View Poll Results: X-Men: Apocalypse (Bryan Singer)

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Thread: X-Men: Apocalypse (Bryan Singer)

  1. #1
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    X-Men: Apocalypse (Bryan Singer)

    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  2. #2
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    Some big, messy problems, but one clear thought after when comparing it to other superhero mash-ups thus far: Bryan Singer is a legit director. The Russos balance elements well and have deft characterization, but their directorial flair and weight feel lacking a bit (although they improve considerably towards Civil War's end). Snyder can compose some pretty, almost-mythic images, but is shit at storytelling and characterization that would make those images have meaning or be impactful.


    Throughout his superhero films, Singer often has the good qualities of both directors while keeping the flaws to a minimum. Apocalypse is a mixed bag though. Good things first: this thing has some serious scope and scale, unafraid to aim and go big (sometimes even goofily so) in term of how global the repercussions can feel or how deep the traumas of these X-Men can run. And for the most part, Singer and the actors, both war-weary veterans and energetic new faces, nail it.


    Two big problems, however. First, the scope might be a bit too big for one feature film to portray the events effectively without feeling rushed. And I still think this problem wouldn't feel so prominent or matter that much if not for the second one: this being a prequel to the original X-Men films. The scope this big needs to go all in, but there are a few events that have yet to come and some characters that must not be moved too much from their eventual trajectories. That creates some serious liabilities and digressions, especially towards the end, accompanying by a deflating feeling from the film stepping back from the scale it has established. I like to imagine one of the reasons they are going to space in the next one is that there might be more freedom to move the story around without affecting the path towards the original films too much.


    So, very mild yay. I'm still fairly positive on the film than most people would be, I think, because I find Singer a great superhero director, and because I also really love the middle section, where chaos reigns and the film has to rely mostly on the new cast. Winning performances all around, and it's great to see their dynamics develop over time.



    PS. Quicksilver has another signature superpower scene I love even more than the DOFP one, which I thought wasn't possible.
    Last edited by Peng; 05-19-2016 at 05:59 PM.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  3. #3
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    How does Wolverine fit into this story if it's a prequel to the original X-Men films?

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  4. #4
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    How does Wolverine fit into this story if it's a prequel to the original X-Men films?
    Pretty sure the less you think about this, the better. Or at least just use the Mad Max philosophy of each movie only needing the continuity it needs for the story at hand and working better for it.

    Days of Future Past's timeline was already something of an alternate one that assumed nothing in The Last Stand other than the deaths of Scott and Jean happened, and even then you can just interpret that they just died in the war. I mean, Logan stopping the Trask events in the '70s directly related to their dystopia brought them back to life! Plus we never saw the slow build in the sentinels' power up until that point in the previous films, so just assume Trask never existed the same way in Singer's original two films and his third was something new.

    Just go with this for Apocalypse: Same timeline as First Class and Xavier & co's perspective of DoFP, but a new one for Wolverine as far as we've known him, in this one he might not even be aware of what happened in Days of Future Past despite his body physically pushed along to the events here (think of it like his body was possessed). Either way, fresh start, from his perspective he meets the team members here instead of through Rogue in 2000's X-Men, even if everyone who knew him in Future Past might have other things to say.
    Last edited by Henry Gale; 05-20-2016 at 01:27 AM.
    Cold War (Pawlikowski, 2018) - **** / 9.3
    Minding the Gap (Liu, 2018) - **** / 9.0
    Green Book (Farrelly, 2018) - **½ / 5.8
    Mandy (Cosmatos, 2018) - **** / 8.9
    The Lego Movie 2: The Second Part (Mitchell, 2019) - *** / 7.7
    Alita: Battle Angel (Rodriguez, 2019) - **½ / 5.9
    Bohemian Rhapsody ("Singer", 2018) - ** / 4.1
    Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse (Persichetti/Ramsey/Rothman, 2018) - **** / 9.2
    Vice (McKay, 2018) - **½ / 5.6
    The Favourite (Lanthimos, 2018) - **** / 9.3

  5. #5
    good for health Skitch's Avatar
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    Wow, I am surprisingly okay with that reasoning.

  6. #6
    Scott of the Antarctic Milky Joe's Avatar
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    Nice explanation.
    ‎The severed arm perfectly acquitted itself, because of the simplicity of its wishes and its total lack of doubt.

  7. #7
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    Oh shit, I was so tired after the film when I wrote that that I somehow blanked out on DOFP changing the timeline at the end, but yeah, I should rephrase based on what I saw. It feels like some vague trajectory of the original X-Men films is still mostly there, just mainly minus The Last Stand. There is too much a feeling of pieces moving into place for some dynamics or plot points from the first two X-Men, so they didn't entirely disregard those films. Still, timeline being changed seems to allow them some wiggle room not for it to be a strict set-up, because I was wondering a few times during Apocalypse along the line of "Huh, are the characters supposed to have this interaction together, know this thing, and/or show this power by now?"

