Going through a miserable period. Looking for advice fellas!

[Morris Schæffer]

I know I know, ask people whom you can actually meet face to face right. Perhaps it's because I can't see you guys that this is easier. And I value your advice. So try to picture yourself in the situation I'm about to describe if you will.

It's work-related. I have a great job, but something happened the last 2 weeks. Our department is two cubicles with 4 people in each cubicle. One dude in the other cubicle, with whom I'm ironically enough carpooling each day, and is generally quite ok, has been in our cubicle a number of days now for several hours because he's working on a project with a dude from my cubicle.

Still following? Great.

Now, this fella from the other cubicle, the source of my torment, keeps provoking me again and again during work by altering the song that's currently on the radio and inserting my name into it at several intervals, or cracking jokes about my sexual orientation in front of everyone else. I'm single, and choosing not to have a relationship for the moment, but this is the sort of fella who thinks you're a homosexual when you're a single man or at least thinks it's quite allright to keep making jokes about that. Now, please understand, I'm not opposed to some on-the-job teasing, but it's the repetitive nature and that he has without a doubt singled me out from everyone else that makes this whole thing extremely exhausting and unpleasant. Now, usually he's in his own cubicle which makes things a lot more bearable, but does it matter?

Something's broken inside me. I didn't go to work on friday and feigned an illness. I'm 40 years old, have 15 years of experience, love my work, see myself retiring there, and I'm being fucking harassed by a 24-year old infant. One more thing, this guy he doesn't slow down. You tell him you're getting angered and that's what he wants to hear, he doesn't slow down and he'll continue. The other guys in the cubicle are hearing this too, but they're not acting. One of them is actually our manager of the entire department, but he doesn't act either. Probably thinking it's just some banter between colleagues although I detect his ennui sometimes too. It gets better. Two weeks ago he told me someone in his cubicle was doing the same to him and that he didn't like that. Once or twice sure, but that it got annoying really fast if the other guy kept continuing. So that means he gets how annoying that can be when you're singled out by another. Why does he think it's ok then to do the same to me? I have literally done nothing wrong to him.

I repeat, I can take a joke from time to time, but at this point I have to assume he's decided he needed a punching bag and for that person to be me. I don't understand why he thinks this is all ok? Is he unaware he's doing any harm? He's a soccer player so this sort of infantile, puerile behaviour is probably par for the course for those fellas. This is a company though and I've got about 25 years to go. There are no issues in terms of work itself, we strangely enough work well together, but I also admit that that's me. Work takes priority over everything else, I don't want to be the guy who fucks things up because then he's got even more leverage over me.

There are times when I feel close to exploding, stand up to him, but what good will that do? I'm not looking to get fired, I don't want to debase myself down to his game. I'm respected and appreciated by everyone in the company and so I incur all this shit, I soak it up like a sponge. And he's aware of that, he's aware he's got the upper hand. Which is why this shit continues.

Do you understand? Is this harassment? Considering I feel terrible and on edge at work, I would have to say "YES!". I mean, none of the things he says are really vile, but it just keeps going on and on and on and never to the other guys. It's literally always me and it's the repetitive nature that makes it so exhausting, so frustrating. At this point he knows he's frustrating me and that's what bothers me the most. That he's not backing down.

I'm incredibly close to speaking to Top Management about this, but have not yet pulled the proverbial trigger. They have always been very open, very inviting about speaking about whatever issues were clouding one's mind so I know I'll have their attention. And I think they think highly of me as an employee and as a human being so that helps.

What good will that do however? I know the other guy will probably not get fired, his work is good also, so what kind of solution is in store? If I arrived at work on monday and I heard that he was gone, I'd be satisfied, relieved, but I don't think that will happen. Nor will I embellish to get him fired, that's just not who I am. You know, he would probably think I was a wuss who went crying to his mummy if he were to find out I ratted him out. He just doesn't seem mature enough to be able to handle that. And chances are things in our department will never be the same. He might even find more clandestine ways of getting me riled up. Although that's conjecture. Which I shouldn't do.

