The DC Animated Superhero Thread

[Dukefrukem]

I was getting tired of posting in the Man of Steel thread and I didn't want to put this in the TV section even though most of the discussion here for the time being will be around the various Animated Series, but we need a place to talk about X-Men TAS, Batman, TAS, Superman TAS and the spin-off movies.

I'm currently watching Justice League on netflix having finished Superman TAS, and the Legend episodes are fantastic.

I so desperately want a live action Seaboard City crossover movie now. Please Hollywood gods, make this happen.

I also was a little bit shocked by the inclusion of Hawkgirl (who I had never heard of before) and Martian Manhunter. Surely you could have found two more Justice League members worthy of including in this series? I don't like how they don't explain where Hawkgirl comes from. Is she an alien? Human? Are her wings real? Like WTF?


But overall, this series needs more Batman.

Completed:
Batman TAS
Superman TAS
Justice League
Justice League Unlimited


Next Up:
Batman Beyond

[EyesWideOpen]

Martian Manhunter is one of the core members of the Justice League (he was an original member in the comics) and pretty much the constant throughout the changes that go on with the roster. He most definitely should be included. He's also fucking awesome. As for Hawkgirl the creators said at the beginning they wanted to have a diverse cast so instead of Hawkman who is a more well known Justice League member they went with Hawkgirl. She is one of the more popular characters on the show.

[Gittes]

If you'll excuse the self-promotion, I guess I might as well post a link to my recent post on the Batman: The Animated Series episode, "Beware the the Gray Ghost,'' (and other Batman incarnations) before it fades into the forgotten back pages of the film discussion thread (just in case anyone missed it or is interested).

[Grouchy]

Yeah, Martian Manhunter is the Justice League. Hawkgirl is definitively an odder choice. The standard would be Aquaman.

[Irish]

Manhunter was cool. But: I've never seen a DC animated show that ever figured out what to do with him. The guy had like one story in the original run. After that, they made him Chief Bottlewasher on the station & turned him into Captain Exposition.

[Dukefrukem]

Manhunter was cool. But: I've never seen a DC animated show that ever figured out what to do with him. The guy had like one story in the original run. After that, they made him Chief Bottlewasher on the station & turned him into Captain Exposition.

They can't figure out what to do with him in the series either. He can turn invisible and make rockets shot at him go through him and he can sorta fly. But mostly he just stands around and uses his good logic when Superman isn't around.

[Dukefrukem]

Yeah, Martian Manhunter is the Justice League. Hawkgirl is definitively an odder choice. The standard would be Aquaman.

They ran into him a few times, but they 1) were not surprised by his existence under the water and 2) did not invite him to the league.

[Alex Weitzman]

Yeah, Martian Manhunter is the Justice League. Hawkgirl is definitively an odder choice. The standard would be Aquaman.

They deliberately didn't want to go that route with Aquaman, partially because it had been done before (Superfriends), and partially because the character had been perceived as such a joke (again, Superfriends). Their take on Aquaman, designed to make him much more badass, also made him much more of a non-joiner.

[megladon8]

I hold a lot of the DC animated stuff in pretty high esteem.

There's yet to be a live action superhero movie better than Mask of the Phantasm or Return of the Joker.

[Skitch]

Yay to this thread.

[Dukefrukem]

So I know these are "kids" shows, but what is it with WB/DC on not drawing female asses? Did they intentionally do this? Wonder Woman is wearing a leotard and yet when she turns around there's nothing there.

[number8]

Just wanted to add that Martian Manhunter and Hawkgirl are the focal point of two of my favorite episodes on the show.

[Alex Weitzman]

Just wanted to add that Martian Manhunter and Hawkgirl are the focal point of two of my favorite episodes on the show.

Don't keep us in suspense, you cad.

[Grouchy]

Don't keep us in suspense, you cad.

I'm guessing the Christmas episode and Starcrossed.

Hawkgirl was great in the show, by the way - a left field choice that paid off. I think Duke's complaint about MM's role as exposition delivery applies to the comic-books too.

[Dukefrukem]

I just watched an episode where they alluded to Hawkgirl being from another planet.

Also they recently used MM, where he transformed into a dragon monster, which shocked me since I hadn't seen him do anything other than fly, turn invisible and read minds.

And Bruce Wayne dancing with Wonder Woman is fantastic... with the best bookend ever.

Wonder Woman: "You still owe me a dance. "

Batman: <glares/pauses> "I don't know what you're talking about. "

[Dukefrukem]

I'm guessing the Christmas episode and Starcrossed.

