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Thread: True Detective (Season 2)

  1. #1
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    True Detective (Season 2)


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  2. #2
    Piss off, ghost! number8's Avatar
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    That was True Detectivey.
    Quote Quoting Donald Glover
    I was actually just reading about Matt Damon and he’s like, ‘There’s a culture of outrage.’ I’m like, ‘Well, they have a reason to be outraged.’ I think it’s a lot of dudes just being scared. They’re like, ‘What if I did something and I didn’t realize it?’ I’m like, ‘Deal with it.’
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  3. #3
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Very True Detectivey. I don't get the critics not liking it. It seems like they're only not digging it because there isn't a Rust Cohle, a character that I don't think can ever be replicated.

    Like last year, the focus is on characters that really have nowhere to go but down. North of Los Angeles, there aren't many Hollywood dreams here. They're squandered. I'm intrigued in each of the characters, and while the primary murder of last year's episode happens at the beginning of the show, the eerie feeling is all the same at the end. The stareoff in the bar, in which it seems Vaughn and Farrell are at the other ends of the bar, was well put together. The McAdams character hasn't been established very well yet, but she's playing it so well that I'm certain she'll be the standout, even if Farrell has the best material so far.

    I'm excited.

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  4. #4
    I thought the premiere was extremely compelling. My only concern is that they may have one character too many, but I'm willing to see how it plays out. I think both Farrell and McAdams are well-established thus far. Kitsch feels like the odd man out.

    The first season of TD didn't really get going until around Episode 4, so I'm not overly concerned about mixed reviews for the first three episodes.
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  5. #5
    Well, the first season started well and then shit the bed in the last two episodes, so I'll be all for the reverse (based on the mezzo-mezzo reaction to the first couple of episodes from critics).

    Mainly I hope it's because I like McAdams and hope she does well.
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    This was bad because it was unfocused.

    The first episode contained nothing to distinguish it from 10,000 other cop shows besides marquee movie actors and some nice photography. Every character element was a cliche of a 1,000 year old cliche (the gangster goes straight? burned out, the alcoholic cop?).

    I kept wondering why anyone would care about this stuff. Every other scene feels in medias res, and the writing does a bad job explaining why the dead guy is important, or what stakes are involved. Or why anybody is doing the things they're doing. (Show of hands? If Vince Vaughn gets screwed over in the next episode, do you care? Does that matter to anyone except that character?).

    The previous season declared itself right out of the gate. It contained some tired elements (oh joy, here's another story about a serial killer) but the characters and the dialogue forced the audience out of their complacency. It felt like it had something to say (in the end, it didn't, but nobody knew that yet).

    Season 2 feels like soap opera and bad neo-noir, like Salton Sea and City of Industry and a bunch of other movies nobody bothered to watch.

  7. #7
    Winston* Classic Winston*'s Avatar
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    I haven't decided yet Found the depiction of the Californian sprawl fairly compelling, and the disjointed meandering feel of the episode reflected that landscape pretty well. I'm uncertain about these characters at this point, especially Kitch's , but we'll see.

  8. #8
    Piss off, ghost! number8's Avatar
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    Oddly enough, the Kitsch character is the one mystery I found mysterious: why did the camera cut away after the offer, leaving it ambiguous if he accepted the blowjob? If the implication is he did, what does it mean that he's revealed to be secretly impotent? If he's impotent and actually innocent of the charges, why does he feel so guilty that he attempted suicide? I have so many questions about his dick.
    Quote Quoting Donald Glover
    I was actually just reading about Matt Damon and he’s like, ‘There’s a culture of outrage.’ I’m like, ‘Well, they have a reason to be outraged.’ I think it’s a lot of dudes just being scared. They’re like, ‘What if I did something and I didn’t realize it?’ I’m like, ‘Deal with it.’
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  9. #9
    Whole Sick Crew Benny Profane's Avatar
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    I can't think of one hook in the first episode that made me want to keep watching, although I will. Pretty bad job of setting up the story.
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  10. #10
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Hmmm.. I feel very little.

    I'm okay if the structure of this year proves to be significantly different from the last and things build in a way I don't expect, but right now, it just feels like Pizzolatto had his whole life to craft Season 1 in his mind, and here he had a few months and it's already showing. Typical sophomore slump / second album syndrome. But at least last time he had the (reportedly tumultuous) creative duality of Fukunaga crafting everything visually from the ground up. Here it just feels like Justin Lin is doing his best impression of what's been done previously, only with a new setting, and even then he won't be around after these two episodes, as the directors cycle every episode from here on.

    Also, these sort of visuals just don't look nearly as lush without Adam Arkapaw's exhilarating 35mm work being the canvas to capture them.

