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Thread: Better Call Saul

  1. #1
    U ZU MA KI Spun Lepton's Avatar
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    Better Call Saul

    Full 2-minute trailer. Looks promising!!


  2. #2
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    Gilligan said at TCA that Walter & Jesse aren't in the first season, but "everything else is on the table."

    That feels like a mistake.

  3. #3
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    I think that allows the show to be more about Saul, and whatever story they're trying to tell. Good move to me.

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  4. #4
    And don't you know it ThePlashyBubbler's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    I think that allows the show to be more about Saul, and whatever story they're trying to tell. Good move to me.
    I think Irish may have meant the opposite, that any/all other direct references to Breaking Bad might hinder the show from standing on its own. Which overall in the premiere was not a problem, thought they did a great job. Until the end... A little worried by that development in the very first episode, but I'll trust these writers for now.
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  5. #5
    What is best in life? D_Davis's Avatar
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    Pretty great so far.

    Odenkirk is channeling his friend Larry David big time during his run ins with the parking attendant.

    Really hits the ground running. I'm wondering if the plan is a shorter run than Breaking Bad?

  6. #6
    U ZU MA KI Spun Lepton's Avatar
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    I was also a little put off by the cameo at the end of Ep1. I also trust the writers, so, we'll see.
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  7. #7
    What is best in life? D_Davis's Avatar
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    I don't think it's going to be a cameo appearance, though. Right?

    I mean, I'm pretty sure he's going to be a driving force in this season.

    Have people heard otherwise?

  8. #8
    U ZU MA KI Spun Lepton's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    I don't think it's going to be a cameo appearance, though. Right?

    I mean, I'm pretty sure he's going to be a driving force in this season.

    Have people heard otherwise?
    I haven't heard anything. I'm just worried about them using callbacks to BB as a crutch.
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  9. #9
    What is best in life? D_Davis's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Spun Lepton (view post)
    I'm just worried about them using callbacks to BB as a crutch.
    I agree.

  10. #10
    Bark! Go away Russ's Avatar
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    In Gilligan I Trust.

    Even without the big surprise reveal in episode 2, it was still a strong episode because of the entertaining narrative choices, juxtaposing standard exposition with things like the vending machine coffee montage, a great way to illustrate Saul's resolve to tough it out as a public defender. And even better, on the heels of the gruesome desert revenge, was Saul's recognition of his ill-proposed scam, knowingly shown against the backdrop of a smiling hooker, some crispy breadsticks, and set to the goofy strains of Esquivel's Boulevard of Broken Dreams (I thought it was a music video or extended commercial at first!).

    All this and lines like, "The only way this car's worth five hundred dollars is if there's a three hundred dollar hooker in the back!"

    Yeah, I'm in for the long haul.
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  11. #11
    U ZU MA KI Spun Lepton's Avatar
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    Okay, the second episode really eased a lot of worries. That was quite good.
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  12. #12
    What is best in life? D_Davis's Avatar
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    That montage towards the end of episode 2 was fantastic.

  13. #13
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    I feel like it's a car trying to get started. Just needs to turn the key one more time, and it'll be working just fine.

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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    That montage towards the end of episode 2 was fantastic.
    Which one? There were many.

    I am bursting with happiness about this show. The first episode was more surprising than good, but that's probably because I was expecting something much lighter for some reason. The way they handled Tuco's appearance was brilliant. It was like an exaggerated version of every scene he had in Breaking Bad.

  15. #15
    U ZU MA KI Spun Lepton's Avatar
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    Just incredible. So well thought-out and so well performed.

    I'm sold. I'm in for the long haul for Saul! Bahahaha ... haha .. ha ... ahem.

    I'm also extremely happy for Bob Odenkirk. My theory that comedians make the best dramatic actors continues uncontested.
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  16. #16
    I'm enjoying the show a great deal. I really admire Gilligan as a writer and I think that he and Gould (and the rest of the staff) are off to a great start here. It's nice to have this very specific mode of storytelling back in my life. It's visually superb, too.

