The Match Cut Presidential Dog and Pony Show

[MadMan]

Irish I believe I agreed with most of your last posts in this thread so I didn't feel the need to state the obvious.

[MadMan]

Fuck I'm glad I don't have to put up with your shit political system. It would be maddening.

The US political system is pretty shitty. Only two major parties to choose from in a huge country full of millions? What a joke.

[[ETM]]

Even if you only take into account the spiteful reversal of anything Obama's centrist administration managed to pull off in the current US political climate, the full devastating effects of Trumpian rule could very well turn out to be immeasurable and irreversible, especially if you let him have another term.

EDIT: Like this, for example: https://youtu.be/EdvJSGc14xA

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[Ezee E]

How come these candidates can't have VPs in mind? For Bernie and Bloomberg, this seems.... kinda big.

[Dukefrukem]

Guys... these dems can't win. This is a total bummer.

[bac0n]

How come these candidates can't have VPs in mind? For Bernie and Bloomberg, this seems.... kinda big.

Oh I'm sure they do - they're just playing their cards close to their chest. I bet among the VP choices are fellow would-be presidential nominees.

[Irish]

Guys... these dems can't win. This is a total bummer.

I don't think this is true.

Bernie has a shot. Depends on the DNC & the networks tho'.

[Dukefrukem]

I don't think this is true.

Bernie has a shot. Depends on the DNC & the networks tho'.

General public won't elect a socialist.

[Irish]

General public won't elect a socialist.

He isn't a socialist.

Either way, I don't think the general public will care what he is when they hear "livable wage," "price controls," and "~free healthcare."

Trump will have no legitimate answer to Bernie's policy positions (because Trump doesn't have positions that aren't rooted in self-interest), so he'll come up with an illegitimate answer.

This'll be a problem because CNN and MSNBC will unthinkingly parrot whatever Trump says.

If it gets that far. I fully expect the DNC to fuck Bernie out of the nomination. Somehow.

[Ezee E]

At this point, why are people like Klobucher-downward even running? Let it be Bernie/Pete/Biden, they can share who their running mate is, and after Super Tuesday, let it be. Focus on the big picture.

[Dukefrukem]

He isn't a socialist.

Either way, I don't think the general public will care what he is when they hear "livable wage," "price controls," and "~free healthcare."

Trump will have no legitimate answer to Bernie's policy positions (because Trump doesn't have positions that aren't rooted in self-interest), so he'll come up with an illegitimate answer.

This'll be a problem because CNN and MSNBC will unthinkingly parrot whatever Trump says.

If it gets that far. I fully expect the DNC to fuck Bernie out of the nomination. Somehow.

He's pretty much against the idea of Capitalism, wants everyone to have free everything at the expense of everyone, and have everyone pay for dumb people's poor decisions when it comes to student loans. It's as close to a modern day socialist as you can possibly get.

"What is your plan to bail us dumb people out?"

[Ezee E]

It's great to talk about free healthcare, free education, etc... But are you willing to give up 20% more of your paycheck as a result?

[Irish]

He's pretty much against the idea of Capitalism

Now you're just red baiting.

It's great to talk about free healthcare, free education, etc... But are you willing to give up 20% more of your paycheck as a result?

We already paying more than that for the wars, the NSA, and ICE. So why not send money where it might do some good?

Either you guys are much, much wealthier than I thought (and you'll actually be effected by Bernie's tax proposal) or you're just parroting talking points from news radio.

PS: Germany and France have free and/or affordable public education at a university level. So did California up until very recently. Nobody thought them particularly "socialist."

PPS: If you really are this wealthy, can I have some money?

[[ETM]]

He's pretty much against the idea of Capitalism, wants everyone to have free everything at the expense of everyone, and have everyone pay for dumb people's poor decisions when it comes to student loans. It's as close to a modern day socialist as you can possibly get.

- he's not against Capitalism. The version of it you have right now, however, everyone should be against.

- socialist ideas don't mean "free everything at the expense of everyone", but rather that everyone chips in according to means to improve the standard of life and provide a basic starting point and security for everyone. The US already has many socialist services already, you just don't call them that. So does most of the western, so very capitalist, world.

- you don't make stupid decisions re: student loans. The system is so fucked that if you have to get a loan, you're already screwed. Free education isn't giving something away at everyone's expense - it's putting your resources towards a better future for all. China has millions of kids who dream of being astronauts, and Americans want to be Youtube stars. Guess who prevails if nothing changes?

- trust me, Sanders is the bare minimum of a socialist. All the people in power in the UK and most of the richest countries in Europe are like mega-socialists compared to what he is proposing.

