Warcraft (Duncan Jones)

[Ivan Drago]

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[Ivan Drago]

This needed more than just Mr. T as a Night Elf Mohawk. While the Orcs look awesome, and there is a fair share of cool visual moments, on the whole, it's an absolute clusterfuck with too much going on, hit and miss action sequences, storytelling that's rushed and incomprehensible, and it expects the audience to know the universe of Azeroth going in. It's headache-inducing just to comprehend the powers each character has, what the types of energy are, and who the heck we're supposed to root for. As an outsider to the mythology of Warcraft, I got pwned hardcore bro.

[Dukefrukem]

That's the exact consensus I'm hearing. Fans understand everything and don't have to constantly be trying to figure things out, while Non-fans are trying to figure out the difference between red and blue magic.

This will still get a sequel. And it will be titled: World of Warcraft.

[Morris Schæffer]

I have to admit to being a bit puzzled with non-fans struggling to understand this. The trailer seemed to lay it out in pretty simple terms. Orcs and humans have been enemies for a long time, and now they must seek each other out in the hopes of forging an alliance because of a common enemy. Am I off course?

That would seem to be enough for non-fans right? Or must they know the difference between red and a blue magic?

[[ETM]]

It's not difficult to comprehend for non-fans, but most of it just falls flat and has no significant emotional or other impact. The movie is the very definition of "meh" unless you're a fan.

[TGM]

Comparatively speaking, this was a much better movie than Ninja Turtles: Out of the Shadows.

I actually quite enjoyed this one. Yet another hit from Duncan Jones, IMO.

[TGM]

As an outsider to the mythology of Warcraft, I got pwned hardcore bro.

I know absolutely nothing about Warcraft and had no trouble at all following along. I found it all to be pretty straight forward, in fact.

[TGM]

It's not difficult to comprehend for non-fans, but most of it just falls flat and has no significant emotional or other impact. The movie is the very definition of "meh" unless you're a fan.

I would disagree with this as well. There were plenty of genuinely emotional moments throughout. They do a good enough job fleshing out the struggles of our main cast that the moments that are meant to hit big definitely land. In the hands of a lesser director I can certainly see this falling to pieces, but Duncan Jones managed to keep this thing together and make it work regardless.

[[ETM]]

I'll grant you a couple of moments with the Orcs, but not nearly enough for the movie as a whole.

[Henry Gale]

Toggles between "not very good", "very not-good", and "oh that's kinda cool"... all amounting to very little.

I just hope Jones doesn't spend another 3 years on a potential sequel, since even someone as smart as him can't find a way to give all of this any real sense of a unique personality, and definitely doesn't manage to showcase his own. I completely agree with what's already been said, especially about the convoluted-ness, which more came from assuming there had to be more to it than what already gathering, leaving me confused as I tilted my ear towards it to try to scramble gather what I might've been missing, since its way of painting these ideas and people couldn't possibly be all there was. But it all turns out to be only ankle-deep.

The few (spoiler-y) things I liked:

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Show Spoiler

- The early shots of the floating in-between of the Orcs' world and Azeroth through the portal is gorgeous, even haunting stuff. Too bad the idea of it is later abandoned as we see people walking straight through it without delay.

- The way they make it clear that the Orcs are not speaking in the "main tongue", as the over-the-shoulder shot of the humans with Patton's character translating cranes towards Kebbel's orc speech transitioning back to how they actually sound to how we've heard it the rest of the time. Clever, well-conceived bit of babel-fish explaining.

- The fact that it wasn't entirely humourless. Not sure any of its attempts at levity actually resulted in noticeable laughs from me, but the consistent effort was enough to admire.

- The big, heavily telegraphed development of Cooper's king's death actually being given an intelligent, meaningful story turn in the way of him sacrificing himself for the greater good and for a continued hope between the two peoples was a moment that made me wish it had done more to make me invested in these characters and world otherwise.

- Having Kebbel's Durotan (who through the mo-cap comes away with the most compelling performance) actual die when he's arguably the protagonist here, or at least his plight and overall character act as the pure embodiment of the two sides' battle for the greater good come to a sudden, tragic end was an unexpected choice. It didn't even hit me right away since I was expecting a miraculous resurrection of sorts -- as in Guldan would die and all the souls he sucked out would be magically restored -- but, nope! It had balls! Credit where credit's due!