    Quote Quoting Benny Profane (view post)
    I can't think of one hook in the first episode that made me want to keep watching, although I will. Pretty bad job of setting up the story.
    Exactly the thought I had in most of the second half before the final scene. And then the characters came together and I was like, "OK? I can only hope these only moderately compelling characters are most interesting together" as the camera craned out to the California sunrise.

    And I really like Farrell, McAdams and Kitsch as actors, and think they did fine jobs, but they just seem to be given so little and spread so thin amongst other material that I don't feel anything like the surging excitement I did at the end of Fukunaga's premiere, and then his second and third sustaining that, with the ending of the fourth solidifying my love and devotion for the contained series til the end.

    This time around, I'm left thinking about how I plan on continuing, if I should bank a few episodes and catch up with them in quicker succession weeks from now, because I don't feel any urgency to see the next episode.
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  11. #11
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Not sure what to make of all the negative reactions. I enjoyed the episode. It wasn't amazing but neither was the premiere of the first season from what I remember. Sure, Cohle was a more idiosyncratic character than anyone in this, but I didn't tune in to watch Cohle, I wanted a different story.

    Continuing from number8's curiosity about Taylor Kitsch's dick, I am actually really curious about what McAdams tried to do in the off-panel sex scene. Did she try to finger fuck the guy or was I the only one who inmediately thought this?

  12. #12
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    Not sure what to make of all the negative reactions. I enjoyed the episode. It wasn't amazing but neither was the premiere of the first season from what I remember. Sure, Cohle was a more idiosyncratic character than anyone in this, but I didn't tune in to watch Cohle, I wanted a different story.
    For me I don't necessarily feel anything negative towards it as much as it just doesn't feel like it's done enough to feel like anything that can stand on its own or even compare yet. The first episode last time around delivered something new, with exciting and unique characters, and an incredible cliffhanger right out of the gate, all brought to life with the rare sort of directorial hand we see in TV in what Fukunaga brought to the table.

    After the first hour here, it just feels like a faded version of something familiar and too undefined to make much of it. And I'll add a "yet" because I do hold out hope.
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  13. #13
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    I don't remember True Detective being the "standout show" it was until around the fourth episode. Other then the creepy murder setup that seemed right out of Seven, I feel like it's right along the lines of this.

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  14. #14
    I actually watched the Season 1 pilot really recently. To me, it seems like people are romanticizing it just a bit. There's not a lot happening there besides some interesting imagery and some initial back-and-forth between Cohle and Hart. Certainly, it was more focused since we followed just Cohle and Hart, but from a narrative standpoint, it was not the most inventive thing in the world. Of course, what really sold it initially was the texture and tone of the series, which was owed deeply to Fukunaga. I think Lin has kept that spirit alive, though certainly there weren't many aesthetic flourishes in this first episode. Still, it felt "True Detective-y" enough to me, and I relished being back in that world.

    The criticisms that I'll agree with is that they did seem to introduce too many main characters and storylines and that they did a poor job of establishing the central murder. For example, I am not quite sure if the disappearance of that one woman's sister is actually supposed to be a "thing" this season or if it was merely impetus for McAdams to talk to her dad. As far as the central murder, I'd be lying if I said I understood anything about that at all.
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    Quote Quoting DavidSeven (view post)
    As far as the central murder, I'd be lying if I said I understood anything about that at all.
    He's an old dead guy who was being driven around with the Maltese Falcon.

  16. #16
    In the belly of a whale Henry Gale's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    He's an old dead guy who was being driven around with the Maltese Falcon.
    And his mere name was enough to make Vaughn throw that glass at the wall!

    But why are we still talking about this show! HANNIBAL WAS JUST CANCELLED.
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  17. #17
    Piss off, ghost! number8's Avatar
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    I've seen the confusion expressed on a bunch of sites and I'm wondering if people are lost because they're looking for something more than what's actually there? Because the way I understood it was really simple and presented in a linear manner in the first ep.

    The dead guy is the city manager who was supposed to be giving the presentation at Vince Vaughn's investors event but never showed up, which is why he was pissed. So he got Colin Farrell to look for him as a missing person. Instead his body ends up being found by Kitsch in McAdams' jurisdiction, which is why the three cops are going to work together. There's not much to it yet, really. All the other stuff with Kitsch and McAdams are unrelated so far.
    Quote Quoting Donald Glover
    I was actually just reading about Matt Damon and he’s like, ‘There’s a culture of outrage.’ I’m like, ‘Well, they have a reason to be outraged.’ I think it’s a lot of dudes just being scared. They’re like, ‘What if I did something and I didn’t realize it?’ I’m like, ‘Deal with it.’
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    Quote Quoting DavidSeven (view post)
    To me, it seems like people are romanticizing it just a bit. There's not a lot happening there besides some interesting imagery and some initial back-and-forth between Cohle and Hart. Certainly, it was more focused since we followed just Cohle and Hart, but from a narrative standpoint, it was not the most inventive thing in the world.
    I could not disagree more. There's an immense amount of things happening in the first season opener. It not only establishes almost every character and every plot strand, but does it in an organic fashion. The writing is tight and purposeful and focused, from the ground up. Structure to dialogue.

