Moana (Ron Clements, John Musker)

[TGM]

Moana is better than all three of those. Comfortably so, in fact.

That's not even remotely accurate.

[Spinal]

If anything, this film made me appreciate Zootopia more, with its focus and vision. It gets a little blunt with its messaging at times, but its characters are far more rich, its drama is far more engaging, its humor far more witty.

[[ETM]]

I have just seen it again and it's just as good. I actually have far more problems with Zootopia and I honestly don't feel the urge to ever see it again.

[transmogrifier]

That's not even remotely accurate.

Disagree. Zootopia and Inside Out are up there as the most overrated animated films of recent years. Moana blows both of them out of the water.

[transmogrifier]

If anything, this film made me appreciate Zootopia more, with its focus and vision. It gets a little blunt with its messaging at times, but its characters are far more rich, its drama is far more engaging, its humor far more witty.

See, I found Moana much funnier than Zootopia, which basically became a one-note, overly plotty message movie.

[Dead & Messed Up]

And don't forget that Zootopia bases its story on a foundation of savagery-tamed animals (predators), which is creepily familiar to anyone who's read Kipling and that whole "white man's burden" business.

[transmogrifier]

And don't forget that Zootopia bases its story on a foundation of savagery-tamed animals (predators), which is creepily familiar to anyone who's read Kipling and that whole "white man's burden" business.

Yeah, the allegory does not hold up to scrutiny at all. Which wouldn't really matter if the surface elements (plotting, jokes, direction) were better.

[Spinal]

Anyway, who cares about these films? I really just want to see The Red Turtle.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Anyway, who cares about these films? I really just want to see The Red Turtle.

I need to find a friend who's up for The Lego Batman Movie.

[Winston*]

Anyway, who cares about these films? I really just want to see The Red Turtle.

It's great.

[Dukefrukem]

I hated the chicken. but the rest of the movie is pretty lovely and charming. Fun. sweet. etc.

You hated Becky?

[Dukefrukem]

Mild yay. In the midlest of yays possible. Took forever to get going and I was hoping there would be more sea monsters to battle on the journey. Songs were OK- and I'm really quite shocked the one nominated for best song wasn't You're Welcome. Anyone starting to notice the lack of originally from Pixar lately? The dumb chicken was a retread from Becky in Finding Dory. The pile of rocks to put your mark on the island was a retread from the Foot Print in The Good Dinosaur.

[TGM]

Anyone starting to notice the lack of originally from Pixar lately? The dumb chicken was a retread from Becky in Finding Dory. The pile of rocks to put your mark on the island was a retread from the Foot Print in The Good Dinosaur.

This wasn't Pixar, it was Disney Animation.

[Dukefrukem]

Wow. I had it in my mind it was Pixar since the first trailer.

[TGM]

[Morris Schæffer]

This didn't work for me. It's the same underlying premise I've seen far too many times before in animation, the action is typically frenetic to the point of sucking any thrill out of it, the bad guys are exagerated (look out! It's huge fire dude!! And he actually chucks fireballs!!), the way they're vanquished easy and rote even though the movie approaches everything as if it's a do or die quest that is sure to fail. Yes, it looks really good, but name me an animated film that doesn't these days? One character exits early on and I kept thinking "yeah like you're gone for good!" I felt no joy, no sort of empowerment with Moana taking to the ocean and conquering the big blue.

[[ETM]]

Well, can't win them all. To me, the soundtrack alone is better than entire other films.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Dukefrukem]

To me, the soundtrack alone is better than entire other films.

True statement.

[number8]

This has sit really well with me over time. Especially the ending, which I only realize after the fact is a pretty clever subversion of a trope and the reason why it initially read as off on first viewing. The movie proceeds for most of its run time acting like Maui is the one with the biggest character arc, who has to learn that what he did to Te Fiti was wrong and need to be reversed, and that's a pretty standard moral lesson in this type of hero's journey, where if you've done something wrong, you have to also take responsibility and fix it. The expectation of this narrative is that Maui, with Moana's aid, sets things right, is humbled, and learns a lesson about respecting others and accepting help. But that's not where the movie goes to, because the story is about Moana, not him. Here, no matter how remorseful Maui is, he still looks at Te Ka and sees only a giant lava monster he has to fight to get to the objective. So he fails.

Instead, Moana comes in as a third party, and she's the one who's able to see that Te Ka is just a representation of Te Fiti's anger. Moana sees the angry, fiery Te Ka as someone who should nevertheless be given respect and compassion, rather than a dangerous giant to be fought, and does exactly that. Te Ka, in turn, gives Moana the benefit of the doubt and allows her to restore her heart, something she would never have allowed Maui to even try, him being her aggressor.

So the movie's message isn't the outdated notion that when you've wronged someone, you just need to do whatever it takes to fix it and then you can become a hero again. The movie's message is that when you've wronged someone, you accept that you're an asshole who deserves to have your power taken away from you, make way for someone else better suited to help your victim, and once your victim has begun healing, you can sincerely ask for forgiveness and maybe be allowed to make yourself whole again. I dunno, I think that's pretty cool.

[Henry Gale]

That beautifully nails why the ending works so well for me too, though it definitely connected for me in an inarticulated emotional way than as clearly and consciously as that. And I remember the strength of those sort of narrative choices being impressive to me, and then especially disheartening and even baffling when I'd hear some feel it was a pretty by-the-numbers prophesized Chosen One narrative, just deemed new and progressive because it's centered on a woman of colour who rejects being a standard princess (which, by the way, is still nothing to scoff at for any movie as important for its key demographic, especially since even Mulan was almost two decades earlier and Princess and the Frog was never as big as it should've been).

And in one of those oddly common coincidences of animated movies sharing very similar themes in the same years, I feel like the "final boss" subversion of the films and their characters ending things with compassion for their purported villains gives it a lovely companionship to Kubo and the Two Strings, allowing reconciliation for their destruction through forcing a purity of memory to de-cloud their antagonism.

I will say though I somehow still haven't seen this since the screening I kicked off this thread with, and I should really correct that. (Same goes for me and Zootopia, actually! What nice double feature potential Disney Animation gave in 2016.)