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Thread: Westworld (Season 1)

  1. #51
    Episode 2 is out? Alright, Irish. I'm getting into my stance — come at me.

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  2. #52
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    I'll just wait until Sunday. I don't want to have to wait 10 days for episode 3!

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  3. #53
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    I'll just wait until Sunday. I don't want to have to wait 10 days for episode 3!
    I watched.

    I'll wait until tomorrow to share my thoughts.

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  4. #54
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Watched 'em both in back to back days.

    Very, very good. The world-building is beautifully hazy and dreamy, both in its visuals and ideas. The cast is stellar, even if I'll admittedly be calling them by the real names of their actors for a little while (which is a luxury of such a largely well-known cast). And most importantly, it doesn't quite feel like anything that's ever been done. The comparisons you guys have given it to Lost, Cabin in the Woods, and various HBO series of the past are apt to my instant love of it, as those are a few of my favourite things.

    All in all, it actually managed to be worth the 3+ year wait. So if it really took them all this time to arrive at these sort of episodes (I mean, the pilot, or its original incarnation, was shot in 2014), then I'm really glad they didn't rush it.
    BlacKkKlansman (Lee, 2018) – **** / 9.1
    Murder On The Orient Express (Branagh, 2017) – ***½ / 8.3
    Mission: Impossible – Fallout (McQuarrie, 2018) – ***½ / 8.8
    Blindspotting (Estrada, 2018) – ***½ / 8.4
    Leave No Trace (Granik, 2018) – ***½ / 8.6
    Eighth Grade (Burnham, 2018) – ***½ / 8.5
    Sorry To Bother You (Riley, 2018) – **** / 9.2
    Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (Bayona, 2018) – **½ / 5.9
    2001: A Space Odyssey [in 70mm] (Kubrick, 1968) – **** / 10

  5. #55
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Damn, just looking at the upcoming writers and directors for this season is like a modern drama's Fantasy Team:

    Ed Brubaker
    Michelle MacLaren
    Neil Marshall
    Dominic Mitchell
    Vincenzo Natali
    Frederick E.O. Toye

    ..and half the episodes' talent aren't even announced yet!
    BlacKkKlansman (Lee, 2018) – **** / 9.1
    Murder On The Orient Express (Branagh, 2017) – ***½ / 8.3
    Mission: Impossible – Fallout (McQuarrie, 2018) – ***½ / 8.8
    Blindspotting (Estrada, 2018) – ***½ / 8.4
    Leave No Trace (Granik, 2018) – ***½ / 8.6
    Eighth Grade (Burnham, 2018) – ***½ / 8.5
    Sorry To Bother You (Riley, 2018) – **** / 9.2
    Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (Bayona, 2018) – **½ / 5.9
    2001: A Space Odyssey [in 70mm] (Kubrick, 1968) – **** / 10

  6. #56
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    MacLaren and Neil Marshall are pretty cool to see.

    Jonathan Nolan directing the final episode.

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    The Sisters Brothers - *** 1/2
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  7. #57
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    Jonathan Nolan directing the final episode.
    I actually thought he did a really good job with the first one. He definitely stayed in the lane of the sort of tone, shot selections and editing rhythms that his brother has grown firmly into over the years, but the sweeping western vistas mixed with the steely, creepy sci-fi side of things ‒and the independent colour palettes and textures he brought to both ‒ was an elating hybrid that is fully his own, even compared to most television out there. It might be a writer's medium, but as a first-time director, he crafted a very unique template for the series.
    BlacKkKlansman (Lee, 2018) – **** / 9.1
    Murder On The Orient Express (Branagh, 2017) – ***½ / 8.3
    Mission: Impossible – Fallout (McQuarrie, 2018) – ***½ / 8.8
    Blindspotting (Estrada, 2018) – ***½ / 8.4
    Leave No Trace (Granik, 2018) – ***½ / 8.6
    Eighth Grade (Burnham, 2018) – ***½ / 8.5
    Sorry To Bother You (Riley, 2018) – **** / 9.2
    Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (Bayona, 2018) – **½ / 5.9
    2001: A Space Odyssey [in 70mm] (Kubrick, 1968) – **** / 10

  8. #58
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    So we asked about some theme park specifics, and we were given that and then some more. I'm really liking how almost any scene could be analyzed and dissected. The fitting room scene being one that specifically stands out to me, as it almost seems like it's one big test of the visitor, more than anything. I really like how he goes through the door and somehow is on a moving train.

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  9. #59
    - - - - - Irish's Avatar
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    Gonna wait one more episode (1/3 first season) before calling it ...

    ... in the meantime, surprised this episode (1) repeated so much information from the pilot and (2) more or less ditched Dolores

  10. #60
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    Gonna wait one more episode (1/3 first season) before calling it ...

