The Book Discussion Thread

[Mara]

In a major compromise for my book group, we read The Walk by Richard Paul Evans. I've somehow avoided reading anything by him up to this point.

I expected it to be bad. But I was unprepared for how absurdly, horrifically bad it was. It may be the worst book I've ever read. I was furious about it, and if I hadn't been able to read the whole thing in about two hours, I probably would have just chucked it.

I'm 99% sure that my crazy sickness of the last 48 hours was food poisoning, but I can't discount the possibility that it was just a biological reaction to how awful this book was.

[dreamdead]

In a major compromise for my book group, we read The Walk by Richard Paul Evans. I've somehow avoided reading anything by him up to this point.

That summary from his website does not look good.

Last year my "Why is this book popular?"" read was Sapphire's Push. This year it will be Kathryn Stockett's The Help. I'd like to believe that it'll be better, but I have no high expectations...

[D_Davis]

Started Lansdale's latest Edge of Dark Water. It's one of his more mainstream, genre-lite offerings, similar to The Bottoms and A Fine Dark Line. I'm liking it so far, but it contains one of pet peeves when it comes to first person narrative. The main character is 16 old girl, living in the river-bottom land deep in East Texas. She mentions that she's not educated, and can only write a little.

So who is writing the book?

I just don't believe that a character like her would take the time to write a 400 page novel. And even though her language sounds authentic (Lansdale is the modern master of affected, rural, and folksy language), her grammar and spelling are impeccable!

This kind of thing bugs me a bit.

[Mara]

Last year my "Why is this book popular?"" read was Sapphire's Push. This year it will be Kathryn Stockett's The Help. I'd like to believe that it'll be better, but I have no high expectations...

Oh, no, it's not good. It's not worthless trash, but there's no reason to read it. I was bored, annoyed, and slightly offended the entire time.

[D_Davis]

Do you guys read books like the novelization of Precious based on the novel Push, by Saphire Push and The Help in order to stay connected to popular general lit culture, or because you think that they might be good?

[dreamdead]

Do you guys read books like the novelization of Precious based on the novel Push, by Saphire Push and The Help in order to stay connected to popular general lit culture, or because you think that they might be good?

For me, on some level, it's to determine how facile the general public treats race and racism. If books like Push are raised up by the general public to proclaim that we're beyond such discrimination, then there's a problem since the text is very myopic about its representation of culture. I'm wary of The Help, but I also recognize that many of the masterpieces of the early twentieth century were those by popular writers like Fitzgerald and Hemingway. I'd like to believe that the general public could still support a text with as much sophistication as those writers, at their best, had.

I've also been getting intrigued by Colson Whitehead's The Intuitionist, for example, but I expect that novel to be legitimately well developed and thorough in its treatment of race.

[D_Davis]

For me, on some level, it's to determine how facile the general public treats race and racism. If books like Push are raised up by the general public to proclaim that we're beyond such discrimination, then there's a problem since the text is very myopic about its representation of culture. I'm wary of The Help, but I also recognize that many of the masterpieces of the early twentieth century were those by popular writers like Fitzgerald and Hemingway. I'd like to believe that the general public could still support a text with as much sophistication as those writers, at their best, had.

Cool.

I'm always curious about why people choose to read those kinds of books, and totally not in a judgmental way.

[number8]

Curious about what you guys think of this.

Is it ethical?

[Lucky]

I think it's ethical. If people are that stupid that they want to invest in this product, so be it. This seems to be a concurrent theme throughout history with entertainment literature, fan fiction is just the modern way. Check out ancient Roman comedy playwrights, for instance. They all used stock characters, similar plots, and sometimes the exact same characters would appear in others' works. Again, if the audience is willing to be entertained by the exact same story, have at it.

[Lucky]

To a lesser extent, you could make a similar argument for standard romantic comedies. That's probably the closest example we have to this at the moment. Audience goes into the movie (play in the old days) knowing exactly what characters and supporting characters to expect and precisely how it will end up.

This latest example just takes it up a notch. And a large one at that.

[Mara]

Do you guys read books like the novelization of Precious based on the novel Push, by Saphire Push and The Help in order to stay connected to popular general lit culture, or because you think that they might be good?

