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Thread: American Gangster

  1. #51
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    There's one guy in my class who has seen the film and I brought up this discussion with him.

    He described Frank Lucas with three main words: "cool", "awesome", and "badass".

    But whatever...I apologize if I was out of line in what I said. I assure everyone I have no racial prejudices. I was just misinformed about the film, and in a truely typical "meg moment", put my foot in my mouth.
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  2. #52
    pushing too many pencils Rowland's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting megladon8 (view post)
    There's one guy in my class who has seen the film and I brought up this discussion with him.

    He described Frank Lucas with three main words: "cool", "awesome", and "badass".
    What the movie is really about is why people like this guy from your class see Frank Lucas as being cool, awesome, and badass, the corruption behind this veneration, and how this manifested itself into the culture of gangsta misanthropy (which is itself dwindling in popularity, thankfully).
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  3. #53
    Piss off, ghost! number8's Avatar
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    My main problem was not with the glorification of Lucas' crime. The film can't be any more clear in portraying that what Lucas is doing is wrong, but it's just the fact that he's the default protagonist and that he cares more about his family than the "good guy" is what makes the film flawed.

    From my review:

    At certain points in the story, American Gangster is not so much a mob movie as it is a criticism of American wealth and the American dream of acquiring that wealth. Do you know what makes someone an American gangster, instead of just a gangster?

    Capitalism, of course. Pure American business ethics.
    A problem with gangster movies—and it has plagued the Corleones as well as Tony Montana—is that they tend to be idolized even though they are shamelessly bad guys. American Gangster is no different. While it’s very clear in portraying Lucas as a monster (including a montage comparing his family’s perfect Thanksgiving dinner to the destroyed families of his customers), it’s still a glorification of a black man’s success story in getting himself out of the ghetto, building an empire, providing for his family, and leading his neighborhood. There’s no denying how powerful of a temptation that can be as a role model.

    Amazingly, the film addresses that directly! “I took care of Harlem, and Harlem’s gonna take care of me,” Lucas says in the film, referring to the support he has from a community eager for Lucas’ charity. Likewise, his own sweet Church-going mother turns a blind eye to his bidness, so long as she gets to live fat. That is the fraud of Frank Lucas, and that is the fraud of man. How do you tell a philanthropist helping his community from a scumbag bribing future defenders? When it comes down to it, Frank Lucas is a one-man Enron, nothing more.
    The last shot, to me, says that whatever Lucas worked to build changes with culture anyway, and it expresses just how futile the American Dream is.
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  4. #54
    pushing too many pencils Rowland's Avatar
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    I think my biggest problem with the movie was its representation of the police force as being entirely corrupt, lead by an entertaining but one-note Josh Brolin as the mustache-twirling uber-corrupt cop.
    Letterboxd rating scale:
    The Long Riders (Hill) ***
    Furious 7 (Wan) **½
    Hard Times (Hill) ****½
    Another 48 Hrs. (Hill) ***
    /48 Hrs./ (Hill) ***½
    The Extraordinary Adventures of Adèle Blanc-Sec (Besson) ***
    /Unknown/ (Collet-Serra) ***½
    Animal (Simmons) **

  5. #55
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    What is with Josh Brolin's sudden break into the mainstream?

    Just this year he's been in 3 fairly big movies - before now he wasn't in too much.
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  6. #56
    Montage, s'il vous plait? Raiders's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting megladon8 (view post)
    What is with Josh Brolin's sudden break into the mainstream?

    Just this year he's been in 3 fairly big movies - before now he wasn't in too much.
    If Haggis' film counts, it is actually four notable films this year alone. Maybe people realized he could act?
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  7. #57
    pushing too many pencils Rowland's Avatar
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    It's nice to see a real manly man like Brolin getting some big roles. I'm tired of all the pretty boys.
    Letterboxd rating scale:
    The Long Riders (Hill) ***
    Furious 7 (Wan) **½
    Hard Times (Hill) ****½
    Another 48 Hrs. (Hill) ***
    /48 Hrs./ (Hill) ***½
    The Extraordinary Adventures of Adèle Blanc-Sec (Besson) ***
    /Unknown/ (Collet-Serra) ***½
    Animal (Simmons) **

  8. #58
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    Oh I'm definitely not complaining at all - I really like Brolin.

    I just find it surprising that he suddenly has all these mainstream roles, when before he seemed to be fairly unknown in the mainstream scheme of things.
    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

    "Rick...it's a flamethrower."

