Avengers: Age of Ultron (Joss Whedon)

[Dukefrukem]

Kinda shocking- this didn't beat the first Avengers 3 days BO: 187,656,000 vs 204.

[[ETM]]

Destroyed the global numbers, though.

[Watashi]

The fight last night had a lot to do with it.

[Dukefrukem]

The fight last night had a lot to do with it.

Good call.

[Mal]

This movie felt like it would never end. [

Show Spoiler

Hawkeye should have died, not had a wife and kids. So fucking lame.

]

[Fezzik]

This was...ok. A little better than OK, in reality, but there were still a lot of problems.

The pacing was all over the place and the film never settled into a rhythm. Worse yet, several subplots seemed shoehorned/forced/out of place and it came across as corporate interference more than Whedon's ideas. Most specifically:

[

Show Spoiler

• Thor's little foray to the vision pool. Was that EVER mentioned in any other MCU movie before? It seemed completely out of nowhere.
• The romance subplot - although I disagree that Nat was "reduced" to a love interest, since she was definitely integral to the team during fight scenes, I felt it was completely unnecessary.
• Hawkeye's family - there for no other reason than to set up the "Hawkeye is going to die" fakeout. Cheap.

]

That said, the good that IS there is good enough that I enjoyed this. It just wasn't nearly as good or as confident as The first Avengers, GotG, Winter Soldier or Iron Man.

[Wryan]

I loved all the little cameos. I guess that's a major advantage to this cinematic universe they are cultivating. I think the Flippant Whedon Banter machine was a little overtuned this time. A lot of it didn't stick for me. Also, similarly, I liked Vision a lot, but Bettany was saddled with some incredibly portentous pronouncements. I swear to god I expected him to say, "Don't be upset it's over...be glad it happened" or some other similar horseshit. I'm not sure I understand the reason for all of Ultron's human quirks (he acts like he's already been living among humans for decades), though Spader had fun. I didn't see it in 3D cause I heard it was shit, but I disagree with the frequent comments about too much happening on the screen. I thought it had a nice frenetic play about it, sort of like the hyperactive child version of Tarsem's Immortals (http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/...fjleadljpg.jpg).

Does Vision...do that in the comics? I thought it was supposed to be a big deal when Captain America...does that, or something. Also, [

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how would Mjolnir even determine the worth of an A.I. being? Seemed too on-the-nose, an easy way to get people (Avengers/audience) to realize he's a Good Guy. I still liked him overall though.

]

Had fun, mostly.

[Dukefrukem]

No Vision never did that in the comics.

[TGM]

This was...ok. A little better than OK, in reality, but there were still a lot of problems.

The pacing was all over the place and the film never settled into a rhythm. Worse yet, several subplots seemed shoehorned/forced/out of place and it came across as corporate interference more than Whedon's ideas. Most specifically:

[

Show Spoiler

• Thor's little foray to the vision pool. Was that EVER mentioned in any other MCU movie before? It seemed completely out of nowhere.
• The romance subplot - although I disagree that Nat was "reduced" to a love interest, since she was definitely integral to the team during fight scenes, I felt it was completely unnecessary.
• Hawkeye's family - there for no other reason than to set up the "Hawkeye is going to die" fakeout. Cheap.

]

That said, the good that IS there is good enough that I enjoyed this. It just wasn't nearly as good or as confident as The first Avengers, GotG, Winter Soldier or Iron Man.

Heh, I actually thought that the romance and Hawkeye stuff were among the things that actually worked in this movie [

Show Spoiler

though the fakeout itself was pretty lame

]. Basically, anytime the action actually took a break and the movie focused on the characters is when this movie excelled. It's just that there's so much god damn action (too much god damn action, in fact), that it just drags the movie down, being blandly and incoherently cut and all over the place, and lacking in the kinds of moments that really connect with the audience that were present in the first film.

[Morris Schæffer]

I like it although it is clear now that no Avengers movie will ever make the heroes look like they're genuinely outmatched by their villains. Seems Thanos is next in line, but despite his arrogance in that 4 second clip at the end, it's gonna be business as usual. In other words, he's gonna get his ass kicked. Don't even bother big purple guy.

Some of the early action scenes, especially Iron Man vs. Hulk I didn't like all that much. It's definitely Michael Bay territory with a lot of noise and frenetic movement signifying oh so very little. Then they wanna evoke 9/11 and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Special effects are really, really good in the last hour. Overall a bit less than the original because some of that novelty has worn off, but I had a great time.

Hawkeye's wife, played by Linda Cardellini, is amazingly hot.

[number8]

Woof. Whedon continues to burn bridges, describes "unpleasant" relationship with Marvel. Apparently Whedon wanted Thor's cave scene cut, but Marvel execs insisted on it because it sets up Infinity War. They also wanted the dream sequences and the farmhouse scenes cut, but Whedon insisted on them.