My book group chose it. I don't think I would have read it on my own. Sometimes I read popular books with the mistaken idea they might be good, often because a friend or relative recommends it. Sometimes a positive print review deceives me. (I'm looking at you, Girl with a Dragon Tattoo.)

[D_Davis]

So after getting past my niggles (and being ultra critical on Lansdale simply because I want to always expect great things from him (because he a capable of very great things)) I am enjoying Edge of Dark Water a great deal. If there is one thing I know in this world, it's that Lansdale can spin one hell of a yarn, and when he's neck deep in that East Texan dialect and atmosphere, he's a nigh-unstoppable literary force.

[dreamdead]

I found Amy Tan's The Joy Luck Club quite affecting by the novel/collection's end. There's a brief spell where things seem circular and all of the daughters seem to experience the same basic breakdown of marital happiness, but as the last set of narratives role in Tan really distinguishes these characters. The chasms of loss that June feels for her mother, especially as she recognizes too late what her mother wanted for her, is heartbreaking, as is the final scene that closes the text. And many of the narratives display this same struggle for independence regardless of the mother/daughter generation, and it's Tan's expert handling of these scenes that I'll ultimately remember.

[Mara]

I read The Joy Luck Club in high school and remember almost nothing except the story told in flashback about the red candle, which I still recall vividly.

[D_Davis]

Edge of Dark Water, by Joe R. Lansdale

In Edge of Dark Water, Joe R. Lansdale treads the all-too familiar territory that he previously ventured into with The Bottoms, A Fine Dark Line, and All The Earth, Thrown to the Sky - only it's not as good as even the lesser of those. It lacks the social impact of The Bottoms, doesn't have half the heart as A Fine Dark Line, and the adventure seems more insignificant than All the Earth.

Right off the bat I had some trouble with the novel. Most importantly, the POV character seemed like an odd choice to me. I still don't understand why Lansdale wrote from the POV of a teenage female, especially since she's a total tomboy and basically acts like a dude. There is a perfectly good male character that would have made a much more interesting POV character (especially given Lansdale's ability to write about persecution, of both the racial and sexual varieties). Also, I don't believe for a moment that the main POV character would have, or could have written such a tale.

If it sounds like I'm being ultra-critical, it's because I am. From many other authors, this thrilling offer would rank among their best. It's well written (above niggle aside), and contains many examples of Lansdale's expert ear for regional dialog, and he creates some truly harrowing moments. There's a chase down a river that is truly something special, and I thought the novel was going to turn into something great at this point - it did not.

Truth is, I expect more from Lansdale, and I want him to return to greatness; I truly believe that he is a National Treasure, easily on par with Mark Twain and Flannery O'Conner when it comes to southern-fried lit. It seems to me as if Lansdle has lost his edge, or that he needs to find some new inspiration. There is an old saying that one should write what one knows, but I think it'd do Lansdale some good to venture outside the boundaries of East Texas and the south. I know he still has it in him, but I can't help but accuse him of being a bit lazy, and relying too much on what he knows. There was a time when Lansdale was pushing the boundaries of thrilling fiction - he once started where every author would stop.

That's no longer the case, and thus I'm left feeling disappointed, even if the work isn't necessarily bad. I want the King to return, and I hope he does. At least the Hap and Leonard novels are still good, and I do have Devil Red still on my to read shelf.

[Mara]

I finished Brideshead Revisited and feel positive about it. In the subgenre of "Rich Aristocratic Alcoholic English People Who Hate Their Spouses"-- is that a subgenre?-- anyway, as far as RAAEPWHTS goes, this one has some surprising heft, mostly because it's not afraid to call out the characters on the ugliness of their lives, and because it mixes some serious discussion of Catholicism into the normal level of self-hatred. I was, however, annoyed by the random plot structure that abandoned the most vibrant and interesting character halfway through the book and then never really returned to him.

Meanwhile, I picked up what I thought would be a light-as-air audiobook while I was waiting for the one I really wanted to read, and have found myself surprisingly emotionally distressed about it. The book is Why We Broke Up by Daniel Handler, AKA Lemony Snicket, and it's a YA book about a high school romance. BUT I'M TOTALLY SHAKEN UP BY IT AND WANT TO DISCUSS IT. I'll probably write up full thoughts when I finish it, which should be shortly.