    The first episode was narratively ambitious, in the same way shows like Twin Peaks, 24, and The Shield were ambitious. The structure and setting were unique on television. Its flashback structure alone defies convention. It focused on the murder from the start, but every scene spun off tiny little mysteries that expanded the entire story's scope. It builds on the mystery and tension and then explodes with a final line of dialogue, offering a reversal on everything we've seen so far. It did all this in an organic fashion, with almost everything coming from the two lead characters, who were played by two actors totally in sync with the material.

    The second season opener feels like a shotgun blast. It's much more chaotic. It spins out a half dozen story threads and doesn't provide context for any of them. Nobody says anything that isn't plot based. It's like an awkward merger between Dick Wolff and Game of Thrones, where the interest comes from the occasional outburst of violence or outre sex and where the characters are more stock.

    The tail end of the first season became lazy, but it was never so lazy as the last five minutes as the S2 opener, where a major revelation happens purely by happenstance.

  19. #19
    Winston* Classic Winston*'s Avatar
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    The more I think about it, the more this season looks to be Pizzolatto's attempt at fully channeling James Ellroy rather than just using him as a reference. Each book of his Underworld USA trilogy are presented from the POV of three different tortured law enforcement officers, which would explain that choice.

    Plus the terse dialogue in contrast to S1's soliloquies, focus on the sleazy underbelly of California, vast political conspiracy brought to light by a bizarre murder, jabs at hippie ideology etc. Just needs some casual racism to complete the picture.

    Ellroy's books are more immediately exciting though.

  20. #20
    Whole Sick Crew Benny Profane's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting DavidSeven (view post)
    For example, I am not quite sure if the disappearance of that one woman's sister is actually supposed to be a "thing" this season or if it was merely impetus for McAdams to talk to her dad.
    Missing sister was the girl in the hotel with Kitsch, no?
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  21. #21
    What is best in life? D_Davis's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if the genre/setting is also dictating the different feel.

    If anything, True Detective is a pastiche, and each season is a pastiche of a different genre mixed with the police procedural.

  22. #22
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Benny Profane (view post)
    Missing sister was the girl in the hotel with Kitsch, no?
    I never made that connection and I'm suddenly wondering how right can you be.

    James Ellroy's novels did come to mind.

  23. #23
    I don't think they are intended to be the same person, unless that somehow becomes a twist later. I believe Kitsch and his girlfriend were in her apartment, not a hotel. Doesn't really make sense for a girl who's been missing for a month to already have a fully decorated apartment somewhere.

    EDIT: also, the James Ellroy thing is pretty interesting. Even in comparing it to L.A. Confidential, you can sort of see that a lot of the primary narrative elements from that are already present in this. He even touched on the celebrity aspect with the Kitsch/actress scene. I wonder if you can still call it "homage" if you crib the entire structure of something.
    Last edited by DavidSeven; 06-23-2015 at 06:58 PM.
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  24. #24
    Shocking Seductive Spiral Thirdmango's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting number8 (view post)
    I've seen the confusion expressed on a bunch of sites and I'm wondering if people are lost because they're looking for something more than what's actually there? Because the way I understood it was really simple and presented in a linear manner in the first ep.

    The dead guy is the city manager who was supposed to be giving the presentation at Vince Vaughn's investors event but never showed up, which is why he was pissed. So he got Colin Farrell to look for him as a missing person. Instead his body ends up being found by Kitsch in McAdams' jurisdiction, which is why the three cops are going to work together. There's not much to it yet, really. All the other stuff with Kitsch and McAdams are unrelated so far.
    I remember hearing them talk about the guy but I did not understand the bolded portion at all during the episode. I'm not sure if I missed it because I wasn't paying enough attention or I was just confused at who everyone was. I was also incredibly confused about Tim Riggins dick and I want to know now.

  25. #25
    What is best in life? D_Davis's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting DavidSeven (view post)
    EDIT: also, the James Ellroy thing is pretty interesting. Even in comparing it to L.A. Confidential, you can sort of see that a lot of the primary narrative elements from that are already present in this. He even touched on the celebrity aspect with the Kitsch/actress scene. I wonder if you can still call it "homage" if you crib the entire structure of something.
    It's pastiche, not homage.

    Season 1 was a pastiche of the new weird. Season 2, from what I read, is a pastiche of California Noir, and the setting seems to suggest it'll be in the vein of Charlie Huston's Ca. Noir trilogy (which was already a new-noir take on Ellroy et al.).

    Probably why there's been more than a few accusations of plagiarism thrown at the creator.
    Last edited by D_Davis; 06-23-2015 at 08:04 PM.

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