I'm going to work on monday and not looking forward to it. And that tears me up inside because this is my bread and butter we're talking about. He'll be in his own cubicle again since the project with the other fella was, God-willing, concluded so that helps, but as I said, some serious damage has been done and right now I consider working with him extremely unpleasant. In fact, I do not consider him a particularly fine example of a human being.

What would you do?

Thanks for reading guys!

[Irish]

This is tricky because most of the people on Match Cut are American and you're in Europe, and the laws there are very different.

But generally, you gotta cut bullshit like this off at the knees one way or the other.

First, start keeping a written log of every single incident with time and date, who was there, etc.

I'd give the kid a chance, though. If he's super young he's might not be used to a corporate environment. So I'd pull him aside and talk to him. Take him to lunch or to a pub and lay it out. Be very friendly (and pay for the lunch or beer, if you do that). Tell him exactly what you told us but in a firmer tone. Make it clear that there are consequences if he persists, and that the next step is going to your manager, human resources, or upper management.

Right after you pull the kid aside, talk to your manager and tell him what's up. If you're friendly with him then ask that he back your play.

If the kid persists, ask the kid to cut the shit within hearing distance of several other people. If shit goes down, you want witnesses.

Tell your manager you want a meeting between the three of you. Get this shit on the record in a another way.

Then take it higher. (Always follow the chain of command, as it were.)

If nobody listens, look for another job. (In fact, start circulating your resume now, and if anybody higher up asks why, flatly tell them it's because of an adverse working environment. If they value you, they will take care of the problem.)

PS: I'm very sorry you're going through this, Morris. It sounds like it truly sucks.

[Skitch]

Thats awful, Morris. Agree with everything Irish said. If you follow the chain of command and the company does nothing, then fuck that company. Don't waste your time working for a shit organization that doesn't appreciate its people. I know, may be hard to look again after so much time, but no excuse for such behavior. There are better companies out there (if yours proves to be lesser). Do not accept bullshit. Life is too short.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I'd agree with Irish about three key things.

1) Assemble a list of times/incidents when he behaved inappropriately.
2) Talk to top management.
3) Update your resume.

I disagree with Irish's idea of taking him out to dinner or try speaking to him privately, though.

First off, this guy is 24 years old. He's not a child anymore. I don't care if he's a footballer or young, he's working in a business, and he should not be insulting other people's sexuality in a casual and repetitive way.

Second off, taking him aside privately, whether by taking him out to dinner or pulling him aside at work, is actually the worst possible move. Because it gives him the opportunity to beat you to the punch administratively and claim that you're harassing him.* You do not owe him any sort of confrontation or conversation for what is clearly bad behavior. Feel gross for snitching? Tough. Maybe he should feel gross for being so shitty and insensitive.

Morris, I've experienced what you're describing a few times. The sort of "soft" bullying where you're getting denigrated constantly, but never to the point of unambiguous cruelty, and it's the aggregate that's overwhelming (death by a thousand paper cuts). The longer you let it go on, the harder it is to confront, and the larger toll it takes on you psychologically, and it's already pushing you to take sick days. That's not good for you, that's not good for your company.

So, yeah, make sure you have actual examples of what he's said. Cite the time and circumstance. Even if he claims it's just your word against his, management will be more inclined to believe you. That might require you to wait a few more days and deal with his shit a little longer for crucial evidence-gathering, but after that you can go to management.**

Regarding fallout...

You said that management might actually do nothing as they've sort of silently witnessed this without acting. Well, that says to me that this company might not be all that it's cracked up to be. If they aren't going to stick up for you, an employee with seniority and better work, then what happens the next time a problem comes along? This may actually give you some vital insight into your company's integrity.

Also, the fear that things in your department might never be the same? Well, they're not the same now, 'cause this guy is fucking it up with his tween-age level bullying.

Regardless, good luck sorting it out, because you deserve better than that. You're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggone it, this guy's a taint.

