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Thread: Suicide Squad (David Ayer)

  1. #1
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Suicide Squad (David Ayer)

    Last 11 things I really enjoyed:

    Speed Racer (Wachowski/Wachowski, 2008)
    Safe (Haynes, 1995)
    South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut (Parker, 1999)
    Beastie Boys Story (Jonze, 2020)
    Bad Trip (Sakurai, 2020)
    What's Up Doc? (Bogdanovich, 1972)
    Diva (Beineix, 1981)
    Delicatessen (Caro/Jeunet, 1991)
    The Hunger (Scott, 1983)
    Pineapple Express (Green, 2008)
    Chungking Express (Wong, 1994)

  2. #2
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    I feel like I should just go bullet-point with this since the movie's storytelling is essentially done in the same way:

    - The first 20 minutes are just exhausting. That Hollywood Reporter article that 8 linked to earlier today about the trailer editors being brought in to make a peppier, more fast-paced version of the movie is realized in the most unnatural, choppily paced introduction to a movie imaginable. It's like you're watching a 20-minute trailer or a featurette promoting the movie, all set to fairly unremarkable, intrusive music choices, all just rampaging through visual information and character backstories with a relentless, muddled glaze. Even when it somewhat shakes off that initial style, much of the movie continues to operate as if it's in montage mode, and not in a way like Nolan or Malick would carefully construct as a fluid part of its editing and scripting to give added backstory weave into the momentum of thing or layer some dreamy emotion to larger sequences, here it just feels like you're seeing abbreviated versions of scenes without characters introducing or segueing out of them. The introduction of Delevingne's character is like watching the opening scene of Raiders of the Lost Ark cut down to 45 seconds because any suspense would be distracting from getting to that first scene with Jones at his teaching job.

    - Leto is terrible. Luckily, as many of us predicted for a while, he's only in the movie for maybe 15-20 minutes total so he's only an annoying hindrance here and there, but his performance is like someone doing an impression of Jim Carrey as Riddler but then dressed up as the wrong character. The movie also seems to have very little idea what to actually do with him. One completely superfluous flashback sequence (that comes out of nowhere) involving him and Harley and chemical baths is one of the most compelling, striking things in the movie. It also makes very little sense and adds next to nothing to the movie at large.

    - The DC cameos are kinda cool, even if I kinda just remembered they happened. There's also a mid-credits scene that's totally pointless, but I guess attempting to somewhat retcon the idea that Luthor essentially created the Justice League lineup.

    - There is good stuff here! Some gorgeous visuals and haunting moments, but they're just buried and chopped up -- Hey! A flashback! -- that you don't really get a chance to -- Another flashback! -- feel any emotional connection to it one way or another.

    - Lots of women getting hit-related material, and a good majority of it being played for laughs. The sad thing it doesn't particularly stand out as being more tasteless than anything else in it. Moving on!

    - Ike Barinholtz gets some genuine laughs. His character is very prominent in the first third and then completely disappears.

    - Adam Beach is the most wasted character and actor of any anybody in anything ever.

    - I'm not sure I've seen action scenes so completely made up of medium shots and close-ups than most of the ones here. It's so frustrating in terms of basic staging and visual spacial sense of sequences to just know where everyone is at any point.

    - A half-joking thing I've said in recent years a lot about movies that were shot on 35mm but otherwise no-so-good is "Hey, at least it was shot on film!", but even then there's something especially underlit and dull about the imagery here, and I'm not sure it was really the projection since some of the more colourful sequences sang. It's really a shame since so much of it does take place in those sort of dingy, smokey nighttime situations.

    - It was kinda fun to see this in the theatre above where one of the big scenes was filmed last year, as well as walking past a lot of the noticeable locations on the way home. I do realize no one else will have this very specific experience of extended enjoyment with it outside of Toronto.

    The way I instantly described it after my friend asked me what I thought after it finished was that it was like putting a million ingredients into a stew and it tasting like nothing at all in the end. There's a whole lot of movie and movie-like things going on here, but none of it coalesces into a whole one. It's all instrumentation and no rhythm to carry it. It goes ridiculously fast through stuff that seems interesting but we're given no time to settle into it, and then slows down to give us more routine, bland stuff. I really do want to see that other cut, just to know there was an actually distinct stylistic voice behind all of this at some point.

    I just really need Wonder Woman to be good at this point, guys.

