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Thread: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Gareth Edwards)

  1. #26
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting [ETM] (view post)
    This is essentially my entire problem with it: once I started noticing the flaws, the lack of attachment to anything that was going on caused me to sit there and scrutinize every aspect of the film far more than anyone should on a first viewing. A friend who was next to me (and who always favored the Dark Side in anything SW) kept raising his hands in disbelief every time Stormtroopers missed everyone and/or ran blindly out of a corner or into the open only to be promptly killed. Even the hyped "Death troopers". When the annoyance started, it just snowballed from there. I mean, by the time hope was mentioned in some context, we all started guessing out loud in unison before someone said it on screen, and the movie's final line was met with groans.
    You guys were mad about storm troopers missing their shots? Was this your first Star Wars movie? Or is this just the biggest nit pick ever?

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  2. #27
    Second star to the right [ETM]'s Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    You guys were mad about storm troopers missing their shots? Was this your first Star Wars movie? Or is this just the biggest nit pick ever?
    But isn't this supposed to be a new thing? Darker and more actiony? I'm not mentioning it as a nitpick, just, as I said, as an example of stuff that starts to bother you when there's nothing to grab you and shift your focus.

  3. #28
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    The clones have always been clumsy. I don't know why you would expect any different in this movie.

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  4. #29
    Moderator TGM's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    What tropes?
    Maybe I'm using the wrong word or misusing the word, but basically, they all had their one cliche characteristic, and that was it. The all serious all the time gunner, the grumpy male protagonist, the quirky technician, the peaceful blind man who can take everyone out despite his limitations, etc. And that was all there was to each character, it really didn't go anything beyond just their one specific characteristic of choice. They didn't feel like three-dimension people, they felt like lifeless chess pieces who each had their specific role to play.

    Stick anyone in Poe's character and the movie is exactly same. We didn't care about him. How about Gwendoline Christie? What a waste of a casting.
    I'm not even gonna disagree with you here. I'm not going to try and present an argument that Poe was a super deep and well written character. That said, Oscar Isaac took a character who didn't really have a whole lot going on with him on the page and did a hell of a lot with him purely on a performance level, hence them re-writing his role late in the game to bring him back near the end. And he's become somewhat of a fan favorite, so I'll be interested to see how they do flesh out his character in future movies.

    And yes, Gwendoline Christie was wasted. Hell, I'm not even sure if she's supposed to be confirmed dead or not, to see if she'll also have a chance to return and redeem herself later on. But as it stands now, I agree with you here.

    My main point was in regards to our main cast we follow, though, Rey, Finn, and Kylo Ren, who all were extremely well handled, and felt like fully fleshed out three dimension characters who we could really connect to. And that's precisely what Rogue One was missing. Even if only the main two protagonists filled this role, that could've been enough to suffice, but we didn't even get that much.

    Not really.
    I dunno, I see your gif there (though it's loading a bit choppy for me atm), but yet I still recall it still looking like it was moving in slow-mo during the actual movie. *shrug*

  5. #30
    Moderator Dead & Messed Up's Avatar
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    I mean, if we want to unpack the character issues with The Force Awakens, I could spend all day arguing with TGM about the foundation-free empty-headed "charm" of Finn and Rey, who succeed at all because Daisy Ridley and John Boyega are straight-up charming as fuck.

    But, with that bit of gentle trolling out of the way, let's get to this movie, which absolutely has problems establishing and developing its characters, but makes them function just enough and, like TFA, casts them with immediately likable actors, so that when bad things happen, I gave a bit of a shit. K2 and Chinwe are the obvious highlights.

    The flick, like all of Edwards' work, demonstrates an incredible sense of scale and tactility. I loved that the space battle is resolved by treating the spaceships as objects instead of laser-shooters. One spaceship pushes another one, which collides into another, which collapses onto the shield. This might seem meaningless or superficial, but it's a reminder that Edwards sees effects more like characters than razzle-dazzle, and that's so so so so goddamn important in an age where spectacle is everywhere and increasingly meaningless.*

    Like most of y'all, the flick felt like it was treading water to start, but I was engaged after the Jedha battle with the rag-tag team assembled, and I was especially involved when the big fat action climax kicked in. And, crazily, the climax is bested by that horrifying epilogue where Darth Vader is going after the plans, which the Rebels are chucking from one horrified red shirt to the other like the world's deadliest game of Hot Potato. It's a foregone conclusion Vader won't get it, but you remember the power and ferocity of this character, which has maybe never felt so amoral and (again) tactile. That sequence is immediately one of the great scenes in Star Wars history.*

    * Those comments lead to my favorite thing about this movie: it's a Star War that feels like it's operating in an actual war. People die. The Buck Rodgers spirit of the originals is dumped, and a lot of viewers might be surprised that this film functions as a battlefield story. Lots of casualties, hints of moral ambiguity, little room for humor outside of K2's merciful palette-cleansers (which ironically bring laughs by emphasizing how desperate the situation is at any given moment).

