The Book Discussion Thread

[Mara]

I found the incredible dullness even more disturbing.

And that.

[Qrazy]

I remember very little in The Sun Also Rises aside from the bullfighting.

[Derek]

I remember liking The Sun Also Rises, but perhaps I liked boredom and disliked Jews when I was younger. Hemingway is way overrated, though Old Man and the Sea is the shit.

[Qrazy]

I think A Farewell to Arms is quite a strong work.

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I'm reading the second book in the Song of Ice and Fire series. It's an enjoyable read and I'll continue through the series but overall I can't say I'm really that impressed (with the writing or the character portraits or the world building). I definitely wouldn't say this is better than Lord of the Rings or Wheel of Time or a number of other fantasy series.

I can definitely see why HBO picked it up though. It fits right into the glove of copious amounts of sex and violence that that network prides itself upon.

I like Arya, Jon and Tyrion chapters the most. I'm sure the Daenerys and Bran storylines are building to something epic but I can't say I give two shits about them right now.

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On a completely different note I wonder when they're going to do a Redwall film adaptation.

[D_Davis]

Yeah, LOTR and just about every other fantasy I've read or tried to read >>>>>>> ASOIAF

ASOIAF is historical soap opera. Ugh. I can't understand the love for those books. They're like fantasy for people who don't read a lot of fantasy.

But then again, I can't even get past the first 100 pages of the first book, so it's just not for me. No biggie.

I'll take Dunsany and McDermott any old day.

[D_Davis]

On a completely different note I wonder when they're going to do a Redwall film adaptation.

I'd like to see a good film series of these. I only read the first three, but I really liked them when I was in high school.

[Qrazy]

I'd like to see a good film series of these. I only read the first three, but I really liked them when I was in high school.

Yeah same, I haven't read them since so I can't say if they hold up or not but it was a pretty cool world. I read a bit deeper into the series and there were somewhat diminishing returns after a point but every once in a while it would return to form.

[Winston*]

There are some interesting passages in Robinson Crusoe, but omg they are few and far between.

[Ezee E]

There are some interesting passages in Robinson Crusoe, but omg they are few and far between.

This. Had to write a huge paper on it and high school, and oh, it was tough.

[Mara]

There are some interesting passages in Robinson Crusoe, but omg they are few and far between.

I read it because I liked Moll Flanders so much, but I thought it was pretty much poo.

[Derek]

They're like fantasy for people who don't read a lot of fantasy.

Maybe this is why I'm enjoying it. Only 150 pages in so can't say much yet, but I already like it more than The Hobbit (never read LOTR) which was alright, but not particularly exciting.

[D_Davis]

I tried twice, and couldn't get past the first 150 pages of ASOIAF. I was like, "OK, when does the fantasy start? This is just historical soap opera. Where's the "otherworldlyness?" Where is the "fantastique?" And then from what I've gathered reading about the books, the show, and what the fans really like, it's basically a bunch of violence, sex, and politics.

Just not my kind of fantasy.



Ever read Lord Dunsany? Probably among the best writers ever in any genre. I'd be surprised if anyone really into English literature didn't like Dunsany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_...ron_of_Dunsany

I'd encourage anyone who thinks that they don't like fantasy, or people who haven't explored pre-Tolkien fantasy, to explore the works of Lord Dunsany. He's poetic, elegant, imaginative, and even somewhat erotic, or at least highly romantic.

A lot of it is in public domain, so you can read it for free digitally. Also, a lot of the really, really great fantasy isn't epic - it's mainly told in short stories and novellas, or shorter novels, and not in long series. Epic fantasy is usually a huge turn-off for me.

If you're ever interested let me know, and I can put together a top 10 list of non-Tolkien fantasy for you to check out.

[Qrazy]

I tried twice, and couldn't get past the first 150 pages of ASOIAF. I was like, "OK, when does the fantasy start? This is just historical soap opera. Where's the "otherworldlyness?" Where is the "fantastique?" And then from what I've gathered reading about the books, the show, and what the fans really like, it's basically a bunch of violence, sex, and politics.

Well, to be fair to the author, Martin actually takes a fairly novel approach here. I'm only 2/3's through the second book but my sense is that the angle of the series is as follows. He's created a world where the fantastical is part of the history and lore of his characters, but the world has lost these things. It's basically just a medieval world and characters speak of the ancient history of the land as of myth. However, by the end of the first book and into the second and I can only assume beyond that given the trajectory of the work... the story is about the fantastical returning to this world and these characters coming to grips with that new reality. So the fantasy does come but very gradually. It's still coming gradually well into the second book. I expect it to kick into high gear in the third or so.

I would suggest you watch the series instead of reading the first book. It's fairly well acted and put together.

The politics I find somewhat interesting but Martin's basically just cribbing Daes Dae'mar from Jordan's Wheel of Time. Although Jordan's Game of Houses is much more complex and compelling to me personally.