  9. #59
    pushing too many pencils Rowland's Avatar
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    In interviews, he has cited Robert Rodriguez as the principle conduit towards helping him get better roles, which is cool.
    Letterboxd rating scale:
    The Long Riders (Hill) ***
    Furious 7 (Wan) **½
    Hard Times (Hill) ****½
    Another 48 Hrs. (Hill) ***
    /48 Hrs./ (Hill) ***½
    The Extraordinary Adventures of Adèle Blanc-Sec (Besson) ***
    /Unknown/ (Collet-Serra) ***½
    Animal (Simmons) **

  10. #60
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Rowland (view post)
    In interviews, he has cited Robert Rodriguez as the principle conduit towards helping him get better roles, which is cool.

    Yes, it is.

    And I like what you said about his looks being more man-like. I, too, grow tired of the boyish looks of so many Hollywood stars.

    On a similar note, I liked that in Gone Baby Gone, even the actors who - when dolled up - could be considered "gorgeous", were made to look very normal. Casy Affleck is so incredibly pale and skinny he looks sickly, and Michelle Monaghan looked, again, very average. None of the supporting characters were particularly wonderful looking either - many of them, in fact, were quite ugly.

    I realize the draw and appeal and in many ways need for great looking Hollywood stars, but at the same time I really appreicate it when a movie comes out that doesn't use the actors' stunning physical shape to keep the audience's attention.
    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

    "Rick...it's a flamethrower."

  11. #61
    Quote Quoting megladon8 (view post)
    On a similar note, I liked that in Gone Baby Gone, even the actors who - when dolled up - could be considered "gorgeous", were made to look very normal. Casy Affleck is so incredibly pale and skinny he looks sickly, and Michelle Monaghan looked, again, very average.
    Overall, I agree with what you're saying, except for what you're saying about Michelle Monaghan. In the midst of all these people who aren't striving to show their best side, she was almost distractingly good looking. But that's probably just how she is in the day-to-day.

  12. #62
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    Quote Quoting Sycophant (view post)
    Overall, I agree with what you're saying, except for what you're saying about Michelle Monaghan. In the midst of all these people who aren't striving to show their best side, she was almost distractingly good looking. But that's probably just how she is in the day-to-day.

    I do find her very beautiful, but I think she definitely "toned it down" for the movie.

    I think you're right - she is just a naturally good looking person, so they'd have to sort of go out of their way to make her look ugly.
    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

    "Rick...it's a flamethrower."

  13. #63
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Casey Affleck seems like a pretty boy to me.

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  14. #64
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    Casey Affleck seems like a pretty boy to me.

    Yes, but like I said in my post, they made him very un-pretty boy.

    He's very skinny, has incredibly pale complexion, and generally doesn't look too healthy.
    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

    "Rick...it's a flamethrower."

  15. #65
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    Zaillian's screenplay is a bit too surface-y so that this feels like one big rise-and-fall trope, with one huge false story equivalency in that Crowe's half shouldn't get as much an equal split as Washington's. Both of them are great in the roles though, the latter so charismatic while still retaining a monstrous side, the former appealingly prickly in his pragmatic hard-assedness. And Scott, being the ultimate craftsman, keeps things running smooth and the propulsive momentum going so this still feels breezy enough even with its long running time. Then again, considering the subject matter at hand and potential dramatic weight, maybe "breezy" is entirely the wrong kind of thing for this film to be. 7/10
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  16. #66
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    Quote Quoting Rowland (view post)
    I think my biggest problem with the movie was its representation of the police force as being entirely corrupt, lead by an entertaining but one-note Josh Brolin as the mustache-twirling uber-corrupt cop.
    Considering past and modern day police brutality and the murder of POC by the police, this post makes me smh. And oh yeah, there was this 1970s movie called Serpico. Based on a true story.
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  17. #67
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    Quote Quoting Rowland (view post)
    What the movie is really about is why people like this guy from your class see Frank Lucas as being cool, awesome, and badass, the corruption behind this veneration, and how this manifested itself into the culture of gangsta misanthropy (which is itself dwindling in popularity, thankfully).
    This post I agree with. Lucas is not a hero, and I also agree with number8's post. However I still think this is a great, well made film. One that probably revived Scott's career.
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  18. #68
    Here till the end MadMan's Avatar
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    This film had a fantastic cast, btw.
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