    The third episode felt like the show putting a very distinct step forward. More generally, I think the character of Chuck is probably one of the most intriguing and valuable assets so far. McKean's performance has been really great. Odenkirk has been surprising me as well. As usual, Jonathan Banks is wonderful and I expect great things (Odenkirk was hyping an upcoming Mike-centric episode during a recent interview: "I know there's one episode with a great focus on the Mike character that is as dark as anything they've written [...] that, I've heard, is just a powerhouse"). I'm not sure about the rest of the cast yet. Although, I do think Nacho is a promising antagonist and Michael Mando is eminently watchable.

    Given Jimmy's characterization, I'm really curious about what, exactly, will propel him into the Saul Goodman persona. It will be very interesting to see how they pull that off in a credible and organic fashion. In Breaking Bad (spoilers), Saul proposed killing off at least three characters (Badger, Jesse [twice!], and Hank) at various points. For some reason, I find the friction between Saul Goodman's monstrousness and Jimmy McGill a little more disturbing than Walter White's descent. Maybe that's because Breaking Bad is over and I've long since acclimated myself to Walt's repulsive qualities, or maybe it's because Walt's darker edge felt pretty salient even early in the first season. Comparatively, Jimmy emerges as a much more sympathetic character here; his "Slippin' Jimmy" inclinations means that he's a bit of a scoundrel, yes, but he's also more demonstrably concerned about doing right. There's something like sweetness in Odenkirk's performance this time around, which is notably borne out in his conversations with Kim and his concern for his brother's well-being. There are definite shades of the occasionally raffish Saul, but Jimmy is clearly way less vile and far more likeable and decent.

    I mean, it's really hard to reconcile the guy standing out by that phone booth at night, nervously warning "Team Kettleman," with the man who will, in a few years, nonchalantly propose murdering three people without the slightest bit of compunction.
    Last edited by Gittes; 02-21-2015 at 02:59 AM.

  17. #17
    Quote Quoting Gittes (view post)
    In Breaking Bad (spoilers), Saul proposed killing off at least three characters (Badger, Jesse [twice!], and Hank) at various points.
    Oh, and there's also Saul's reference to two ex-wives, which I was reminded of after listening to the official podcast. Gilligan's response to this: "We want this thing to live and breathe [...] the trouble is, a lot of the stuff that was said as a throwaway line on an old episode of Breaking Bad, now we have to abide by. And that is its own special kind of hell."

    On another note, Gilligan and Gould have also heaped lots of praise on the two actors playing the Kettlemans (Julie Ann Emery and Jeremy Shamos). I can already see the comedic and/or off-kilter dramatic potential with them. Their scenes have been pretty great so far (especially at the end of episode three).

  18. #18
    Piss off, ghost! number8's Avatar
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    Four episodes in, I'm obviously as impressed with the craft as I was with BB, because the same people are working on it. The lines are just as funny, the directing just as intense (Michelle MacLaren on that second ep, boy howdy), the cinematography just as beautiful, and Odenkirk, as we all well know, is amazing.

    I just don't care for the actual plot of the thing. I don't care about this embezzlement family. I don't care about Saul's efforts to be their lawyer. I don't care about Tuco's pretty boy partner that seems to be Saul's only connection to crime. I'm not even sure what to make of his brother's mental illness. There doesn't seem to be a compelling hook to the show other than, "When did Jimmy become Saul?" Which never struck me as that interesting of a question to ask to begin with.

    I kinda... just want to see more of the broken, paranoid, Cinnabon manager?
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  19. #19
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Good point, and I agree fully. I'd rather see how Saul recovers from those events.

    We never saw his point of view during BB, so it's entirely possible all these people are still alive. Except Nacho, I'm sure he's dead, and I'm thinking Saul will manipulate Tuco into killing him for his own life.