Hawkgirl was great in the show, by the way - a left field choice that paid off. I think Duke's complaint about MM's role as exposition delivery applies to the comic-books too.

I'm 14 episodes away from the Christmas episode, and Starcrossed is the next episode after that.

[number8]

J'onn has another great moment, too, when he couldn't shut off his telepathy and went crazy (although the overall episode is just ok).

The show does deliberately power down a lot of the heroes in order to maintain a team dynamic in the action scenes (which comics, being more static and put more emphasis on dialogue during, need to do a lot less). In the first season, especially, Superman almost always flies in the front and then gets knocked down after one blast. Flash is always tripping on shit. Green Lantern can't do anything with the most powerful weapon in the universe except to shoot green lasers. Later episodes comment on this sometimes in moments of wink-wink self-awareness, but yeah, I believe the show is responsible for making a lot of casual superhero fans not realize that in the comics, Martian Manhunter is as strong as Superman on top of his shapeshifting/intangible/psychic abilities.

[Dukefrukem]

Starcrossed.

Oh man! So good!

Flash: "What about our secret Identities? I trust you guys but...."
Batman: Wally West, Clark Kent <pulls off cowl>, Bruce Wayne.

[Dukefrukem]

Just wanted to add that Martian Manhunter and Hawkgirl are the focal point of two of my favorite episodes on the show.

Having watched the series, I can understand why.

The episodes were Manhunter wants to become more in-tune with humanity, and leaves the JL, and shows up later as an old man was pretty great.

The love triangle between GL Vixen and Hawk Girl was also great.

One thing that has bugged me which is why I try to watch the series in chronological order. IN JL: Doom, we have Hal as Green Lantern now. Was there a movie or episode that is supposed to explain the passing of the ring?

And Manhunter gets poisoned- but I had to look up the effects of the poison and why that was such a big reveal in the movie. Is this explained anywhere?

[Skitch]

Just wanted to add that Martian Manhunter and Hawkgirl are the focal point of two of my favorite episodes on the show.

Definitely.

[Gittes]

There's yet to be a live action superhero movie better than Mask of the Phantasm

I watched this last night for the first time (I remember being so fascinated by this movie as a child and yet, somehow, I never got around to viewing it). Spoilers follow. There's a lot to admire here, but I'll get one glaring flaw out of the way: Andrea ably flips Bruce onto his back, prompting his surprise and vaguely condescending amusement, as well as a countermove, whereby Bruce quickly pins Andrea to the ground, lest the audience believe that a woman could be Bruce's combative equal. The kiss that caps this feat off is just one more dominating flourish, and it renders the whole encounter all the more risible. A conspicuously ridiculous outlier in a film that is otherwise pretty strong. Admittedly, the film kind of challenges the assumptions of this scene by poising Andrea as a formidable threat who can pass for Batman, but that just results in a kind of peculiar dissonance.

I still prefer Batman Returns, but Mask of the Phantasm is otherwise more or less worthy of the praise it received (Shirley Walker's contributions in those opening moments was a very auspicious start, by the way). I don't think I've ever seen another representation of Batman where the burden of his alter ego is given as much consideration, which is an idea that is taken to the point of abject desperation here, with Bruce bargaining with his parents for freedom from a life defined by trauma and vengeance. I recall similar ideas emerging in Batman Forever and The Dark Knight, though, but perhaps not as memorably.

The final confrontation is impressive, as well. At first, it reminded me of the ludicrous heights of a Power Rangers showdown or something, given the way the combatants dwarf the artificial cityscape. In retrospect, I like the way that the dilapidated city of tomorrow serves as a dramatic correlate for the failure of Bruce and Andrea's romantic aspirations. There's tremendous operatic power to be gleaned here, as the tender romance of Bruce and Andrea's flashbacks collide with a strikingly grotesque present, where a masked vigilante faces off against a deranged clown in a nightmarish "city" of unfulfilled promises.

[number8]

Grouchy with the top notch guessing.

[Skitch]

One of the best moments in the series.

[Dukefrukem]

I finished the 2 seasons of Justice League, now I'm going back and re-watching Batman TAS before I go on to season 3. I haven't seen some of these in 20 years. I love the animation.

[Dukefrukem]

So why wasn't the transition from Dick to Tim explained between season 3 and season 4 of Batman TAS. All of a sudden Robin is gone? and then Nightwing shows up in Episode 5 of Season 4. Did I miss something? Or was that intentional.