    So, in essence, very vague prequel to the first two X-Men films. So Henry Gale's explanation kinda works too.

    To answer Duke, it's a cameo appearance that doesn't contradict the "vague prequel" status too much... I think.

    Adding to the possible headache, even if the timeline makes sense, the actors' ages in relation to it surely don't, lol. Prepare for some cognitive dissonance.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  8. #8
    Do you all tolerate these timeline contortions because you're comic book fans? As a non-comics reader, it's a huge turn off.
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  9. #9
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    Do you all tolerate these timeline contortions because you're comic book fans? As a non-comics reader, it's a huge turn off.
    I think Fox is just trying to do their best after not having a real plan or strategy after X3: Last Stand. Compared to BV, it annoys the shit out of me because it seems so easy to do in comic-book land.

    I wonder if 8 has any info on whether or not they are trying to setup their cinematic universe beyond "the next X-Men movie". Like, what are their REAL long term plans with Deadpool and Wolverine? I read recently they are thinking of casting a Wolverine replacement as X-23. That would rule. But they dont give us anything to look forward to.

    And god forbid they continue to ignore and squander the most powerful super villain on Marvel's paper.

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  10. #10
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    I am a non-comic reader. I'm not tolerating as much as fascinated (and thrilled that they mostly pull it off) by the filmmaker's attempts to push forward without outright rebooting. I would be turn off more by reboots since they're so prevalent these days.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  11. #11
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    Do you all tolerate these timeline contortions because you're comic book fans? As a non-comics reader, it's a huge turn off.
    I dunno, maybe I just don't care that much? If it's continuity within the film at hand doesn't work, then sure, it's irksome, but beyond that, if it's emotionally compelling, I'm not going to let myself over-think it to ruin that. I know this is the complete opposite of what the MCU has trained our brains to do with modern superhero movies, but I kind of admire Singer, Kinberg & co. just going "Fuck it, what do we actually want to happen here?", unrestricted by what's already been done.

    It might also come from the fact that one of my biggest turn-offs with prequels is knowing certain things can't end up detrimentally different from what we already know, so the fact that these more recent X-Men movies clearly have no real desire to sync up perfectly with the original trilogy is much more interesting to me and freeing from a storytelling point of view.
    Cold War (Pawlikowski, 2018) - **** / 9.3
    Minding the Gap (Liu, 2018) - **** / 9.0
    Green Book (Farrelly, 2018) - **½ / 5.8
    Mandy (Cosmatos, 2018) - **** / 8.9
    The Lego Movie 2: The Second Part (Mitchell, 2019) - *** / 7.7
    Alita: Battle Angel (Rodriguez, 2019) - **½ / 5.9
    Bohemian Rhapsody ("Singer", 2018) - ** / 4.1
    Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse (Persichetti/Ramsey/Rothman, 2018) - **** / 9.2
    Vice (McKay, 2018) - **½ / 5.6
    The Favourite (Lanthimos, 2018) - **** / 9.3

  12. #12
    Quote Quoting Henry Gale (view post)
    I dunno, maybe I just don't care that much? If it's continuity within the film at hand doesn't work, then sure, it's irksome, but beyond that, if it's emotionally compelling, I'm not going to let myself over-think it to ruin that.
    But none of it is. None of it. The X-Men series or the MCU. It's all just nonsense. But at least the MCU has a game plan that may pay off eventually. The X-Men series is a mess.
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    The Counterfeit Traitor (1962) 62

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  13. #13
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    Well, you should have told me that before I went and watched it. I just wasted 2.5 hours deluding myself I was being emotionally compelled.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  14. #14
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    But none of it is. None of it. The X-Men series or the MCU. It's all just nonsense. But at least the MCU has a game plan that may pay off eventually. The X-Men series is a mess.
    I think this is the issue. As much as things have undeniably changed with the increased serialization of big-budget filmmaking, I still think it's best to go with committing to each movie (as an audience, anyway) as its own fully-formed, self-supported thing to assess instead of sitting in a hammock between a bigger beginning and end.

    If you're looking for Marvel Studios' to all to lead somewhere but haven't already felt fulfilled by each movie on their own terms and aren't moved by anything they offer in the moment, then I can't imagine any destination (which I don't see either of them or X-Men having in any clear terms in even the foreseeable decade other than with stars and certain key players behind the scenes moving on from the properties) magically elevating everything that's come before.

    All I know is that I can't deny Days of Future Past and Guardians of the Galaxy are among the few recent blockbusters that moved me to tears (in the same summer, even!) so I can safely say I don't need what comes next to them to justify those emotions in any way.