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  20. #20
    Quote Quoting number8 (view post)
    There doesn't seem to be a compelling hook to the show other than, "When did Jimmy become Saul?" Which never struck me as that interesting of a question to ask to begin with.
    Personally, I think they're doing a pretty good job of turning that question into an interesting one by, for instance, showing us that Jimmy legitimately cares about being a decent person, and by surrounding him with good characters. He's a desperate careerist, but it's a careerism bound up in morality, family (Chuck), and friendship (Kim), and the expectations erected through all those channels. Saul Goodman is clearly a very grotesque version of the careerism we're seeing in these early episodes (which makes him, retroactively, a more tragic character). In other words, we're now being shown that Goodman is in stark contrast to the kind of potential (as a man, as a lawyer) that Chuck and Kim saw in Jimmy, and that Jimmy/Saul once saw in himself. So, I think they're setting up a pretty strong foundation here, as far as significant motivations, bonds, and loyalties are concerned.

    See, for instance, that tremendous scene in the nail salon with Jimmy and Kim, where they're discussing the billboard, etc. There's a specific kind of interpersonal tenderness there that wasn't found very often in Breaking Bad (the closest correlate is probably Jesse and Jane). Maybe this is because the affection feels more reciprocal here (i.e., Jimmy's comment about Kim deserving someone better than Hamlin), whereas Walt often felt like he was actively resisting anything resembling real, meaningful affection with his family. I also think Chuck has come across as a really promising and sympathetic character. I'm moved by his resilient sense of dignity and the way this is punctuated by such strange, psychic frailty. I also like the 'loving but critical older brother' angle, which I think is being handled really well.

    So, yeah: characters like Kim and Chuck have not only endeared themselves to me rather quickly, but they also inform and magnify Jimmy's failures in an interesting way. We've already met Saul, so we know Jimmy will ultimately disappoint these people. Yet the effective performances and characterizations, coupled with Jimmy's honest aspirations, has me interested in seeing the process of that failure.

    On that note, it seems like they're portraying Jimmy as being very much at the mercy of his own insecurities and bad habits, as well as a cruel and contingent universe that seems bent on defining him as a bad person (i.e., Nacho seeing Jimmy for what he apparently is and scoffing at his honest protestations [in episode 2], Betsy Kettleman telling him he's the type of lawyer that only guilty people hire [in episode 4], etc.). So far, these kind of aspects are helping to turn Saul's origin into a point of interest rather than an irrelevant footnote.
    Last edited by Gittes; 03-05-2015 at 12:17 AM.

  21. #21
    Second star to the right [ETM]'s Avatar
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    Quote Quoting number8 (view post)
    I kinda... just want to see more of the broken, paranoid, Cinnabon manager?
    Gilligan said we'll see more of him for sure.

    BTW, wasn't that Gilligan himself in the latest episode? As one of the people looking up in the billboard sequence?

  22. #22
    What is best in life? D_Davis's Avatar
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    So far, I'm finding Jimmy/Saul to be a far more interesting, nuanced, complex, and sympathetic character than Walt ever was.

    I didn't really like BB until S3.

    I've liked this since episode 1; of course a lot of that has to do with how much I ended up liking BB.

  23. #23
    I am just really not loving this. I'm barely even liking it. I don't know what you all see that I do not. Every episode takes me three attempts to get through because I fall asleep. There's no zip. There's no movement. There doesn't feel like a vision or a purpose for any of this. And I just don't care about anything that's happening because nothing really IS happening. I keep waiting for some sort of episode game-changer that pulls the focus together. Mike, maybe? Please?

    I continue to watch because I continue to hope that it gets its act together and if it does I don't want to have to catch up from the beginning. But I feel like every episode is a bit of a chore, even if there are a couple fun moments in some of them.

  24. #24
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    It's bad, but it's bad in interesting ways. There's a distinct lack of focus. Like somebody said "spinoff" before they had any ideas at all (interviews with Gilligan leading up to the premiere sorta bear this out).

    The show plays like Breaking Bad Lite and I'm fascinated to see them flop around while the audience runs in the other direction.

  25. #25
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    W... What? What are you guys watching?

    I'm loving this. Like Gittes says, the question of how Jimmy becomes Saul has done nothing if not become more layered and interesting.

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