    ** / 4.something
    Last 11 things I really enjoyed:

    Speed Racer (Wachowski/Wachowski, 2008)
    Safe (Haynes, 1995)
    South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut (Parker, 1999)
    Beastie Boys Story (Jonze, 2020)
    Bad Trip (Sakurai, 2020)
    What's Up Doc? (Bogdanovich, 1972)
    Diva (Beineix, 1981)
    Delicatessen (Caro/Jeunet, 1991)
    The Hunger (Scott, 1983)
    Pineapple Express (Green, 2008)
    Chungking Express (Wong, 1994)

  3. #3
    Very helpful points, thanks for the review. And not terribly surprising. Despite extremely well-constructed trailers that peaked my interest, the presence of SO many unestablished characters thrown into a new film together has always worried me about a potential lack of focus. Should have seen the signs in the trailers, which never gave a hint at story but seemed to just want to get the audience hyped for seeing these characters posturing on screen together.

  4. #4

    Suicide Squad (David Ayer)

    Terrible, terrible, terrible. The worst movie I've seen in the theaters in a long time. More to come....
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  5. #5
    White Tiger Field Stay Puft's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Henry Gale (view post)
    - It was kinda fun to see this in the theatre above where one of the big scenes was filmed last year, as well as walking past a lot of the noticeable locations on the way home. I do realize no one else will have this very specific experience of extended enjoyment with it outside of Toronto.
    Haha, that's kinda why I want to see it. One of the action scenes was filmed just around the corner from where I live (it involved a helicopter crash, which may or may not be specific enough to narrow down; I'll have to see the movie for myself to recognize it).
    Giving up in 2020. Who cares.

    Night on Earth (Jim Jarmusch) ***
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    Exhalation (Edmund Yeo) *
    Inhalation (Edmund Yeo) *½

  6. #6
    You have a problem when your titular group members do not exchange a single word with each other until almost an hour in. The storytelling is simply atrocious, with flat character introductions served up at a generic dinner table, scenes seemingly out of order, a boring, completely undefined villain that can apparently skip continents in the blink of an eye but who then decide to fight the protagonists hand to hand, a villain with a generic bright swirly "weapon" that conveniently (but for no apparent reason) needs time to set up before it unleashes its random destruction, characters, faceless hordes that aren't explained until after they have been attacking our heroes, so we have absolutely zero context regarding whether they matter... all smothered in jokes that never land, propelling characters that never make sense into scenes that are poorly shot and choreographed....and the hambone musical cues! And the pointlessness of the Joker! Good God this is a shitty, monumentally bad movie front to back. Literally nothing works.
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    El
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    The Day After
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    Duck, You Sucker (1971) 68
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    Noriko’s Dinner Party
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    The Third Murder (2017) 56

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  7. #7
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    I can't wait to see this tonight!

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  8. #8
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    WB panicked after Batman v Superman

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hea...-rushed-916693

    Edit: whoops, 8 posted this in the generic thread
    Last edited by Dukefrukem; 08-04-2016 at 03:14 PM.

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  9. #9
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    The best moment of it all might've been unexpectedly getting a teaser for Dunkirk.

    It was short though.
    Last 11 things I really enjoyed:

    Speed Racer (Wachowski/Wachowski, 2008)
    Safe (Haynes, 1995)
    South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut (Parker, 1999)
    Beastie Boys Story (Jonze, 2020)
    Bad Trip (Sakurai, 2020)
    What's Up Doc? (Bogdanovich, 1972)
    Diva (Beineix, 1981)
    Delicatessen (Caro/Jeunet, 1991)
    The Hunger (Scott, 1983)
    Pineapple Express (Green, 2008)
    Chungking Express (Wong, 1994)

  10. #10
    Moderator TGM's Avatar
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    I pretty much agree with every point brought up in this thread. And, unlike with BvS, I really can't say that I liked it regardless. :\
    Last edited by TGM; 08-05-2016 at 12:28 AM.

  11. #11
    Moderator TGM's Avatar
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    Some more expanded thoughts that stood out to me personally while watching, and yes, I'll be hitting a handful of points already brought up, but...

    (heavy spoilers ahead)

    - The opening introductions to our main cast is among the laziest openings to any movie that I can recall in recent memory. Seriously, we've seen that large casts can be well balanced out, and even including among them brand new characters at that. But this, I can't even think off the top of my head a lazier way for them to have accomplished this. Holy shit...