    Quote Quoting Peng (view post)
    Well, you should have told me that before I went and watched it. I just wasted 2.5 hours deluding myself I was being emotionally compelled.
    Haha, exactly. Like shit, now I gotta tell the pre-teen me he was an idiot for liking Singer's first two movies because their continuity would be betrayed in over a decade.
    Last edited by Henry Gale; 05-20-2016 at 05:14 PM.
    Cold War (Pawlikowski, 2018) - **** / 9.3
    Minding the Gap (Liu, 2018) - **** / 9.0
    Green Book (Farrelly, 2018) - **½ / 5.8
    Mandy (Cosmatos, 2018) - **** / 8.9
    The Lego Movie 2: The Second Part (Mitchell, 2019) - *** / 7.7
    Alita: Battle Angel (Rodriguez, 2019) - **½ / 5.9
    Bohemian Rhapsody ("Singer", 2018) - ** / 4.1
    Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse (Persichetti/Ramsey/Rothman, 2018) - **** / 9.2
    Vice (McKay, 2018) - **½ / 5.6
    The Favourite (Lanthimos, 2018) - **** / 9.3

  15. #15
    White Tiger Field Stay Puft's Avatar
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    I thought the whole point of DOFP was to reboot the whole thing. Like, brand new timeline now, none of the other films matter. The one thing I do remember them going out of their way to explain is that Wolverine won't remember events from DOFP in the new timeline because his consciousness returns to the "future" (hence the "welcome back" scene with Xavier).

    It's kinda weird that they're apparently not doing that? I mean it's still Bryan Singer, it's still the First Class cast, so I guess it makes sense it's not a complete reboot or something but... yeah I can't help but feel anything less is just asking for trouble. I think it's time to ditch this creative team. I've enjoyed the work they've done here (for the most part) and I loved what DOFP brought to everything as a reflexive, nostalgic piece of franchise reflection, but trying to force a "cinematic universe" out of this hot mess is a mistake. I'll admit, even I'm tired of it. It's stale.

    We've seen what Singer & co. are capable of and frankly it remains lacking in so many ways that I'm starting to sympathize with the comic nerds. I want (and I feel we really need) a completely new cinematic interpretation of this stuff (especially if Fox is going for a MCU thing). Reboot the whole thing and start from scratch. Build a strong foundation and grow it from there.

    I say all of this having not seen Apocalypse, of course. Maybe I'll still enjoy it. I hope so. But I doubt it will change how I feel about the current overall state of this franchise. It needs fresh blood.
    Last edited by Stay Puft; 05-20-2016 at 10:39 PM.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Quoting Stay Puft (view post)
    It's kinda weird that they're apparently not doing that? I mean it's still Bryan Singer, it's still the First Class cast, so I guess it makes sense it's not a complete reboot or something but... yeah I can't help but feel anything less is just asking for trouble.
    I might be overstating it since I had a major brain fart while writing about it, because DOFP definitely did a soft, sort-of reboot. But still, without me getting too much into Apocalypse, the ending of DOFP also means that Wolverine is in possession of someone, still on a path to that school, his dynamics with Scott and Jean Grey are still the same, etc. So a very vague timeline from the first two films remain.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  17. #17
    Quote Quoting Peng (view post)
    Well, you should have told me that before I went and watched it. I just wasted 2.5 hours deluding myself I was being emotionally compelled.
    It's two and a half hours long? Jeez...
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  18. #18
    Quote Quoting Henry Gale (view post)
    I think this is the issue. As much as things have undeniably changed with the increased serialization of big-budget filmmaking, I still think it's best to go with committing to each movie (as an audience, anyway) as its own fully-formed, self-supported thing to assess instead of sitting in a hammock between a bigger beginning and end.

    If you're looking for Marvel Studios' to all to lead somewhere but haven't already felt fulfilled by each movie on their own terms and aren't moved by anything they offer in the moment, then I can't imagine any destination (which I don't see either of them or X-Men having in any clear terms in even the foreseeable decade other than with stars and certain key players behind the scenes moving on from the properties) magically elevating everything that's come before. .
    I watch them for the action and the jokes, pretty much. I'll watch Thor 3 because I want Waititi to do well. The possibility of it paying off is just something that I kid myself that might happen. All I know is that my ass felt every second of the speechifying in The Avengers 2 and CA3, and it's getting clunkier and more stodgy each time all of them get together. The best bets are now the movies in the sidelines doing their own things (Antman, GotG).

    X-Men, though, has always just been kind of cut-rate and messy, not very funny, and kinda one-note.
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  19. #19
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Stay Puft (view post)
    . I think it's time to ditch this creative team. I've enjoyed the work they've done here (for the most part) and I loved what DOFP brought to everything as a reflexive, nostalgic piece of franchise reflection, but trying to force a "cinematic universe" out of this hot mess is a mistake. I'll admit, even I'm tired of it. It's stale.