    Oh, and fuck those CG OT humans. Why why why why why. Why. We didn't need any of them. The drama with Tarkin could've been drama with someone else (or more drama with Vader, who doesn't look like he's made of rubber), and the scene with Leia at the end almost ruins the insane level of goodwill generated by the sequence with Vader.

    It's so goddamn unnecessary.

    It's a good Star War, but with more qualifiers than I was really hoping for.

  6. #31
    Winston* Classic Winston*'s Avatar
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    CGI Peter Cushing was insanely bad and I'd maybe argue unethical. How come Crispin Glover was able to sue Zemekis for using his likeness in Back to the Future but they're able to just reanimate a long dead actor for this?

    Enjoyed the movie though.

  7. #32
    Winston* Classic Winston*'s Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dead & Messed Up (view post)

    * Those comments lead to my favorite thing about this movie: it's a Star War that feels like it's operating in an actual war. People die. The Buck Rodgers spirit of the originals is dumped, and a lot of viewers might be surprised that this film functions as a battlefield story. Lots of casualties, hints of moral ambiguity, little room for humor outside of K2's merciful palette-cleansers (which ironically bring laughs by emphasizing how desperate the situation is at any given moment).
    .
    [
    ]

    The other characters were fine to me because I feel they were given enough shading through performance and implied backstory for me to invest, but what was Luna's deal? Hard to think of a single defineable character trait.

  8. #33
    Supporting Actor slqrick's Avatar
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    Thinly written characters for sure, and wish they did more with such a great and diverse cast. I also hate the "save crying child in the middle of a battlefield" trope as a narrative shortcut to provide characterization, just needed to say that. That being said, probably my favorite of the series although I'm definitely not really a fan of the movies (the OG Clone Wars cartoon is my favorite Star Wars thing). Loved how they took out the glamour and fantasy of the universe to deliver something that at times was quite unnverving. Alan Tudyk was the definite MVP, incredible addition to the droid world.

  9. #34
    Moderator Dead & Messed Up's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Winston* (view post)
    CGI Peter Cushing was insanely bad and I'd maybe argue unethical. How come Crispin Glover was able to sue Zemekis for using his likeness in Back to the Future but they're able to just reanimate a long dead actor for this?

    Enjoyed the movie though.
    They cleared it with Cushing's estate. But it sets an uneasy precedent. And it looked awful, although I'm told some movie-goers didn't even recognize it as CGI.

  10. #35
    Moderator Dead & Messed Up's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Winston* (view post)
    [
    ]

    The other characters were fine to me because I feel they were given enough shading through performance and implied backstory for me to invest, but what was Luna's deal? Hard to think of a single defineable character trait.
    He didn't have any distinguishing "traits" beyond his decaying sense of righteousness, which Jyn and Galen reinvigorate in him, but I thought his moral complexity was intriguing (if a little opaque at times). He opens with icing the one guy, plans to kill Galen, etc.

    As to his death, the second I saw he had a short fall, I was waiting for him to Tolkien Eagle his way back into the story, which he did, but then I liked that he died with Jyn. It's just a shame that their final scene is only sorta affecting when it should've felt goddamn tragic and bittersweet and elevating. By comparison, it was truly shocking when K2SO was getting pelted until he died. I didn't think for a second the most kiddie-friendly character in the film would buy it in such a cruel way. (And I loved that! Fuck yeah, K2, going out like a fuckin' champ.)

  11. #36
    Since 1929 Morris Schæffer's Avatar
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    Assorted thoughts (spoilers):



    - I liked the movie a lot, the sheer sense of spectacle won me over. This was my first IMAX 3D screening with Dolby Atmos to boot and it was sort of revelatory. Never knew I could have 3D with a stunningly bright screen at the same time. Right before the movie started I realized that the whole IMAX screen wasn't going to be used since Rogue One probably wasn't filmed like that, but nevertheless the size of the screen + bright 3D kicked ass. Purely on a visual level, one of the most immersive experiences I've had in quite some time despite the 75 minute drive to Brussels. It would appear I have found my movie screen for Avatar 2,3 and 4.