Also, about the final line:

“I made sure we never shot him saying it, because I was positive some executive was going to go ‘Uh, you forgot to put in the last word,’” Whedon said.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/05...rs-marvel-cuts

[Sycophant]

As a pretty big outsider to this whole MCU thing, the negotiated readings and rationalizations I'm seeing from fans are kinda fascinating.

[Dukefrukem]

Not surprising the lamest thing in AoU wasn't Whedon's idea.

[Dukefrukem]

Woof. Whedon continues to burn bridges, describes "unpleasant" relationship with Marvel. Apparently Whedon wanted Thor's cave scene cut, but Marvel execs insisted on it because it sets up Infinity War. They also wanted the dream sequences and the farmhouse scenes cut, but Whedon insisted on them.

Also, about the final line:



http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/05...rs-marvel-cuts

When he says "Marvel execs" do you think he just means Feige?

I listened to that section and he doesn't sound very angry about the cave sequence and he's joking and making voices about the experience.

[transmogrifier]

I really disliked the dream sequences. I thought they were hokey.

[Rowland]

Anyone note how fugly this movie is? It's a desaturated teal-and-orange fest, with entire sequences comprised of no more than minor variations of the two color tones. Combine this with an increasingly standardized reliance on CGI to only halfway-convincingly animate entire shots and I often felt like I was watching an Xbox 360 cut scene.

[transmogrifier]

Yeah, it was pretty ugly. Whedon is no stylist in any shape or form. Not that it really matters if the story is halfway decent, or if the characters pop. Not the case here though.

I'm sick of the boilerplate "introduce the bad guy early and then track both camps to the inevitable showdown finale" - one of the best things about The Winter Soldier is that it is more or less a whodunit type thing. I want more of that...I've had enough of the random big bad.

[number8]

I wouldn't say shape or form, I like a lot of his directorial camera choices (although I'm thinking more of his TV work for examples of visual flourishes than any of his movies, which is ironic), but yeah, he's never made anything where the cinematography is great, and this is no exception.

[Dukefrukem]

So there's now 5 dislikes for AoU on MC which is 1 more than the entire lifespan of the Avengers. (64-4)

http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showth...-(Joss-Whedon)

Only 13 MCers have seen this?

[number8]

Mark Ruffalo just posted this:

I think it's sad. Because I know how Joss feels about women, and I know that he's made it a point to create strong female characters. I think part of the problem is that people are frustrated that they want to see more women, doing more things, in superhero movies, and because we don't have as many women as we should yet, they're very, very sensitive to every single storyline that comes up right now. But I think what's beautiful about what Joss did with Black Widow - I don't think he makes her any weaker, he just brings this idea of love to a superhero, and I think that's beautiful.

If anything, Black Widow is much stronger than Banner. She protects him. She does her job, and basically they begin to have a relationship as friends, and I think it's a misplaced anger. I think that what people might really be upset about is the fact that we need more superhuman women. The guys can do anything, they can have love affairs, they can be weak or strong and nobody raises an eyebrow. But when we do that with a woman, because there are so few storylines for women, we become hyper-critical of every single move that we make because there's not much else to compare it to.

So I know Joss really well. I know what his values are. And I think it's sad, because in a lot of ways, there haven't been as many champions in this universe as Joss is and will continue to be. And I know it hurts him. I know it's heavy on him. And the guy's one of the sweetest, best guys, and I know him - as far as any man can be a champion for women, he is that.

So it's been a little disheartening.

But I also see how much people love that aspect of it. There's an equal amount of people who find the love interest between Banner and Black Widow to be a big standout. And it's very satisfying to people. So it's a movie. People are going to have their opinions. And that's actually a great thing. The fact that this is a debate that's coming out of this movie is probably a positive thing.

I just don't think that people should get personal with Joss, because he really is - of anyone - an advocate for women. He's a deeply committed feminist.

[Irish]

Good god Disney must be freaking out

[TGM]

Only 13 MCers have seen this?

Nope, I still haven't settled on either a yay or a nay yet.

[DavidSeven]

I wouldn't say shape or form, I like a lot of his directorial camera choices (although I'm thinking more of his TV work for examples of visual flourishes than any of his movies, which is ironic), but yeah, he's never made anything where the cinematography is great, and this is no exception.

Yeah, I think Whedon can be strong with the camera. You can see the difference in his TV work over the work of others he's hired. Even Avengers 1, I thought had a more "present" camera than other MCU films, which I think helped set it apart. Didn't feel this one was as strong in that regard at all. An over-reliance on CGI to achieve shots was certainly a contributing factor. In general, I did not think this film looked good.

[DavidSeven]

So there's now 5 dislikes for AoU on MC which is 1 more than the entire lifespan of the Avengers. (64-4)

http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showth...-(Joss-Whedon)

Only 13 MCers have seen this?

I'm mixed.

[Dukefrukem]

For you guys who are mixed, does that mean you're not going to want to watch it again?