    - All throughout, I found myself questioning the characters actions, but especially so as the movie went on. For instance, Harley manages to get away. But then she thinks the Joker dies, so... she goes back with the squad? What? And she knows that that means returning to prison as well, she knows this. So, what the fuck? And again, with Jai Courtney later on, he gets away, too, he's free. But then he, too, for no real reason, just decides to go back as well? (And hell, in his instance, it also cops out on the one single joke in the whole movie that was actually kinda funny at that.) And the cast getting more and more sentimental the more and more they became, er, "good" near the end, I'm sorry, but no matter the situation they were in, I just didn't buy a lick of that, not from most of them at least.

    - The editing choices in this thing. Hoo boy. Some standouts to me, early on, as Viola Davis is narrating the introduction to Harley Quinn, they literally have her say the words "she's crazier and less afraid than the Joker", as the Joker crazily drives their car into the water and Harley starts flipping her shit in fear while the Joker's just sitting there laughing. How the fuck do you even make that kind of blatant mistake?

    (And speaking of that scene, did I misinterpret it, or did Batman seriously try to make out with Harley after pulling her out of the water? What the fuck was up with that?)

    And then later on, they've got this guy sitting in a chair in a backroom of a club, and the Joker enters the room, places his hand on the guy's shoulder, and starts to speak. We know it's the Joker, but the focus should've been on the guy's reaction to realizing that he was in trouble with the Joker. Instead, we cut up to the Joker talking to him, skipping over that reaction, as if we just needed to see the Joker speak those lines in this instance. I know, this one's nit-picky, but it's one that stood out as yet another obvious example of how the people who edited this thing together clearly had no clue what they were doing, nor had any idea how best to execute a scene to get the fullest potential out of it.

    - Speaking of the Joker, I thought Jared Leto was okay from what we saw of him, which was very little (though it's interesting to hear that there was apparently a lot that they cut out of the movie), and I'd like to see more of him before really judging him one way or another. As for Margot Robbie as Harley, I thought she was hit or miss throughout. At some points, she totally nails the character. At others, it feels like I'm watching a cosplayer at a convention doing their best Harley Quinn impression.

    - The music in this thing, what the fuck? Clearly they were going for a Guardians vibe, without actually having any sort of understanding as to why the music in Guardians actually worked. The music there is an actual integral part of the movie itself, something that directly interacts with the characters, and as such, more directly connects us to them as well. Here, it's just whatever they felt best accompanied the scene, except they oftentimes don't even get that right, as I found the music oftentimes distracting throughout, with the Eminem song probably being the worst offender of the bunch.

    - That ending battle felt like something from the early 2000s era of superhero movies. It would feel right at home in something like Ghost Rider or one of the Fantastic Four movies. But here, jeez, this movie just came out and it already feels outdated.

    - The movie in general is also just shockingly bland and lifeless, and the action scenes are entirely boring, so I can't even say that it was a fun sort of bad movie.

    - What's most frustrating is that, there are moments that do work. Diablo's flashback scene in the bar works. Some of the Harley and Joker scenes work. But there's nothing substantial surrounding those scenes that makes them really resonate in the ways that the movie was clearly intending for them to, because from an editing standpoint to a writing and character standpoint, the vast majority of this movie flat out doesn't work.

    And the real kicker that let's you know this movie was a fucking stinker? My audience actually applauded it afterwards. And if there's one thing I've learned over the years, the audiences in my town only applaud after the absolute worst fucking movies, ie, The Dark Knight Rises, Transformers 3, The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies, Pixels, and now, added to the list, Suicide Squad.

    So yeah, not a good movie.
    Last edited by TGM; 08-05-2016 at 01:59 AM.

  12. #12
    The primary guiding ethos behind the editing seemed to be, "Whenever you don't know what else to do, cut to a Harley Quinn bon mot." Unfortunately, none of them are funny.

    The use of Slipknot was mindbogglingly bad. A clear chance to really raise the stakes for the squad, and instead we get....that? The only character who doesn't get an introduction, who just turns up randomly at the first scrimmage ("Oh, by the way, this random dude is also part of the team."), and we are supposed to care why? Really, really, really poor.