[fvr]

Curious about what you guys think of this.

Is it ethical?

humbly,
I think it's not ethical, because it's lowering the already-low-to-begin-with bar.
If this goes, why shouldn't anything else for that matter?
What's to stop anybody to spur gossip stories into movie plots, the gossip magazines sell also, don't they?
ritch:filthritch:

[Spaceman Spiff]

Recommend me some little known but well written absurdist works in the vein of Kafka, Camus or Gogol. Bonus points if the book is dry and droll while remaining disturbing/creepy.

Much appreciated.

[Irish]

Recommend me some little known but well written absurdist works in the vein of Kafka, Camus or Gogol. Bonus points if the book is dry and droll while remaining disturbing.

Much appreciated.

The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov.

I Served the King of England and Too Loud a Solitude by Bohumil Hrabal.

[Milky Joe]

Beckett's Trilogy, Molloy, Malone Dies, and The Unnamable

[fvr]

The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov.

Best book ever !
Also, try Magus by John Fowles, although is not so much in the same lines, it provides a good, somewhat ecstatic, unexplained chain of evens.

[Irish]

Best book ever !
Also, try Magus by John Fowles, although is not so much in the same lines, it provides a good, somewhat ecstatic, unexplained chain of evens.

Magus is a good suggestion. I'm not sure it fits the criteria of absurdist, but man... What a weird f'ing book. :lol:

[Melville]

Have you read all of Kafka? Of his less-famous short stories, I most liked The Burrow, The Judgement, A Country Doctor, and Blumfeld, an Elderly Bachelor.

Dostoevsky also has some absurdist short stories. The Crocodile is hilarious. The Double might qualify, and it's awesome.

Quadraturin by Krzhizhanovsky is very Gogol- and Kafka-esque. Presumably, his other short stories are as well.

Bernhard's books have some of the same absurd and agitated psychology, but not really the fantastical events. Concrete and Correction were both good.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Cheers Irish. The Bulgakov is closer to what I had originally envisaged/wanted, but all 3 books sound interesting.

Milky Joe: I tried getting into Molloy a year (or two) ago and for some reason it didn't grab my interest, and I stopped maybe a third of the way through. I love Beckett in theory, and his ideas and thematic concerns are all terribly interesting, but for some reason I can't get into his prose. I'll give it another go though because somebody like Beckett just has to click with me.

fvr: This sounds weird alright, but not exactly the kind of weird I'm looking for. I want something either harrowingly creepy or terrifying in a kind of absurdist way. Very dark humour is also appreciated. This sounds more like 'surrealism' or possibly 'magical realism' which is also cool but not nearly as much of my kind of thing. I could be wrong though, and I'm open to persuasion.

Melville: I've read nearly all of Kafka but not Blumfeld or an Elderly Bachelor (they are not in my Kafka compilation I guess). I'll check these out.

Dostoevsky is actually a good shout. I've only read Notes, Crime and Punishment, and I've never actually finished Brothers K, but I'll certainly get around to that at some point soon. Might have to start over though. It's been a while.

I actually have a compilation of Krzhizanovsky's works and Quadraturin is indeed one of my favorites. He's another writer who completely speaks to me thematically, but formally he's no Kafka (or Camus).

As for Bernhard, I've never even heard of him so much obliged.

---
Basically to further explicate what it is that I want: I want a novel (the shorter the better - heh) with an almost choking atmosphere of dread, where the protagonist is essentially unable to understand or deal with the plot at hand, either through the uncaring nature of the world he inhabits or due to his uncontrollable/bizarre/absurd psychology. I've just re-read 'Ice' by Anna Kavan and it's possibly my favorite book of all time because it totally and perfectly embodies the kind of atmosphere I'm searching for. If you have any obscure film recs that fit with this admittedly very precise rubric, I'd greatly appreciate those too.

[Benny Profane]

Basically to further explicate what it is that I want: I want a novel (the shorter the better - heh) with an almost choking atmosphere of dread, where the protagonist is essentially unable to understand or deal with the plot at hand, either through the uncaring nature of the world he inhabits or due to his uncontrollable/bizarre/absurd psychology.

These may be obvious suggestions, but:

Catch 22
The Crying of Lot 49