]

Otherwise the only things that really kept me impressed now and then were a nice smattering of moments of visual imagination and scope (the library staircase, the floating council, the dark-box thing with Glenn Close inside) that made me feel like this is what a lot of the ambitious, mostly matte-painted worlds of '70s and '80s fantasy and sci-fi movies could've looked like if they were made with the effects of today, actually letting their characters interact with them a little more.

But alas, there's just not much more of a movie here. Oddly the scenes that only have CG are the ones that don't feel artificial, even if they feel like really polished video game cut-scenes more often than not. The ones with real actors on more tangible sets feel very stilted and awkward, like their costumes were meant for actors who dropped out at the last minute, with a tone to their acting that feels like they're waiting to be told this is all actually a parody of these sorts of fantasy epics, which would allow them to suddenly breathe like human beings. It all has a very wobbly tone. Not to mention the young mage character is just atrocious, from performance to the dialogue driving his character to.. ugh I just hope if there's another one of these and I end up watching it he's not around. I'm someone who finds it funny that these sorts of things always opt for non-American accents, but oh wow between him and Ben Foster here maybe there's a good reason for that trope.

So there you go, a movie that a long time ago seemed like a bad idea, which then seemed more promising when people like Sam Raimi circled it and eventually Jones got the job, actually ended up being that pointless-sounding movie I / we originally assumed. It's not an interesting spectacle or at spectacular failure, it's stuck in the void of not being very much at all.

Having just watched the first Preacher episode, it was fun to see Cooper and Negga share the screen in such wildly different roles. Also the purple teeth / wild eyebrow guy. He brought it.

*½ / 3.3

[TGM]

I keep seeing the criticism that the movie's hard to follow for non-fans, and I just can't wrap my head around that at all. I've never played any of the games, have no familiarity with any of the Warcraft lore, and hell, going into it, I didn't even know there WAS a story to Warcraft, which this movie is apparently very faithful to. And yet even so, the movie clearly explains everything that needs to be explained throughout, and otherwise, the story is honestly so simple and straight forward, that I just don't even get where that complaint is coming from.

This is such a straight forward fantasy flick, it's really not all that complex in the least, and I had no issues following along with this movie at any point. I mean, I've SEEN my fair share of confusing movies, and this is by no means one of them. Like, at all. And yet more and more I see that complaint popping up, and it leaves me wondering, what part specifically is throwing people off so much? Because when I think back to the movie, I honestly just can't see it at all. No offense intended to anyone here, but it's all so clearly explained and laid out, the only conclusion I can jump to is that people seemingly just aren't paying any attention. :\

[Skitch]

I have that reaction A LOT when people start having those complaints about mainstream tentpole fare (*cough* BvS *cough*).

[Henry Gale]

I think it's more that it throws so many tongue-twister names and words at you so quickly early on that once you get them all straight, you realize there's not much more to it behind that veil of new terms for things you've seen many times before in other fantasy stuff. Not to mention I think(?) it starts itself off with a distant flash-forward as our first initiation to the world at all, which only occurred to me after the movie.

It's confusing in the sense of someone telling you to make three lefts when you could've just made one right. It's elaborate without being elegant or economic.

[Wryan]

I can't remember the last time a recent movie would so obviously benefit from additional time and film to work out the kinks. To connect more of the sinew and tissue that feels a little threadbare here. To maybe secure a few more takes to smooth out some of the wonkyness of some moments. I liked how much it trawled, willingly, in tropes both familiar and upended. Characterizations were better on the orc side than human. This was a high-wire act, for sure, but perhaps trying it with one hand tied behind the back was a little too unnecessarily risky. Knowing that Jones had to cut about 30+ minutes convinces me that there's something much better down in there, buried somewhere. I'd watch it again with the fuller cut restored, certainly, but not otherwise. However, this ain't gonna be a LOTR:EE kind of deal, I suspect. Would cost too much in effects to have a director's cut.

