Kingsman: The Secret Service (Matthew Vaughn)

[Spinal]

I don't disagree with anything Spinal said, I agree. BUT the part that still bothers me about it (scratch that, its been too long, "bothered" me at the time), was that he was endlessly preached "Be gentlemanly gentlemanly gentlemanly!", and it just didn't seem to be. Seemed to go against everything the character was taught.

Well, sure, but he's also taught that being gentlemanly, according to Hemingway, is this:

"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self."

When the protagonist questions if he can be a gentleman with his lower-class accent, this is how his mentor responds. So, at the very least, the question of what constitutes a gentleman is up for discussion and adapts to suit each individual. This seems to be a common theme in stories like this. The mentee learns the rules, but also learns to bend them to suit their own personality. Arya Stark, The Bride, Po (Kung Fu Panda) ... etc. I would say more, but I'm conscious of adding to Irish's word count.

[Skitch]

I am going to watch this again. I'll be honest, I heard hints of people being offended at an anal something when I saw it the first time, and I was all prepped to laugh my ass off at how not offended I was. But then I just felt weird and put-off. I will re-evaluate.

[Irish]

I would say more, but I'm conscious of adding to Irish's word count.

I agreed with most of your reasoning (I just thought it was interesting/funny that you wanted to go into that level of detail).

I think the joke doesn't work because it was gross out sexual humor in a movie that wasn't about gross out sexual humor. I could see it work in a movie from the Farrellys or Seth Rogen, but not here.

It didn't help that the joke was proceeded by an overlong finale which was less "Bond parody" and more "action movie cliche." So it seemed to come out of nowhere. (If I have any problem with this movie, is that it does what a lot of other recent, modern parodies do -- it becomes the thing it's supposed to be lampooning. (Cf Wright's "Hot Fuzz" and "World's End")

[Spinal]

I agreed with most of your reasoning (I just thought it was interesting/funny that you wanted to go into that level of detail).

Oh, I definitely recognize the absurdity and knew I was setting myself up for mockery. But I do think that the question of why a joke works for some and not for others is an interesting one. I did try to be economical with my words, but I do think the joke is 'layered' - (I won't use the word 'sophisticated'. That seems a bit much.) - and not just a Rogen-style taboo breaker.

I think the joke doesn't work because it was gross out sexual humor in a movie that wasn't about gross out sexual humor. I could see it work in a movie from the Farrellys or Seth Rogen, but not here.

I mean, I guess it depends on the viewer's opinion of the sexual act in question. Certainly, the fact that it's something that will sharply divide the audience is a part of the joke's mischief. One person's gross-out is another person's .... something or other.

It didn't help that the joke was proceeded by an overlong finale which was less "Bond parody" and more "action movie cliche." So it seemed to come out of nowhere. (If I have any problem with this movie, is that it does what a lot of other recent, modern parodies do -- it becomes the thing it's supposed to be lampooning.)

You liked this movie! Or so I thought. And now you're arguing with me! Damn it, Irish!

[number8]

I don't even remember what joke you guys are referring to. This movie is so unremarkable and forgettable.

Several movies in, I am still trying to figure out what people like so much about Matthew Vaughn. And why do I keep watching his mediocre movies.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Didn't see Wanted or First Class, didn't much like Kick-Ass. Still surprised by how much I enjoyed Kingsman.

[number8]

He didn't do Wanted.

[Morris Schæffer]

Layer Cake he did do and I thought it was really good.

[Skitch]

I would say Layer Cake and Stardust were the best things hes directed so far, and Eddie The Eagle looks like it could be really could too but I haven't seen it yet.

[Sycophant]

That's a joke that trusts you are very familiar with options #1 and #2 and decides to amuse you by veering off in another direction that fits the rest of the film's gonzo attitude.

If there were an argument that would make the case for the joke to me, this would be it. It doesn't quite get there or my experience of the film, but reading it as an intervention in audience expectation and generic convention is the way to go.

[Dukefrukem]

He didn't do Wanted.

Did he do Eagle Eye? That movie was shitty too.

[Spinal]

I love the idea of blaming Matthew Vaughn for sub-par action movies, whether he directed them or not. I will never forgive him for Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter.

[number8]

I'm not even sure you did this on purpose, but Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter was directed by the director of Wanted.

[Spinal]

I'm not even sure you did this on purpose, but Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter was directed by the director of Wanted.

I did not, but that is hilarious.

[Dead & Messed Up]

He didn't do Wanted.

D'oh, mixing up my Mark Millars.

[number8]

Is this poster also an anal sex joke?

[Dukefrukem]

The new trailer for the sequel is phenomenal. It looks like it's really improving on some of the action. I like the idea of the American equivalent.