I do find the sex and violence in Game of Thrones gratuitous though. The ugliness of the content could be expressed in a much less nasty manner and retain it's power in my opinion. All in all I think it's a pretty solid narrative but as I said earlier, the character portraits, world building and general calibur of the writing don't impress me much.

[Qrazy]

Maybe this is why I'm enjoying it. Only 150 pages in so can't say much yet, but I already like it more than The Hobbit (never read LOTR) which was alright, but not particularly exciting.

Lord of the Rings is substantially more interesting than The Hobbit. But Thrones is certainly more immediately gripping. Lord of the Rings and Wheel of Time are about vast world building with moments of gripping narrative. ASOIAF is about narrative first and foremost.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I tried twice, and couldn't get past the first 150 pages of ASOIAF. I was like, "OK, when does the fantasy start? This is just historical soap opera. Where's the "otherworldlyness?" Where is the "fantastique?" And then from what I've gathered reading about the books, the show, and what the fans really like, it's basically a bunch of violence, sex, and politics.

Just not my kind of fantasy.

It would help if you dropped your preconceived notions about what "fantasy" is and how the book should be written and instead just take it at face value as a novel.

This is why "genre," and an attachment to it, kind of drives me nuts.

[D_Davis]

I don't have any preconceived notions, I just didn't like it - not my thing.

I also don't think it is particularly well-written, imaginative, or inventive; from my experience with it, I thought it was poorly executed.

I know I'm the minority, and usually am with these kinds of things. It's all good.

It's OK to prefer things, and I prefer my fantasy to be more fantastical, otherworldly, poetic, and exotic. I didn't get any of that in what I read of Game of Thrones.

You know, something more Dunsanian.

No big deal! There are hundreds of other books for me to read and enjoy! I don't feel that I am really missing out on anything.

[D_Davis]

I understand what you are saying, though, about preconceived notions driving you nuts. However, I usually find that people avoid works of genre fiction because of these preconceived notions - they think fantasy, or SF is something that it is not, or their perceptions are based on things that are more juvenile, or poorly executed.

That's why I'm always trying to champion the works of authors like Lord Dunsany, Arthur Machen, Algernon Blackwood, Robert E. Howard, Clark Ashton Smith, George MacDonald, and others so that people know that their is a wide world of non-Tolkien fantasy out there to explore; there is more to fantasy than dragons and elves, or kings and queens, and so on.

"It's a magical world...let's go exploring!"

[Qrazy]

So yeah I just finished Book 2 and there's a lot more fantastical elements now.

[Lucky]

I've added it to my "To Read" list which now consists of:

The Baroque Cycle – Neal Stephenson
Ragtime – E.L. Doctorow
Black Swan Green – David Mitchell
Light Years – James Salter

I'm pretty sure I can thank posters here for all of these recommendations that intrigued me.

Reading A Clash of Kings right now, only 200 pages in and I started grad school this week, so I have a feeling all I'll be reading this summer is Netter's Anatomy 5th Edition.

Reason #1001 why I love posting on Match-Cut: When your laptop crashes you don't lose your to-read list. I jumped Light Years by James Salter to the top of my queue and ordered it tonight. I'm still reading Clash of Kings, though.

[Qrazy]

A Song of Ice and Fire Plot Issues

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Show Spoiler

If Pycelle was behind Arryn's death why did he give Ned the genealogy book and not some other tomb.

If Pryat Pree's goal was for the Undead to suck the life out of Dany why tell her how to get to the Undead room and why would it be so hard to get to that room if in that room you just get sucked dry anyway.

]

[amberlita]

Picked up World War Z and The Electric Kook-Aid Acid Test tonight. I know the former has been discussed here previously but I can't seem to recall what most Match-Cutters thought of it. I'm hoping the latter will fulfill my semi-annual need to live vicariously through other people's 1960s drug-fueled experiences.

[ledfloyd]

Picked up World War Z and The Electric Kook-Aid Acid Test tonight. I know the former has been discussed here previously but I can't seem to recall what most Match-Cutters thought of it. I'm hoping the latter will fulfill my semi-annual need to live vicariously through other people's 1960s drug-fueled experiences.

i read the wolfe book in high school when i was going through a kerouac/kesey/grateful dead et. al. phase. i remember enjoying it quite a bit, wolfe is a great writer.

[Mysterious Dude]

Half-way through War and Peace. Hurray! The war has finally started again; enough of that crap about marriage. Also, here's something I've learned about myself that I didn't know: I have dirty fingers.

[Sycophant]

The Housekeeper and the Professor was wonderful. Yoko Ogawa is a revelation.

Mari Akasaka's Vibrator was a breathtaking and devastating stream-of-consciousness story, powerful, upsetting, and moving. Its adaptation by Ryuichi Hiroki is very worthy of it.

[Mara]

My new commuting book is The Return of the Native by Thomas Hardy. I have enjoyed some Hardy books and hated others, so I'm curious how I'll respond to this one.