    We've seen what Singer & co. are capable of and frankly it remains lacking in so many ways that I'm starting to sympathize with the comic nerds. I want (and I feel we really need) a completely new cinematic interpretation of this stuff (especially if Fox is going for a MCU thing). Reboot the whole thing and start from scratch. Build a strong foundation and grow it from there.
    Start an online petition and let's get this ball moving.

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  20. #20
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  21. #21
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Welp. I know I said I wasn't gonna see this but... it's a holiday weekend and I figured wtf.

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  22. #22
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    I liked it.

    Apocalypse is goofy. He never comes off as threatening and his horsemen do absolutely nothing (seriously, why is Psylocke in this?). The whole film feels like a live-action adaptation of the 90's show, so if that was your jam as a kid (like it was for me), you'll dig it.

    Also, Fassbender gives his all in this franchise. He is way too good for this.
    Sure why not?

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  23. #23
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Honestly, instantly my third favourite of the whole series.

    It's definitely a bit scrappy and its visual ambition feels a bit beyond its reach considering even with all the money and imagination here, its runtime and effects seems a bit overwhelmed by everything it's looking to get across, but it still all worked for me surprisingly strongly for me despite seeing it is on the messy side (but I'll say what I usually do, which is that messes are mostly made up of stuff that matters) and agreeing with Wats that Apocalypse himself never really feels as vicious and intimidating as he should, though I think that's mainly a physical appearance / lack of dominance thing, since his threatening ultimatum and the extent of his powers are more than clear and devastating. Isaac is good in the role, and everything he does has the right scarily realized motive behind it, but when the camera cuts to him, particularly against other characters, he just kind of feels static on screen.

    Whatever though, since I thought the movie was really good otherwise. Not sure why this of all recent big movies or even this franchise has seemingly divided people so strongly, since to me for all its blemishes it's still endlessly more exciting and emotionally stirring than anything in the series other than maybe the last one and X2 for me.

    But those lowered expectations might've done just the trick to impress me as much as it did. More thoughts later, but for now: Thumbs up.
    Cold War (Pawlikowski, 2018) - **** / 9.3
    Minding the Gap (Liu, 2018) - **** / 9.0
    Green Book (Farrelly, 2018) - **½ / 5.8
    Mandy (Cosmatos, 2018) - **** / 8.9
    The Lego Movie 2: The Second Part (Mitchell, 2019) - *** / 7.7
    Alita: Battle Angel (Rodriguez, 2019) - **½ / 5.9
    Bohemian Rhapsody ("Singer", 2018) - ** / 4.1
    Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse (Persichetti/Ramsey/Rothman, 2018) - **** / 9.2
    Vice (McKay, 2018) - **½ / 5.6
    The Favourite (Lanthimos, 2018) - **** / 9.3

  24. #24
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Henry Gale (view post)
    Honestly, instantly my third favourite of the whole series.
    Not really saying much though right? There's 8 X-Men movies (3 worth watching again). 9 if you include Deadpool. It's automatically going to be better than Origins, First Class and X3. Which starts it off at 5.

    Now we just need to figure out where it sits between The Wolverine (disliked), DOFP (hated) and the original X-Men (loved).

    So before I even see the movie, I'm assuming it's going to be somewhere in my top 3.

    [/cynical Duke]

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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies

  25. #25
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Nov 2007
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    4,666
    I mean, why not:

    1. X2 / Days of Future Past (I can go back and forth with them, but the former is what put in place most of the emotional groundwork for the latter to pay off and send off pretty perfectly a decade later for me
    2. ..
    3. Apocalypse
    4. X-Men
    5. First Class (though its early X-Men Origins: Magneto-type scenes might be some of the best stuff in the whole series)
      -------
    6. The Wolverine
    7. Deadpool
    8. The Last Stand
    9. Origins: Wolverine
    Last edited by Henry Gale; 05-27-2016 at 03:25 PM.
    Cold War (Pawlikowski, 2018) - **** / 9.3
    Minding the Gap (Liu, 2018) - **** / 9.0
    Green Book (Farrelly, 2018) - **½ / 5.8
    Mandy (Cosmatos, 2018) - **** / 8.9
    The Lego Movie 2: The Second Part (Mitchell, 2019) - *** / 7.7
    Alita: Battle Angel (Rodriguez, 2019) - **½ / 5.9
    Bohemian Rhapsody ("Singer", 2018) - ** / 4.1
    Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse (Persichetti/Ramsey/Rothman, 2018) - **** / 9.2
    Vice (McKay, 2018) - **½ / 5.6
    The Favourite (Lanthimos, 2018) - **** / 9.3

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