    ... in the meantime, surprised this episode (1) repeated so much information from the pilot and (2) more or less ditched Dolores
    How you mean? Many HBO shows usually don't focus on some of their main characters for a couple episodes?

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  11. #61
    - - - - - Irish's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    How you mean? Many HBO shows usually don't focus on some of their main characters for a couple episodes?
    After nearly 2 hours of screen time, the show doesn't have a recognizable protagonist.

    Even on other HBO shows with ensemble casts and multiple storylines, one character serves as narrative focus: Tony Soprano, Carrie Bradshaw, Jimmy McNulty, Sookie Stackhouse, etc.

    But on Westworld, it's not clear who that person is, or even might be. Last week, they set up Dolores to assume that role. This week, she was barely in the episode.
    Last edited by Irish; 10-10-2016 at 07:43 AM.

  12. #62
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    After nearly 2 hours of screen time, the show doesn't have a recognizable protagonist.

    Even on other HBO shows with ensemble casts and multiple storylines, one character serves as narrative focus: Tony Soprano, Carrie Bradshaw, Jimmy McNulty, Sookie Stackhouse, etc.

    But on Westworld, it's not clear who that person is, or even might be. Last week, they set up Dolores to assume that role. This week, she was barely in the episode.
    Who would Game of Thrones' protagonist be?

    And McNulty was definitely missing from several episodes too. Can't recall for the first season though.

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  13. #63
    - - - - - Irish's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    Who would Game of Thrones' protagonist be?
    For the first season, it was Ned. Afterwards, obviously, different characters filled that role for different amounts of time.

    And McNulty was definitely missing from several episodes too. Can't recall for the first season though.
    The character doesn't have to be in every episode. They're just the narrative focus, the person the audience is meant to identify with. Usually, they'll be involved in major storylines and most of the other characters will connect through them. (Eg: Ross on Friends, or Jerry on Seinfeld.)

    The only mainstream show I could think of that didn't do this was Simon's thing about New Orleans post-Katrina. That was really diffuse, with no one character or storyline seemingly more important than any other.

    With Westworld, they set up Evan Rachel Wood in the pilot, ditched her in the second episode, then introduced 2 more major characters and gave Jeffrey Wright a subplot. And nobody really connects to anyone else--there's no character bridge between the lab and the park, for instance. So I dunno what's going on there.

  14. #64
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Yeah, I thought it felt like a very deliberate choice to make Dolores, her father, and.. (here I just revert to the actors' names) Marsden's character the main focuses of the first episode, and then flip things more heavily towards the opposite side of things this week with their antagonist Ed Harris, a guest with Jimmi Simpson, and a different host storyline with Thandie Newton, along with Jeffrey Wright and Hopkins behind the scenes.

    Things will obviously revolve and coalesce over time.

    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    The character doesn't have to be in every episode. They're just the narrative focus, the person the audience is meant to identify with. Usually, they'll be involved in major storylines and most of the other characters will connect through them. (Eg: Ross on Friends, or Jerry on Seinfeld.)
    This is the very first time I have ever considered Ross to be the central character of Friends and I'm not really sure how.
    BlacKkKlansman (Lee, 2018) – **** / 9.1
    Murder On The Orient Express (Branagh, 2017) – ***½ / 8.3
    Mission: Impossible – Fallout (McQuarrie, 2018) – ***½ / 8.8
    Blindspotting (Estrada, 2018) – ***½ / 8.4
    Leave No Trace (Granik, 2018) – ***½ / 8.6
    Eighth Grade (Burnham, 2018) – ***½ / 8.5
    Sorry To Bother You (Riley, 2018) – **** / 9.2
    Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (Bayona, 2018) – **½ / 5.9
    2001: A Space Odyssey [in 70mm] (Kubrick, 1968) – **** / 10

  15. #65
    Piss off, ghost! number8's Avatar
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    Clue: The finale is centered around him trying to get Rachel back (and importantly, not the other way around).
    Quote Quoting Donald Glover
    I was actually just reading about Matt Damon and he’s like, ‘There’s a culture of outrage.’ I’m like, ‘Well, they have a reason to be outraged.’ I think it’s a lot of dudes just being scared. They’re like, ‘What if I did something and I didn’t realize it?’ I’m like, ‘Deal with it.’
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  16. #66
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting number8 (view post)
    Clue: The finale is centered around him trying to get Rachel back (and importantly, not the other way around).
    Not to mention the group basically exists because he's Monica's brother and Chandler's best friend, and Joey and Phoebe are only in their lives because they're roommates.