*: In the USA companies I've worked at, workplace harassment policy extends to after-hours get-togethers between workers, because pressures and politics from the workplace tend to persist. That's another reason to avoid some sort of after-hours discussion. It's all admissible.

**: Does your company have dedicated HR staff?

[Irish]

First off, this guy is 24 years old. He's not a child anymore. I don't care if he's a footballer or young, he's working in a business, and he should not be insulting other people's sexuality in a casual and repetitive way.

It is always better to give people the benefit of the doubt, regardless.

It's possible that this is a big misunderstanding. Maybe the Kid is a douchebro prick, or maybe he's socially inept. It's pretty raw to sucker punch somebody when you haven't set any boundaries with them first.

My strategy allows Morris to retain his dignity and sends a message to every other employee who will gossip about this later. Morris needs to set the tone of the story, and that story can play out like "Morris snitched and sucker punched the Kid" or "Morris did everything he could and the Kid is a jerk."

The gossip part is important. If you're another employee (or manager!) outside this department, do you wanna work with the guy who snitched? Or with the guy who was "proactive", straightforward, and tried to solve his own problems?

Because after this is all over, Morris still has to work with everybody else who wasn't involved. (And if management handles it badly, he might have to spend time working with the Kid.)

Second off, taking him aside privately, whether by taking him out to dinner or pulling him aside at work, is actually the worst possible move. Because it gives him the opportunity to beat you to the punch administratively and claim that you're harassing him.

This is why Morris talks to his boss about it just before or just after he talks to the kid. So that management hears everything from him first. (Besides which, if the Kid is young and inexperienced, he won't see any of this coming.)

[Morris Schæffer]

It is always better to give people the benefit of the doubt, regardless.

It's possible that this is a big misunderstanding. Maybe the Kid is a douchebro prick, or maybe he's socially inept. It's pretty raw to sucker punch somebody when you haven't set any boundaries with them first.

My strategy allows Morris to retain his dignity and sends a message to every other employee who will gossip about this later. Morris needs to set the tone of the story, and that story can play out like "Morris snitched and sucker punched the Kid" or "Morris did everything he could and the Kid is a jerk."

The gossip part is important. If you're another employee (or manager!) outside this department, do you wanna work with the guy who snitched? Or with the guy who was "proactive", straightforward, and tried to solve his own problems?

Because after this is all over, Morris still has to work with everybody else who wasn't involved. (And if management handles it badly, he might have to spend time working with the Kid.)



This is why Morris talks to his boss about it just before or just after he talks to the kid. So that management hears everything from him first. (Besides which, if the Kid is young and inexperienced, he won't see any of this coming.)

He's 24 so not that young. He's not stupid. He's calculated and systematic in his harassment towards me. He may not realize i'm in pain, but i detect a venomous side. Like he knows.

[Dukefrukem]

Yeh this makes me angry. I can't even imagine a workplace where this kind of harassment is going on, management witnesses it, and does nothing about it.

I love my job. And if something made me uncomfortable at my workplace, that would be a serious problem for my life-as it clearly is for yours. So your reaction is apt.

The first thing I would do would talk to my manager.
If that doesn't do anything- talk to his manager. And so on until the problem is resolved.

[Morris Schæffer]

Seems action needs to be taken. I really do not want to leave the company. And top management is actually really cool and warm-hearted. It's just our dept manager who seems to adopt an "i'm sure the problem will go away if i ignore it long enough" attitude. He's a cool guy though, perhaps he's just afraid to take charge.

one thing is for certain, i do not believe for a second that i work for a shit organization.

[Winston*]

Talk to your manager.

[Russ]

Morris, does your company not have a human resources department?

Edit: Not sure how it is in Europe, but here in the states, HR is pretty standard in most all larger companies, and one of the reasons they exist is to ensure that shit like what you described doesn't occur, seeing as how it could have an impact on productivity (ie, your absence Friday). I can say definitively that the jerk would have been fired long ago if it were at my job (which is state government, and they're even more sensitive about these matters).