[Henry Gale]

I can't remember the last time a recent movie would so obviously benefit from additional time and film to work out the kinks. To connect more of the sinew and tissue that feels a little threadbare here. To maybe secure a few more takes to smooth out some of the wonkyness of some moments. I liked how much it trawled, willingly, in tropes both familiar and upended. Characterizations were better on the orc side than human. This was a high-wire act, for sure, but perhaps trying it with one hand tied behind the back was a little too unnecessarily risky. Knowing that Jones had to cut about 30+ minutes convinces me that there's something much better down in there, buried somewhere. I'd watch it again with the fuller cut restored, certainly, but not otherwise. However, this ain't gonna be a LOTR:EE kind of deal, I suspect. Would cost too much in effects to have a director's cut.

Definitely agree with this. The amount of sudden, awkward dissolves alone can almost point to scenes you know were longer at some point. At its fleeting best, it reminded me of something like Kingdom of Heaven where you can feel the potential there, but it's just being suffocated and torn apart. Like, I feel like I want to be feeling something here, but the emotional groundwork hasn't been laid.

This movie was also in post-production for almost two years, so there's a good chance they rendered a lot more effects than the typical studio picture before deciding what was going to go from the theatrical cut. Things like the wooden human performances and heavy cosplay look to everything shot outside of everything in the CG realm would still be prevalent issues even with an ideal, fleshed-out cut, but at least it'd potentially have more to latch on to and invest in.

[Ivan Drago]

And yet even so, the movie clearly explains everything that needs to be explained throughout, and otherwise, the story is honestly so simple and straight forward, that I just don't even get where that complaint is coming from.

I felt like I needed more details about the characters and the elements that were introduced. Early in the movie, Lothar pulls Cadgar's arm toward him, revealing a symbol on it. What does it mean, and what is he to have the powers he has? What's the blue energy in The Guardian's pool? What is The Fell and why is it bad? Those are just a few examples that come to my mind, but if there were any explanations about each of them, I missed them because they were so rushed. As an outsider, is a little more time to establish the mechanics of a new universe too much to ask for?

[TGM]

I think it's more that it throws so many tongue-twister names and words at you so quickly early on that once you get them all straight, you realize there's not much more to it behind that veil of new terms for things you've seen many times before in other fantasy stuff. Not to mention I think(?) it starts itself off with a distant flash-forward as our first initiation to the world at all, which only occurred to me after the movie.

It's confusing in the sense of someone telling you to make three lefts when you could've just made one right. It's elaborate without being elegant or economic.

I mean, to an extent I can see this, as the movie may not have explained everything immediately. But it did always eventually get around to it, and never lingered long enough on any given point without explanation to where I was taken out of the movie trying to figure out what's going on. The movie does a good enough job giving you the gist of what's happening at any given moment, even if they do attach the odd name to whatever it is they're doing here or there. I mean, perhaps the issue here was that you were maybe trying to put too much thought into the movie, rather than just going along for the ride and letting it naturally play out for you? The only time I was a little confused was early on as it concerned the importance of The Guardian. But by the time they explained his actual role in this universe, it was then that I realized that the movie wasn't going to just leave me behind to just scratch my head and try and figure it all out on my own, even if I hadn't played the games. I realized that they were gonna help segue us non-gamers in at their own pace and ease us along as the movie played out, and the film did precisely that for me.

I felt like I needed more details about the characters and the elements that were introduced. Early in the movie, Lothar pulls Cadgar's arm toward him, revealing a symbol on it. What does it mean, and what is he to have the powers he has? What's the blue energy in The Guardian's pool? What is The Fell and why is it bad? Those are just a few examples that come to my mind, but if there were any explanations about each of them, I missed them because they were so rushed. As an outsider, is a little more time to establish the mechanics of a new universe too much to ask for?

All of this stuff was explained, though. If not verbally in all instances, at least visually. And besides, does everything really need to be explained immediately? I feel if the movie put itself on pause to explain every single thing that was happening as it was happening, the new complaint being lobbied its way would be that the dialogue is too exposition heavy. But the movie put some faith in the audience to pick up on what was happening, and I feel did a good enough job showing us what all of these things mean to where it was easy enough to follow along.

The mark on his arm signified his role as a mage. Do I know the entire background behind that mark and it's full relevance? No. But is any of that necessarily important to the plot at hand? I'm not so sure that it is. We learn enough about the character and his relations with the mages to get enough of a grasp as to what's happening and why it all is. When his mark is glowing, it's because he's being summoned. We don't know this fact immediately, but we don't need to, either, as neither does the character himself just yet. It's enough to leave us intrigued, until the plot finally does get to that point in the movie to bring it all together. Not all mysteries have to be solved right away.