    - CGI characters very weird. Duke made the comparison to Schwarzenegger, but those were dimly-lit scenes from what I recall with the T-800 emoting even less than Steven Seagal which possibly reduced uncanny valley. Cushing was front and center, sneering, the face was very detailed, but again, bad choice methinks. Why not stick with face seen in the window reflection instead? I mean, the voice is already there as well so having the face reflected in the window is a very nice touch and leaves no doubt it's Tarkin. Would be cool if 4D allowed us to smell his foul stench. Or perhaps not. CGI Leia was a very brief scene, but bad choice as well. How bout the doors zoom open and we simply see her from behind, fade to black? Anything but this full frontal close-up. Still, 1977 CGI Leia looked more real than 2015 real Leia.

    - Damu has said a few posts above that Edwards "demonstrates an incredible sense of scale and tactility. I loved that the space battle is resolved by treating the spaceships as objects instead of laser-shooters. One spaceship pushes another one, which collides into another, which collapses onto the shield."

    This was a really cool sequence, but can we say the same about the AT-AT walkers? The scale was there and they looked fearsome in IMAX 3D except they were cannon fodder period. Remember how they were taken down in Empire Strikes Back? First by tow cable, then by Luke using a sort of graple hook, so ingenious, turning these hulking beasts into sort of mini movies within the movie itself. And that was needed too because 1980 Luke says they're too strong for their lasers and they need to use harpoons instead. These thing brake in half like they're literally melting apart. So either the AT-AT's have gotten more advanced or X-Wings are more advanced than snow speeders at taking these hulks down. And if we're talking about a general lack of hopelesness and opposition during the final 30 minutes, then perhaps this is why. Shit blows up all too easily. The sort of shit that really should put up a bigger fight. They're like the Raiders of the Lost Ark swordsman.

    - So yeah, main characters die, which is in line with the sort of movie it is, and which I did appreciate, but I don't think I'm gonna equate that with this mission being soaked in misery and "it-couldn't-possibly-succeed" veneer which they kinda say it is when Jynn meets Andor's rag tag team of Cosmic Dirty Dozen. It's definitely more climactic than the final mission in The Force Awakens if not quite Saving Private Ryan's levels. Chirrut walking casually up to that big old lever which seems to scream "PULL ME!!!" while mumbling something about the Force (again!) was sort of indicative of that. It's facile and means the writers can foregoe the need to actually craft something genuinely thrilling and moving involving the need for a lever to be pulled. At least K-2SO, who is Rogue One's Boromir, took it like a man in a great scene. When his eyes extinguish I knew I had found the most powerful scene in the entire movie. Not sure that is really praise with so many humans in it too.

    - This movie moves too fast and is a bit too noisy. The score especially is incessant. What happened to introspection, what happened to quietly engaging talky scenes in the Star Wars universe? Remember that scene in Saving Private Ryan in the church when they're just reminiscing about folks with bombs going off in the distant horizon? That creates camaraderie, familiarity, chemistry between players. Rogue One moves blindingly fast. Do they not trust moviegoers to stay awake during a Star Wars movie? Is that the difference between a 145 and a 150 million opening weekend? It is possibly just a little too action-packed for my tastes.
    Last edited by Morris Schæffer; 12-18-2016 at 08:58 AM.
    MOVIES

    [+] closer to next rating / [-] closer to previous rating

    • Son of Saul (Nemes, 2015) ✦✦✦ [+]
    • Cast Away (Zemeckis, 2000) ✦✦✦✦ -- rewatch
    • Hudson Hawk (Lehmann, 1991) [+]
    • Extraction (Hargrave, 2020) ✦✦½ [-]
    • Underwater (Eubank, 2020) ✦✦✦ [-]
    • Leviathan (Cosmatos, 1989) ✦✦ [-] -- rewatch
    • The Remains of the Day (Ivory, 1993) ✦✦✦½ [-]
    • The Call of the Wild (Sanders, 2020) ✦✦ [+]
    • Saving Mr. Banks (Hancock, 2013) ✦✦½ [-]
    • The Princess Bride (Reiner, 1987) ✦✦ [+]
    • Hunt for the Wilderpeople (Waititi, 2016) ✦✦✦ [+]
    • The Invisible Man (Whannell, 2020) ✦✦✦✦

    TV

    • Ozark (S1) ✦✦✦½ [-] / Killing Eve (S3) ✦✦ [+] / Orange is the New Black (S7) ✦✦✦ [-]
    • Orange is the New Black (S6) ✦✦½ [+] / The Man in the High Castle (S4) ✦✦✦½ [+] / Orange is the New Black (S5) ✦½ [+]

    ====================
    LAST THINGS BOUGHT

    • E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial (Spielberg, 1982) -- 4K Ultra HD / Universal Studios
    • Schindler's List (Spielberg, 1993) -- 4K Ultra HD / Universal Studios
    • Saving Private Ryan (Spielberg, 1998) -- 4K Ultra HD / Paramount Pictures
    • Spider-Man 2 (Raimi, 2004) -- 4K Ultra HD / Sony Pictures
    • Narrow Margin (Hyams, 1990) -- Blu-ray / Koch Media


  12. #37
    Second star to the right [ETM]'s Avatar
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    Cushing looked over-animated instead of motion-captured. The grimaces and mannerisms were much closer to how a Pixar character moves than what a person's face does. I suspended my disbelief but it was really noticeable.