    The only way this movie could have been saved would have been to throw out every single thing and start from the blank page of a new screenplay. Start with a villain that actually specifically targets the squad of whom the squad actually has a genuine antipathy for, thus drawing them together organically and having them overcome the resistance to the program by actually making their first mission be something personal (maybe... maybe even have the squad start with a small mission, it goes shit, they are betrayed by someone in the team, and they become the big boss....) instead of just having them randomly bond over absolutely nothing and decide to follow the banal, vanilla, pointless Rick Flag character and his absolutely uninteresting love story.... Jesus. Makes me cringe just thinking about it. Who signed off on this shit?

    And that's not even mentioning the fact that [
    ]
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  13. #13
    Moderator TGM's Avatar
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    I'll give the movie this: Will Smith was absolutely perfect playing the role of Will Smith, though.

  14. #14
    ............... Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I'll give the movie this: Will Smith was absolutely perfect playing the role of Will Smith, though.
    HA! He rarely does much else.

  15. #15
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    I dont even know what the villain was trying to do. A spell to do what exactly? Turn everyone into rocks?

    And if we are going to complain about them shoehorning in Slipknot, we have to complain about them shoehorning in Katana. She literally jumps on the helicopter as they are about to take off and Flagg is like: "Oh btw, this chick is coming too".

    My biggest disappointment with the movie was Leto. Didn't feel like he wanted to be there outside of the "oh im not gonna kill ya... I'm just gonna hurt ya" scene. Seriously, that was the only line he had that made his character have energy.

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  16. #16
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    I dont even know what the villain was trying to do. A spell to do what exactly? Turn everyone into rocks?

    And if we are going to complain about them shoehorning in Slipknot, we have to complain about them shoehorning in Katana. She literally jumps on the helicopter as they are about to take off and Flagg is like: "Oh btw, this chick is coming too".

    My biggest disappointment with the movie was Leto. Didn't feel like he wanted to be there outside of the "oh im not gonna kill ya... I'm just gonna hurt ya" scene. Seriously, that was the only line he had that made his character have energy.
    He was too focused on off-screen antics!

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  17. #17
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)

    - The music in this thing, what the fuck? Clearly they were going for a Guardians vibe, without actually having any sort of understanding as to why the music in Guardians actually worked. The music there is an actual integral part of the movie itself, something that directly interacts with the characters, and as such, more directly connects us to them as well. Here, it's just whatever they felt best accompanied the scene, except they oftentimes don't even get that right, as I found the music oftentimes distracting throughout, with the Eminem song probably being the worst offender of the bunch.

    -
    Oh yeh, i forgot about this. How many songs played during this movie? 37? Every scene was a new song introduction. So odd.

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  18. #18
    Super Moderator dreamdead's Avatar
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    Woof. This film feels so clearly stitched together, undergoing an autopsy throughout the editing process that reshifts characters spatial relationships at a whim and abandons other characters throughout.

    The final battle should have resonance, but it basically becomes El Diablo against CGI monster; it might make sense for Harley, Deadshot, and other normals to stand aside for that duration, but Kitana is utterly abandoned even though it seems as though her sword is able to inflict some damage to the monster. Consequently, I'm left wondering whether she put up more of a fight in some earlier edited iteration, or if Ayer was so obtuse that he forgot that an earlier scene establishes some modicum of success for Kitana as a fighter in that situation.

    Character psychology is also idiotic throughout, where loyalties change solely for a punchline (Kroc's "I like her" re: Waller) or to accommodate a dramatic beat.
    It's a shame that Margot Robbie is generally very good in this role and that she still has so little to work with beyond rote one-liners to transition us to the next sequence and music cue.

    Suicide Squad ultimately feels like Snyder's Sucker Punch, where I can envision a more interestingly edited and written film, but then I remember that I'm considering these details a day later and question life decisions.
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  19. #19
    Moderator TGM's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting dreamdead (view post)
    Suicide Squad ultimately feels like Snyder's Sucker Punch, where I can envision a more interestingly edited and written film, but then I remember that I'm considering these details a day later and question life decisions.
    Oh, no no no. No. When I had heard about how this thing was cut together, how it was edited by a team who typically puts together movie trailers, and that a lot of it supposedly had a "music video" feel, I was very much hoping for it to have a faux-Sucker Punch feel. But no, that movie has a beauty, a brilliance, and an elegance (yes, these are all words I'm using to describe Sucker Punch!) that this movie is completely lacking.

    Sucker Punch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suicide Squad, and that's me being kind to Suicide Squad.