[Morris Schæffer]

We do have an HR dept. But it's two secretaries and that's it. So I'm not sure what power they hold when I can just as easily go one rang higher. That would be my dept. manager followed by top management at our company, followed by the real top management, actually in Germany where the seat of our company is located. Problem with our dept manager is he hangs out with the other guy during lunch and such, is somewhat the same age so i dont know if he has the resolve to act. I mean, he sure as shit hasn't so far. In the end, if I had to guess i'd say he would back me up. we get along well. On oct 30th him and me are actually travelling to Las Vegas for work, there will be ample opportunity to talk.

@Irish: I do think it is fair to tell the guy the situation, but he could take advantage of that, launching a pre-emptive strike. He's building a house so for him this is not the time one wants to lose their job. Besides, i already told him he was angering me, albeit in a quiet, feeble voice, and he didn't relent.

[Dukefrukem]

Yikes. You know things are different between US and EU when you still call them "secretaries".

[Winston*]

I wouldn't take my advice because I'm just some guy on the internet but if you have trouble confronting him in person you could potentially send him an email laying out how what he's doing is unprofessional and asking him to stop. That also has the benefit of adding in a paper trail should it ever come down to an investigation, or at least you can forward it to your boss if the harrassment continues to show you've tried to resolve it yourself.

[Ezee E]

Could you (maybe outside of work) buy him a cup of coffee during a break and tell him how you're feeling about it all, not enjoying work as a result, just like you said here, and that you truly are offended by the comments? Coffee is shorter than a full meal, and sets a slightly more serious tone than beer. You are respected at work, so he should understand that and know that your word could get him in trouble. Plus the one-on-one confession, without bringing bosses in, shows you at least tried every means before going that route, so no surprises on his end.

It takes a TON of guts to do these type of discussions, but something to consider.

[Morris Schæffer]

It does take a ton of guts, but thanks for the suggestion.

You see, our department manager isn't forced to take it to the next level so if I inform him first, he may very well have a chat with the guy beforehand, thus giving him a 2nd chance.

This is the course of action I'm leaning towards. When this shit happens again, possibly when he's in our cubicle for another joint project, I will (covertly) inform my dept. manager immediately so he knows exactly what I'm talking about.

That would mean I'm playing the waiting game, postponing the inevitable because I'm too afraid to act immediately.

This is difficult. I'll try to do the right thing.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Again, I respect that other people have alternative points of view on this, but every single harassment seminar and HR meeting I've been to over the years has emphasized the following: if you are being harassed, do not confront your harasser, go to HR. For exactly the reasons I've outlined. The argument that this will make Morris a snitch who's side-eyed by all his co-workers feels irrelevant at best (Morris is an employee in good standing who's worked there for quite some time, so his co-workers would give him the benefit of the doubt) and destructive at worst, since it's exactly that sort of mafia-style binary that allows so much workplace harassment and intimidation to go unreported (because the harassed don't want to be "disruptive").

[Russ]

I second this, absolutely. Even if HR is "just a couple of secretaries", you are going to want to lodge an official harassment complaint with them. Believe me, you want to have this documented and part of an official record. Because, if the the issue escalates and your manager does nothing about it, your company would be liable and fully accountable. That's why HR is there, Morris. For your protection and the company's.

[bac0n]

Gang I'm 100% with DAMU on this one. You do not owe your harasser a goddamn penny. Go to your manager. He needs to get this fuckburger to stop, or get him out of there. That is his fucking JOB. If he doesn't deal with it, then he is being complicit in the harassment, and his manager needs to deal with it. Collect your evidence, build your case, present it to your manager. If your manager is not a shit person, he/she will take it from there.


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[amberlita]

Sorry to hear this; sounds maddening.