    The fact that some were fooled explains a lot about the positive reception this is getting.

  13. #38
    Since 1929 Morris Schæffer's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting [ETM] (view post)
    Cushing looked over-animated instead of motion-captured. The grimaces and mannerisms were much closer to how a Pixar character moves than what a person's face does. I suspended my disbelief but it was really noticeable.
    Yep, that's exactly it. Note to CGI wizards, take it easy!
    MOVIES

    [+] closer to next rating / [-] closer to previous rating

    • Son of Saul (Nemes, 2015) ✦✦✦ [+]
    • Cast Away (Zemeckis, 2000) ✦✦✦✦ -- rewatch
    • Hudson Hawk (Lehmann, 1991) [+]
    • Extraction (Hargrave, 2020) ✦✦½ [-]
    • Underwater (Eubank, 2020) ✦✦✦ [-]
    • Leviathan (Cosmatos, 1989) ✦✦ [-] -- rewatch
    • The Remains of the Day (Ivory, 1993) ✦✦✦½ [-]
    • The Call of the Wild (Sanders, 2020) ✦✦ [+]
    • Saving Mr. Banks (Hancock, 2013) ✦✦½ [-]
    • The Princess Bride (Reiner, 1987) ✦✦ [+]
    • Hunt for the Wilderpeople (Waititi, 2016) ✦✦✦ [+]
    • The Invisible Man (Whannell, 2020) ✦✦✦✦

    TV

    • Ozark (S1) ✦✦✦½ [-] / Killing Eve (S3) ✦✦ [+] / Orange is the New Black (S7) ✦✦✦ [-]
    • Orange is the New Black (S6) ✦✦½ [+] / The Man in the High Castle (S4) ✦✦✦½ [+] / Orange is the New Black (S5) ✦½ [+]

    ====================
    LAST THINGS BOUGHT

    • E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial (Spielberg, 1982) -- 4K Ultra HD / Universal Studios
    • Schindler's List (Spielberg, 1993) -- 4K Ultra HD / Universal Studios
    • Saving Private Ryan (Spielberg, 1998) -- 4K Ultra HD / Paramount Pictures
    • Spider-Man 2 (Raimi, 2004) -- 4K Ultra HD / Sony Pictures
    • Narrow Margin (Hyams, 1990) -- Blu-ray / Koch Media


  14. #39
    quarantined Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dead & Messed Up (view post)
    But it sets an uneasy precedent.
    Will everyone please go watch The Congress now? PLEASE?
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  15. #40
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Look at how good Michael Douglas looks here.



    Dimly lit sure. BUt there's no hint of CGI at all.


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  16. #41
    Moderator TGM's Avatar
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    You mean to tell me you guys didn't like when CGI Leia turned to look directly in the camera and namedrop A New Hope with a wink and a smile to the audience?

  17. #42
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    You mean to tell me you guys didn't like when CGI Leia turned to look directly in the camera and namedrop A New Hope with a wink and a smile to the audience?
    No because it was already said an hour earlier by Jyn.

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  18. #43
    Second star to the right [ETM]'s Avatar
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    All of my friends said the line over her and groaned. Not a good ending note for a movie.

  19. #44
    This thing where prestige-blockbusters exist only to reference earlier films has to stop. My god, trust your fucking movie to stand on its own without CGI-returns of characters and actual clips from the movie you're making a prequel to.

  20. #45
    Winston* Classic Winston*'s Avatar
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    Quote Quoting [ETM] (view post)
    All of my friends said the line over her and groaned. Not a good ending note for a movie.
    Reminds me of this:

  21. #46
    Winston* Classic Winston*'s Avatar
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    Bonus Star Wars sketch (one of my favourite sketches ever).


  22. #47
    Sunshine and peace Wryan's Avatar
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    Did Leia say "Hope" or "A new hope"? I was too busy looking at her skin cells hydroplaning around her face.
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  23. #48
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Hope.

    A new hope is referring to something entirely different.
    Last edited by Dukefrukem; 12-18-2016 at 10:06 PM.

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  24. #49

  25. #50
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Been waiting for that.

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