone on a low income. People all over the world, in very poor areas, can often afford cell phones even if they can't afford a decent place to live.
I'd also argue that the internet is as essential now as a telephone used to be. And tangentially, are people in the US really paying $100/month for a cell phone? I pay significantly less for my monthly iphone bill than I used to pay for a landline. And the phone came free with the contract.
I am impatient of all misery in others that is not mad. Thou should'st go mad, blacksmith; say, why dost thou not go mad? How can'st thou endure without being mad? Do the heavens yet hate thee, that thou can'st not go mad?
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