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Thread: Glass (M. Night Shyamalan)

  1. #76
    See, I have never, ever been a fan of "so bad, it's good" movie watching. I don't begrudge it at all, but I have basically found all of these celebrated trash "classics" (e.g., The Room, Plan 9 from Outer Space, Cabin Boy...) to be... crappy and boring.
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  2. #77
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    See, I have never, ever been a fan of "so bad, it's good" movie watching. I don't begrudge it at all, but I have basically found all of these celebrated trash "classics" (e.g., The Room, Plan 9 from Outer Space, Cabin Boy...) to be... crappy and boring.
    I don’t enjoy any of the ones you listed.

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  3. #78
    Moderator Dead & Messed Up's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    Um, this "being charitable" thing is exactly what mainstream audiences do, and it's the reasons a whole lot of dreck makes a whole lot of money. I'm not sure film criticism needs to follow the same path. (Though, I think a lot of film criticism already has. So many critically celebrated films have massive flaws front and center.)
    I'd agree that my thinking could lead to excusing some mediocrity along the way, for sure. But I do think my approach is different to more casual moviegoers, where it's less about them seeking out the best way to view a film and more about them simply not caring. And this method hasn't really "excused" too many films, I don't think. I was dissatisfied with Infinity War and Incredibles 2 even after trying to find positive ways to view their narrative/theming/aesthetic (Crazy Rich Asians is headed in the same direction). Irony: the more I searched for ways to enjoy Infinity War, the more frustrated I became, as the issues I had with the film just became more clear to me as core miscalculations.

    In other words, I think we could stand to be a little stricter on many of these films. I'm heading in the opposite direction to D&MU - I have less and less tolerance for mainstream blockbusters that are soulless at their core with easter eggs, endless callbacks to other soulless blockbusters, and the odd piece of random esoterics layered on top. So many mainstream films are just "I RECOGNIZE THAT REFERENCE" set to shit blowing up.
    I definitely agree that films that crutch on reference recognition alone should be justifiably criticized for that, and in general I bristle at the current overreliance on nostalgic properties, but I honestly think that few blockbusters are "soulless" and more that the souls of the craftsman are partially obscured, maybe sometimes to the point that the films seem vacant. A good example is Kong: Skull Island, which I think I liked better than most, because there was an intriguing push/pull between the film's humanism and its gallows-humor nihilism (I swear, I think about Shea Wigham's pointless sacrifice once every couple weeks). I think the film is definitely compromised by the requirements of genre and studio direction, but even then, I can see a "soul" in the film."

    Trans, it could be that, much like David Dunn and Mr. Glass, we had to find each other so we could recognize our opposition for what it is. Bwaaaam.

  4. #79
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    How does trans know about all these easter eggs I wonder? Does it require him to watch a youtube video before his mind confirms to hate the movie?
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  5. #80
    I get that you cannot comprehend people disliking the MCU, but try not to be too reductive about it.
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  6. #81
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    (e.g., The Room, Plan 9 from Outer Space, Cabin Boy...).
    As a fairly strong champion of so bad it's good, even I have limits. Cabin Boy aside, those others are so awful they wouldn't even be enjoyable if MST3K did them. I can enjoy something like Top Gun on so bad it's good level, but the vast majority of MST3K films are only endurable because of their commentary.

    I get genuinely irritated when I read a post online and someone says "the worst movie ever made" and they're not talking about a film MST3K covered. I dont care what it is. Example, are the Transformers movies good? Of course not. They also wouldn't make the top 300 worst movies of all time at least, no matter how irritating one may find them.