    I feel like this is just something that's throwing me the way it is because it's a show that's simply been around for almost my whole life, and I never looked at it as anything other than an ensemble where the cast is listed alphabetically and gets just about equal screen-time.
    BlacKkKlansman (Lee, 2018) – **** / 9.1
    Murder On The Orient Express (Branagh, 2017) – ***½ / 8.3
    Mission: Impossible – Fallout (McQuarrie, 2018) – ***½ / 8.8
    Blindspotting (Estrada, 2018) – ***½ / 8.4
    Leave No Trace (Granik, 2018) – ***½ / 8.6
    Eighth Grade (Burnham, 2018) – ***½ / 8.5
    Sorry To Bother You (Riley, 2018) – **** / 9.2
    Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (Bayona, 2018) – **½ / 5.9
    2001: A Space Odyssey [in 70mm] (Kubrick, 1968) – **** / 10

  17. #67
    - - - - - Irish's Avatar
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    Friends also starts with Ross. The first episode is about his divorce and his crush on Rachel.

  18. #68
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Well, the show DOES start and end with Dolores, with the final scene really being the key moment with the recurring themes of the hosts being defenseless, destroyed at will, and even experiencing some sort of nightmare as a result of everything.

    Heck, Dolores has a big scene with Jeffrey Wright in the middle of it.

    So she's not even ditched at all.

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  19. #69
    - - - - - Irish's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    Well, the show DOES start and end with Dolores, with the final scene really being the key moment with the recurring themes of the hosts being defenseless, destroyed at will, and even experiencing some sort of nightmare as a result of everything.

    Heck, Dolores has a big scene with Jeffrey Wright in the middle of it.

    So she's not even ditched at all.
    Huh? The second episode ends with Hopkins and Wright in the desert.

    Wood only has one dialogue scene during the entire hour, and it's an exchange that repeats material from the pilot. The focus she had switches to Newton in the second episode.

  20. #70
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Her words to Newton sets off her whole story, and her final scene is basically the cliffhanger, whether or not it's the final scene of the show.

    The purpose of a protagonist doesn't really interest me anyway, so I'll move on to something else in this thread.

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  21. #71
    - - - - - Irish's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    The purpose of a protagonist doesn't really interest me anyway, so I'll move on to something else in this thread.
    I was only trying to answer the questions you asked...

    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    Well, the show DOES start and end with Dolores...
    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    ...her final scene is basically the cliffhanger, whether or not it's the final scene of the show.
    ... because sometimes it's difficult to understand you.

  22. #72
    I would argue that discussing whether someone is a recognizable protagonist or not is less important than explaining (a) why you think it matters that a show have a recognizable main protagonist and (b) why it is important that a show be more like Friends.
    Last 10 Movies Seen

    You Were Never Really Here
    (2018) 74
    A Quiet Place
    (2018) 65
    The Little Mermaid (1989) 59
    /The Lion King (1994) 55
    The Sheriff in Town
    (2017) 42
    /Pacific Heights (1990) 62

    Ready Player One
    (2018) 53

    /Deadpool
    (2016) 67
    Along with the Gods: The Two Worlds (2017) 61
    The Death of Stalin (2017) 67

    Stuff at Letterboxd


  23. #73
    - - - - - Irish's Avatar
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    (a) because every story has a protagonist, especially in a medium that's as mainstream as television

    (b) this so obviously wasn't the argument I was making that I can't really respond to it

  24. #74
    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    (a) because every story has a protagonist, especially in a medium that's as mainstream as television

    (b) this so obviously wasn't the argument I was making that I can't really respond to it
    (a) Doesn't mean that every story needs a main protagonist. My second favorite movie of all time, Short Cuts, has no main protagonist, and it does just fine. Sure, argue how this particular show (Westworld) needs a main protagonist for the way it is set up, and that makes sense (I haven't seen it, so have no opinion on that). But just to say "Every other show has one, so this needs one too" is a weak argument.

    (b) Ross was the worst character on Friends, by a distance. The best seasons of the The Wire (3 and 4) coincided with McNulty being sidelined from the main narrative, and the weakest (5) with McNulty being forced back into main role doing the same shit he was doing in Season 1 and 2. So I'm not sure how asking for Westworld to have a main protagonist and then using these examples helps your case.
    Last 10 Movies Seen

    You Were Never Really Here
    (2018) 74
    A Quiet Place
    (2018) 65
    The Little Mermaid (1989) 59
    /The Lion King (1994) 55
    The Sheriff in Town
    (2017) 42
    /Pacific Heights (1990) 62

    Ready Player One
    (2018) 53

    /Deadpool
    (2016) 67
    Along with the Gods: The Two Worlds (2017) 61
    The Death of Stalin (2017) 67

    Stuff at Letterboxd


  25. #75
    - - - - - Irish's Avatar
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    (a) "I haven't seen it, so have no opinion on that" --- lol, good try tho

    (b) still not having anything to do with the argument I was making

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