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[[ETM]]

I started writing before Irish posted, but I figured my word has to mean something, since I've lived in a socialist country all my life. It's been ugly and sad and great, and NONE of it had anything whatsoever to do with socialism.

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[Ezee E]

Now you're just red baiting.



We already paying more than that for the wars, the NSA, and ICE. So why not send money where it might do some good?

Either you guys are much, much wealthier than I thought (and you'll actually be effected by Bernie's tax proposal) or you're just parroting talking points from news radio.

PS: Germany and France have free and/or affordable public education at a university level. So did California up until very recently. Nobody thought them particularly "socialist."

PPS: If you really are this wealthy, can I have some money?

Bernie's Tax Plan

I'm by no means rich, but I have a good health insurance already. By following Bernie's plan and going into his version of healthcare, that'd be an additional $3k (close enough) out of my pocket.

[Ezee E]

The Vermont progressive's plans for College for All and removing student debt would be funded by a tax on Wall Street speculation, according to the list. Housing for All and universal child care and pre-K would be funded by the wealth tax on the 0.1 percent, or those making more than $32 million.

Sanders said an extension of Social Security benefits for low-income senior citizens and people with disabilities would be paid for by having the top 1.8 percent pay the same rate into Social Security as working families.

Sanders proposed getting rid of medical debt by implementing an income inequality tax on large corporations that pay CEOs at least 50 times more than average workers.

Good luck with that.

[Ezee E]

This is interesting though.

On October 14, 2019, Sanders unveiled an economic plan that would increase the corporate tax rate from 21 percent to 35 percent and mandate companies that either are publicly traded or have at least $100 million in either their annual revenue or balance sheet total grant workers 2 percent of the company's stock until employees own a minimum of 20 percent of the company. The Sanders campaign stated that the economic plan would "give workers an ownership stake in the companies they work for, break up corrupt corporate mergers and monopolies, and finally make corporations pay their fair share" and asserted that a Sanders presidency would end what he believes is corporate greed ruining the United States "once and for all".

[Dukefrukem]

- he's not against Capitalism. The version of it you have right now, however, everyone should be against.

But he is though. He doesn't like minimum wage (I've already said my piece before on this topic). He thinks warehouse workers should make the same as engineers. Most companies, including the mom and pop stores, wouldn't be in business if they had to increase the pay to everyone. And then when everyone is making the same amount of money, innovation deteriorates. Because what's the point? If that guy is going to be making the same amount of money as me, why do I bother working hard at all? This isn't Star Trek.

He thinks people like Jeff Bezos don't deserve their fortune. Companies like Amazon wouldn't exist under Bernie.

[Dukefrukem]

Bernie's Tax Plan

I'm by no means rich, but I have a good health insurance already. By following Bernie's plan and going into his version of healthcare, that'd be an additional $3k (close enough) out of my pocket.

Yikes. Never seen this before. This is shocking when put into real numbers.

[[ETM]]

Wow, Duke. Hard to even start unpacking all that. I keep thinking where America went wrong and how you cannot seem to find a way out of this crap, and every once in a while I get a reminder.

[Dukefrukem]

Wow, Duke. Hard to even start unpacking all that. I keep thinking where America went wrong and how you cannot seem to find a way out of this crap, and every once in a while I get a reminder.

What's the fuck is that supposed to mean? This of course assumes that America is broken in the first place, but apparently I'm responsible for all the wrong right now??

[Irish]

I'm by no means rich, but I have a good health insurance already. By following Bernie's plan and going into his version of healthcare, that'd be an additional $3k (close enough) out of my pocket.

This is the definition of "penny wise and pound foolish."

But: Under that site's info, my effective tax rate would go up 4%, or roughly $2,500.

I'd rather pay the additional two grand and not have to sweat insurance ever again, thanks.

(Doubly so if this means other people aren't getting gouged on simple shit like insulin and chemo.)

Most companies, including the mom and pop stores, wouldn't be in business if they had to increase the pay to everyone.

Yeah back in the day (pre-internet, I guess) people used to call these "bad businesses."

Like, your company's livelihood shouldn't depend on exploiting workers, which is what "most companies" are doing.

[[ETM]]

Edit: Responding to Duke, posting from the phone browser sucks.

That's precisely what I mean - everything is fine for you NOW, and you're convinced that it can be for everyone if only somehow they didn't screw themselves over, instead of pulling themselves by the bootstraps and becoming the next Bezos, because that is a thing that people can actually do? The greatest success of ramoant capitalism is definitely turning everyone against each other and measuring everything in life in terms of money.

[Irish]

And then when everyone is making the same amount of money, innovation deteriorates.

This is wildly untrue, btw.

He thinks people like Jeff Bezos don't deserve their fortune.

lol, c'mon, dude.