Just want to encourage you to take a light hand with this. It's an infuriating situation and this kid deserves to be reprimanded or even fired. Thus it's tempting to just barrel into your supervisor and indignantly declare they do something. No you don't owe this kid anything, but your goal really is to relieve your own suffering and attempting to strong-arm the situation may make things worse rather than better. Sometimes it takes some politicking and maneuvering and anticipating possible outcomes three moves in advance. I had an older male supervisor who I felt was being somewhat misogynistic to me because I am young woman. I won't go in depth with this, but I'm a confrontational person and so I took a fairly aggressive approach with it and ultimately regretted it. Had to continue working there for 2 more years, directly with this man, and in hindsight a delicate touch would have saved myself a lot more trouble while still accomplishing my goal of not taking his shit. So I'd support Irish's tact, even if the specifics vary on your actual approach. You don't have to do him any favors, but sometimes doing the opposite of what this guy deserves (a kick in the teeth) will do yourself a lot of favors.

Good luck and I hope things get better. Perhaps you can find another individual at work to help vouch for you in this situation, and avoid fighting this battle on your own.

[Ezee E]

Sorry to hear this; sounds maddening.

Just want to encourage you to take a light hand with this. It's an infuriating situation and this kid deserves to be reprimanded or even fired. Thus it's tempting to just barrel into your supervisor and indignantly declare they do something. No you don't owe this kid anything, but your goal really is to relieve your own suffering and attempting to strong-arm the situation may make things worse rather than better. Sometimes it takes some politicking and maneuvering and anticipating possible outcomes three moves in advance. I had an older male supervisor who I felt was being somewhat misogynistic to me because I am young woman. I won't go in depth with this, but I'm a confrontational person and so I took a fairly aggressive approach with it and ultimately regretted it. Had to continue working there for 2 more years, directly with this man, and in hindsight a delicate touch would have saved myself a lot more trouble while still accomplishing my goal of not taking his shit. So I'd support Irish's tact, even if the specifics vary on your actual approach. You don't have to do him any favors, but sometimes doing the opposite of what this guy deserves (a kick in the teeth) will do yourself a lot of favors.

Good luck and I hope things get better. Perhaps you can find another individual at work to help vouch for you in this situation, and avoid fighting this battle on your own.

Good point here. What do the other coworkers think in the cubicles? From what I experience, HR/Secretaries could open up an investigation (just interviews) with the other coworkers to determine a final outcome. This is why I suggest taking it one-on-one first.

[Winston*]

Only reading betwen the lines from your account, I think you may be overestimating this idiot's Machiavellian capabilities. I bet this dude would crumble under the slightest pressure from above.

[Morris Schæffer]

Only reading betwen the lines from your account, I think you may be overestimating this idiot's Machiavellian capabilities. I bet this dude would crumble under the slightest pressure from above.

I think he would have no other choice. Question is, would he secretly detest me afterwards and disrupt flow at the department?

Anyway, today he's not getting on my nerves too much, let's see how the afternoon progresses.

[Morris Schæffer]

An update. The other guy I'm carpooling with, also a colleague and a good friend of the dude I described above, was tagging me on Facebook with the precision of a swiss watch, meaning precisely once a week. 4 times now, always him and always directed at myself. His penultimate tag was "tag a friend who likes dicks". I didn't read his last tag because I don't want to know. And at work or during the drive to work he sometimes harasses me as well. Always with a smile, always subtle so that I alone can hear it. Except for the Facebook tags which other colleagues, including my Manager see also. My manager and another colleague finally said something to me a week ago, namely that there's a line being crossed.

I just got back from Vegas with my Manager, it was work-related and it is actually that time of the year where we have to evaluate our colleagues, report what's good and what's not so good. So we did that in the plane and when I started to talk about arsehole 1 and 2, my voice starts shaking a little bit, gets emotional. The Manager gets it 100%, and will speak to both next week.

Unburdening myself felt great, at least it is out in the open now.

Cheers fellas!

[Dukefrukem]

Good. Let's see where this goes.

[Irish]

Glad it's working out for you, Morris!