Game of Thrones (Season 4)

[Irish]

Finally some white walker developments.

I was trying to remember what season it was that had the zombie army marching as a closer. First? Second? Where did all those guys go?

Edit: what the hell, while some of you are here, why is Peggy so angry with Don again? For the life of me, I can't recall.

[number8]

Judging by reactions on FB and Twitter, that white walker scene wasn't in any of the books.

Most of the episode never happened in the books, apparently. The white walkers scene, Jon Snow's interactions with Locke (who is an original character created for the show), Bran's group ending up at Craster's Keep, Hodor getting stabbed.

It's funny seeing all the book readers freaking out because for once, they know nothing.

[slqrick]

The white walkers scene makes sense, but needs more follow up, I think Locke is a Roose Bolton spy, and that whole Craster's Keep scene was just awful.

In terms of the rape, this episode makes it pretty clear that the director really did think they shot in a consensual manner, because it just seemed like just another night of fucked up twincest to both characters, although they clearly wanted Cersei to gain an upper hand on Jaime this episode.

[number8]

I think Locke is a Roose Bolton spy

What do you mean? He does work for House Bolton. He took Jamie and Brienne hostage last season under Roose's orders. And the wedding episode had that scene where Roose tells Locke to find Bran and Rickon. He's at Castle Black because Ramsay told them that Jon Snow knows where Bran and Rickon are.

[[ETM]]

It's funny seeing all the book readers freaking out because for once, they know nothing.

Or do they? Someone noticed HBO Go put something in their information titles, and it basically blew up everything.

That is - if we consider "official" additional information to be canon, as it's all done with Martin's blessing.

[number8]

It's not just that. I assume we're going to see several episodes of show-exclusive material this season based around Jon Snow heading out to Craster's Keep and Bran & Rickon being there, which didn't happen in the books.

...Actually I just realized that saying these are new stories could be considered a spoiler [

Show Spoiler

since you know they're not going to die during "filler" events between the book canon events.

] I'm not even sure I'm using the spoiler tag correctly on this.

[Dukefrukem]

Finally some white walker developments.

Fuckin barely.

Can someone please remind me what happened to Osha?

[Dukefrukem]

I was trying to remember what season it was that had the zombie army marching as a closer. First? Second? Where did all those guys go?

Edit: what the hell, while some of you are here, why is Peggy so angry with Don again? For the life of me, I can't recall.

It was the season finale of Season 2 and why Season 3 was so damn disappointing.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Fuckin barely.

Can someone please remind me what happened to Osha?

She went with Rickon after he and Bran went their separate ways.

[Ezee E]

What are the readers going to do when the show passes up the books?

I guess I've never seen so much passionate stuff about making sure it matches the books for quite some time. It seemed like people were about to move past that.

The whole White Walkers thing seems so intentionally sparsed out that nobody really believes it's happening, even though it's truly a huge deal.

[Qrazy]

Fuckin barely.

Can someone please remind me what happened to Osha?

I'll take something over the nothing I got from the books.

[Wryan]

Well, the rape wasn't addressed. Either they're holding reaction to it back, playing it way subtle, or they truly fucked up and mis-played that scene. Alan Graves and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau's comments last week point to those involved completely misunderstanding the scene and what it portrayed.

Tonight Jaime was back to his sympathetic ways and Cersei's behavior toward him was no different than before last week. These were not characters recently involved in the violent exchange we saw last week. Is this this show's Landry/Tyra murder plot? Are we just going to have to pretend the rape didn't happen and chalk it up to their attempts to be shocking in the moment with no repercussions? If so, very very poor form from everyone involved.

In complete accord here. Everything I read makes it sound more and more like things got left on the editing floor or something. That moment was far from consensual, and this latest episode gives the [admittedly brief] impression that welp, life goes on, let's get back to the plot. Haven't read the books, but the impression I get from people who have is that what happened is so contrary to Jaime's character (who loves Cersei mucho and has done things to pretty clearly indicate his distaste for rape, like losing a hand protecting Brienne for one) that it flies in the face of logic for either of them to get over it seemingly so quickly. Similarly, that it would be a huge deal to Cersei in several ways. They can't just let this go and be done with it. They'll need to do something at some point.

[Qrazy]

I was getting Mad Men vibes from that scene. They won't talk about it for a long time and then they'll address it again way down the road.