What's the blue energy in the Guardian's pool? Verbally, they never say. However, visually, we see that he always returns to this pool whenever he's drained of energy, so we can ascertain from this that he uses it to recharge his powers. And near the end, we also see that he uses this to power his magic at work for the big finale of the movie, so it's safe to assume the pool is probably something like a mana pool, a source of power for him. This was shown to us clearly on a number of occasions, and though no character ever explicitly stopped the movie to explain this to us, the movie itself told us everything we needed to know purely on a visual level.

The Fell is a source of power that works by stealing the lifeforce from another being. It's bad because, well, by its very nature it's stealing life from someone else for one's own personal, selfish gain. And as a result, it's a power that corrupts. Pretty straight forward fantasy stuff I felt, and this is one that was explained both verbally and visually, and on a plethora of times throughout the movie at that. I really don't see the confusion on this point at all.

I've seen movies where it feels like the filmmakers are withholding information from the viewers and expecting them to already know everything going into it, but this really wasn't an example of that sorta movie to me. Everything was explained, maybe not always immediately, but the movie always eventually got around to it. And I actually appreciated the movie for not completely dumbing everything down and treating the audience like an idiot, muddying up the dialogue with a lot of unnecessary exposition, when all of the pieces to the puzzle are already there, just so long as you're paying attention.

[Mal]

This movie feels like something from 1985, which can be a bad or good thing depending what you want from your Orcs vs. Humans universe. It's a mostly "for fans" film, definitely. I enjoyed the references to the game I grew up playing and the CGI was pretty great at times. As far as fantasy fare goes, I think I might have enjoyed this more than every single Hobbit film.

[TGM]

Agreed on the Hobbits. This was easily better than any of those.

[Dukefrukem]

The first Hobbit film gets a lot of hate, but I actually think it's quite good and better than Return of the King.

[Morris Schæffer]

The first Hobbit film gets a lot of hate, but I actually think it's quite good and better than Return of the King.

Come on man! The Hobbit was good, I can imagine it being better than Warcraft, but better than Return of the King?! How do you defend that?

[Dukefrukem]

Return of the King was way too fucking long and reused a lot of the things we saw in TTT.

[TGM]

Return of the King was way too fucking long and reused a lot of the things we saw in TTT.

But the first Hobbit reused all of the things we already saw in The Fellowship of the Ring.

[Dukefrukem]

But the first Hobbit reused all of the things we already saw in The Fellowship of the Ring.

Aside from the overall "journey" theme (which I love in the franchise) what was reused?

I was referring to the giant battle at the end of RotK (same as TTT), Gollum and Frodo (same shit different day) and now top it off with the shoe-horned in Army of the Dead deus ex machina. It's a mess and there's nothing especially great about the finale except for some choice scenes with Aragon.

Sorry, but TTT is the clear best movie in the franchise.

[TGM]

Aside from the overall "journey" theme (which I love in the franchise) what was reused?

It's not just the fact that they go on a journey, but every step along the way on that journey is a beat for beat retread of Fellowship. The whole movie is essentially Fellowship-lite in that regard, certainly much more so than Return of the King retreads any ground from Towers at least.

But anyways, because no one asked for it, let's rank some shit:

The Return of the King
The Fellowship of the Ring
The Two Towers
The Desolation of Smaug
An Unexpected Journey
The Battle of the Five Armies

Though based purely on entertainment value alone, I'm tempted to place Smaug above Two Towers. I fully acknowledge that from a quality standpoint, Smaug is a very problematic movie, and quality wise, Two Towers is certainly the better made film of the two, without a shadow of a doubt. I just happened to quite enjoy the hell out of it is all.

That said, to bring it back around to Warcraft, I suppose you could place that right in the middle there between the Rings films and the Hobbit ones. I would say that, in terms of sheer entertainment value and nothing more, I'd again be tempted to place Smaug above it when comparing to The Hobbit movies (The Desolation of Smaug is just a very entertaining movie you guys!), though Warcraft is certainly the more overall solid movie of the two. Doesn't really hold a candle compared to the Rings films, though.