  20. #20
    unattainable Zac Efron's Avatar
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    Epic fail. All the Razzies for this one.

  21. #21
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    $60 million on Friday.

    So yeah.

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  22. #22
    the maker of my own evil Ivan Drago's Avatar
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    More thoughts will come later, but I feel like I just watched an adaptation of terrible fanfiction from a 14-year-old that got tired of writing it by the end.
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  23. #23
    Piss off, ghost! number8's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    $60 million on Friday.

    So yeah.
    Thanks, embargo.
    Quote Quoting Donald Glover
    I was actually just reading about Matt Damon and he’s like, ‘There’s a culture of outrage.’ I’m like, ‘Well, they have a reason to be outraged.’ I think it’s a lot of dudes just being scared. They’re like, ‘What if I did something and I didn’t realize it?’ I’m like, ‘Deal with it.’
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  24. #24
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting number8 (view post)
    Thanks, embargo.
    Pretty much.

    Aiming for $130 making it biggest August weekend opening ever behind Guardians.

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  25. #25
    the maker of my own evil Ivan Drago's Avatar
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    As promised....

    Nothing is more disappointing than being promised something exciting and then getting something so drastically different, you can’t help but feel let down. By the end of Suicide Squad, that’s exactly how I felt. The stellar marketing campaign advertises this film adaptation of the ragtag team of anti-heroes that make up Task Force X as an energetic, action-packed free-for-all with edgy, character-centric banter between villains from the DC Comics underworld. The film’s director, David Ayer, even said in an interview that his goal was to ‘create a family’ with his ensemble cast of characters.

    Unfortunately, the end result of reshoots and studio interference that hindered Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice comes into play here, because the majority of the Squad is given nothing to do besides stand around, snarl and fight, has no personality save for Harley, El Diablo, Deadshot, and Rick Flag, and there’s barely any camaraderie or relationships developed between them, save for the surface-level attempt between Deadshot and Rick Flag. Even The Joker doesn’t play a single factor in the story, and his adaptation here as a modern-day mob boss is one of the most inspired parts of the movie, so The Clown Prince of Crime’s presence here is ultimately pointless and wasted.

    After each member of the Squad is introduced in a quick but expository graphics-filled montage, the film grows more boring and devoid of excitement as it goes on with slow-paced action sequences, forced attempts at snark that fall flat, and off-putting music choices that feel juvenile and stick out like a sore thumb, if only because the scenes in which they’re used don’t match the music’s energy. The use of “Without Me” by Eminem during the scene where the Squad gets their weapons is the most prominent example for me.

    As frustrating as it all is, Suicide Squad is not without its pros. As mentioned earlier, The Joker in this universe is a modern-day mob boss, which is inspired and interesting. Margot Robbie, Viola Davis and Will Smith deliver good performances out of the material they’re given. Jai Courtney finally emotes as Captain Boomerang, and there’s a brief but satisfying callback to the animated series early on in the film that brought a smile to my face. But overall, Suicide Squad is a massive disappointment, and is for the moment, my pick for the worst movie of 2016.

    2/10

    PS. Regarding the outrage from fans over how critics have received this film, this needs to be said: I am a fan of all things Batman and DC Comics, and always have been since childhood. I was especially excited for this film not only because I couldn’t wait to see a new set of comic characters on the big screen, but also because a badass anti-hero team is unique to DC’s cinematic universe, and something that could’ve gotten the one-up they needed to compete with Marvel (as good as Captain America: Civil War was, it didn’t do anything new in my opinion). It’s a shame there wasn’t enough time spent on it to make a good movie.
    Last Five Films I've Seen (Out of 5)

    Tetsuo: The Iron Man (Tsukamoto, 1989) WTF
    The Wolf Man (Waggner, 1941) 4
    The Exterminating Angel (Buñuel, 1962) 4.5
    Maniac (Lustig, 1980) 4.5
    Friday The 13th Part V: A New Beginning (Steinmann, 1985) 2
    Friday The 13th Part VIII: Jason Takes Manhattan (Hedden, 1989) 3
    Friday The 13th Part VII: The New Blood (Buechler, 1988) 4
    Lone Wolf and Cub: Sword of Vengeance (Misumi, 1972) 4.5

    The last movie I saw in a theater before the apocalypse was Cats.

    Let that sink in.

    Fox Force Five News

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