  7. #82
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    I get genuinely irritated when I read a post online and someone says "the worst movie ever made" and they're not talking about a film MST3K covered. I dont care what it is. Example, are the Transformers movies good? Of course not. They also wouldn't make the top 300 worst movies of all time at least, no matter how irritating one may find them.
    I've never seen MST3K, but from what I understand, most of the films they make fun of are Z-grade schlock that never had any real chance of being good in the first place. I also haven't seen any of the The Transformers films, but from what I've heard, they're schlock with better production values, which doesn't seem to me much of an improvement. On the contrary, I would argue that technique in and of itself is pointless unless it's being put to some purpose.
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  8. #83
    Quote Quoting Dead & Messed Up (view post)
    I definitely agree that films that crutch on reference recognition alone should be justifiably criticized for that, and in general I bristle at the current overreliance on nostalgic properties, but I honestly think that few blockbusters are "soulless" and more that the souls of the craftsman are partially obscured, maybe sometimes to the point that the films seem vacant. A good example is Kong: Skull Island, which I think I liked better than most, because there was an intriguing push/pull between the film's humanism and its gallows-humor nihilism (I swear, I think about Shea Wigham's pointless sacrifice once every couple weeks). I think the film is definitely compromised by the requirements of genre and studio direction, but even then, I can see a "soul" in the film.
    For me, it's not really the "depth" of a movie in terms of theme and subtext that I am talking about when I mean "soul" - I mean when a film that is actually written, shot, edited, and scored in a way where each piece of the cinematic puzzle comes together to generate the alchemy that a great film achieves - everything just fits together and for a spell you are transported by the film, rather than simply "noticing" stuff (wow, that room is red like Kurosawa's stuff, wow, Johnson really gave it to the fanboys, wow, Tom Hardy is like, drunk and having a stroke in this, cool!"). (PS that is royal "you", not you specifically.) That is why I actually I loved Hereditary because Aster shows a great understanding of how to pace a scene and build atmosphere, though he loses the thread of his story by the end. Even The Quiet Place has a 5-minute sequence cross-cutting between Jim outside and Mary Poppins in the bathtub where everything comes together perfectly. To me, that is a million times more valuable than some screenwriter getting Tom Hardy to call himself a pussy.

    It's just my belief that in the last ten years, there has been a significant loss of interest in actual competent filmmaking among both general audiences and online critics in favor of "fun"/callbacks/continuity and social relevance/cinematic allusions, respectively.
    Last edited by transmogrifier; 01-19-2019 at 07:32 AM.
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

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    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

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  9. #84
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    I've never seen MST3K, but from what I understand...

    I also haven't seen any of the The Transformers films, but from what I've heard...

    On the contrary, I would argue...
    ...

  10. #85
    I mean, he's just being honest. And he heard right.
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
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  11. #86
    Moderator Dead & Messed Up's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    For me, it's not really the "depth" of a movie in terms of theme and subtext that I am talking about when I mean "soul" - I mean when a film that is actually written, shot, edited, and scored in a way where each piece of the cinematic puzzle comes together to generate the alchemy that a great film achieves - everything just fits together and for a spell you are transported by the film, rather than simply "noticing" stuff (wow, that room is red like Kurosawa's stuff, wow, Johnson really gave it to the fanboys, wow, Tom Hardy is like, drunk and having a stroke in this, cool!"). (PS that is royal "you", not you specifically.) That is why I actually I loved Hereditary because Aster shows a great understanding of how to pace a scene and build atmosphere, though he loses the thread of his story by the end. Even The Quiet Place has a 5-minute sequence cross-cutting between Jim outside and Mary Poppins in the bathtub where everything comes together perfectly. To me, that is a million times more valuable than some screenwriter getting Tom Hardy to call himself a pussy.

    It's just my belief that in the last ten years, there has been a significant loss of interest in actual competent filmmaking among both general audiences and online critics in favor of "fun"/callbacks/continuity and social relevance/cinematic allusions, respectively.
    Seems like we have different definitions of what "soulless" filmmaking is, then, which is fair enough. For me, "soulful" filmmaking is where you can get some sense of the "soul" that's making the film and what they're chasing / what they care about / what brings them real awe or joy or fear. Your definition seems to be more like "filmmaking that stirs the viewer's soul by the unifying of elements into transcendent moments." If that's the case, I understand why you feel there'd be a lack of it in mainstream cinema.

  12. #87
    Since 1929 Morris Schæffer's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting megladon8 (view post)

    Jen and I watched Stone Cold (action flick with Brian Bosworth) the other night, and the horrid writing / acting / ridiculousness of it all was kind of WHY I found it so glorious.
    Lol, based on this post I also watched it. I can't give it a good score, but I kinda get your point.

    This must be one of the few action movies in existence where the bad guys actually achieve their goal before they're blown away.
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