[Derek]

In complete accord here. Everything I read makes it sound more and more like things got left on the editing floor or something. That moment was far from consensual, and this latest episode gives the [admittedly brief] impression that welp, life goes on, let's get back to the plot. Haven't read the books, but the impression I get from people who have is that what happened is so contrary to Jaime's character (who loves Cersei mucho and has done things to pretty clearly indicate his distaste for rape, like losing a hand protecting Brienne for one) that it flies in the face of logic for either of them to get over it seemingly so quickly. Similarly, that it would be a huge deal to Cersei in several ways. They can't just let this go and be done with it. They'll need to do something at some point.

I remember the sex scene in the book being quick, rough, dirty, with a tinge of desperation and not all that satisfactory for Cersei, but yeah, definitely not rapey like that show. As much as the show has tried to redeem Jaime (and it actually hasn't done that as effectively as the books, mostly due to time constraints), you do have to consider that everything he went through in the last season or two was to get back to Cersei and simply rebuffs for being too late. Not saying that excuses the rape at all, but it makes sense coming from a character who would push an innocent child out of a window and is resigned to remain in the kingsguard for life, despite his ability and position to do much more with his life, just to remain close to his sister-lover. I would've preferred the writers and directors owned that scene as rape and followed it up with something suggesting that was what actually happened. That said, I do have the same feeling as Qrazy that Cersei is holding it close to the vest and this may be addressed later.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I remember the sex scene in the book being quick, rough, dirty, with a tinge of desperation and not all that satisfactory for Cersei, but yeah, definitely not rapey like that show. As much as the show has tried to redeem Jaime (and it actually hasn't done that as effectively as the books, mostly due to time constraints), you do have to consider that everything he went through in the last season or two was to get back to Cersei and simply rebuffs for being too late. Not saying that excuses the rape at all, but it makes sense coming from a character who would push an innocent child out of a window and is resigned to remain in the kingsguard for life, despite his ability and position to do much more with his life, just to remain close to his sister-lover. I would've preferred the writers and directors owned that scene as rape and followed it up with something suggesting that was what actually happened. That said, I do have the same feeling as Qrazy that Cersei is holding it close to the vest and this may be addressed later.

Also, especially after this last episode, it almost felt like a breaking away moment for Jaime, both from his sister and from what the Lannister's stand for. He's standing up for his brother, going completely against his sister's wishes by sending Brienne to protect Sansa, giving Brienne the sword, trying to change his history in the King's Guard, etc. He seems to be severing his ties with his old life, and the rape can be seen as a last desperate act of connection that ultimately turned into the moment of realization that he is no longer part of this family. THIS DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE DECISION TO INCLUDE THAT RAPE (needed to stress that, since I still think the scene is a deplorable change in Jaime's character), but at least some sort of explanation as to why the scene was included.

[slqrick]

Hodor hodor hodor.

As a book reader, the new/extrapolated scenes were amazing in this episode.

[Dukefrukem]

These shows are getting painful. There's too much going on across this universe to care about any particular scene. The shows need to stick to 2 or 3 parties and follow up the next episode with the remainders. 5 minutes of screen time for some of the characters is not enough.

[number8]

Took me for a loop how the major bombshell of the episode was dropped so casually in the middle of a conversation, with no build up or follow through whatsoever. The David Simon approach to plot twists, heh.

That was some pretty fucking crazy reveal, though.

[Scar]

Yeah, I wasn't completely paying attention, and then it was: "Wait, what did she say?!"

[Dukefrukem]

Yeh suddenly Littlefinger is a major plot character.

[EyesWideOpen]

These shows are getting painful. There's too much going on across this universe to care about any particular scene. The shows need to stick to 2 or 3 parties and follow up the next episode with the remainders. 5 minutes of screen time for some of the characters is not enough.

I disagree completely. I love the way this show does storytelling.

[slqrick]

Yeh suddenly Littlefinger is a major plot character.

Nah, he has been the whole time, it's just that no one noticed because he's Littlefinger.

And agreed with EWO. If you have issues with the storytelling, I'm not sure why you're still watching after four seasons, because it's been like this from episode one, and it's not changing any time soon. I agree that sometimes it can get annoying that the characters are so far away from each other and you only get random check ups with one character versus another in any given episode, but it's the nature of Martin's story.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Littlefinger is easily the most evil motherfucker in Westeros.

[number8]

This season has been pretty limited in locations/storylines, actually. Season 2 and 3 jumped around way more.

We haven't even seen Gendry or Rickon all season.

[Dukefrukem]

This season has been pretty limited in locations/storylines, actually. Season 2 and 3 jumped around way more.

We haven't even seen Gendry or Rickon all season.

It has, but why bother showing us Arya last night... ? or Tarth? Extend the other scenes and leave these for other episodes.