"Inside Man" and "Miracle at St Anna" both qualify, I think.
Spike has decades more experience than most franchise stiffs had when they were first hired (Snyder, Favreau, the Russos, Whedon, etc).
But I'm not sure how much that matters bc it's not as if anyone is designing or directing the set pieces in tentpole movies by themselves.
Except when they insist to be part of it and you end up with WW1984.Quoting Irish (view post)
Inside Man is solid. But Spike Lee/anyone else has the near-impossible task of making Superman interesting.
What would really be great is if DC finally realized that Superman is the most boring super hero alive and they focus their attention on superheroes with interesting powers. Basically do what max landis wants to do.
1. Read any one of these & then come back & tell me Supes is boring.
2. Powers? What? Since when do interesting powers automatically make an interesting movie? Eg: I don't think anyone saw the "Iron Man" because of the suit ...
3. Max Landis has never, repeat never, realized a good idea.
I've read Red Son and it's good but it's not really Superman. Though I wouldn't mind seeing an adaption of that.
Chronical was good. And I agree he's never really broken through but his idea on the Death of Superman would be much better than what we got with Snyder.
Superman is one of the most interesting characters ever to come out of comics as a medium, and it's sad that he is also probably the most misunderstood and underappreciated.
The untapped potential in Superman on film is borderline criminal.
But all studios seem to want to showcase is SMASHY SMASHY! LASER EYES!
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
Also I won't watch anything new from Max Landis on principal.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
I really like Spike. I would much rather he create a superhero than take on a property. I feel like he would be bored by that.
Spike's got a nearly limitless supply of goodwill from me for Do the Right Thing and Get on the Bus, among other works. I'm perversely curious to see what he'd do with Superman.
"How is education supposed to make me feel smarter? Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home wine-making course and forgot how to drive?"
--Homer
What makes him so interesting to you?
I'm with Duke in that I find Superman one of the most boring comic book characters around, including the comics themselves. Even Irish's article doesn't really interest me, and certainly wouldn't transition into a movie.
I'd certainly be curious what someone like Spike would do with him or a comic book character, but I think he knows he prefers sticking to what he wants to do, only touching the studio system 1-2x a decade.
I don't have strong feelings about superman up or down, but the most interesting stories (for me) have revolved around his identity, and keeping his secret. *shrug* I can't even articulate an argument why.
Well it depends on whether you are looking at him from the era of his creation (1938 to, let's say, the early 80s), or modern iterations of the characters (early 80s to now). Both are equally interesting but very different.
While his very beginnings were fairly light newspaper fare (similar to every other hero of the era), he quickly became DC's Captain America. Fighting Nazis, inspiring Americans to join the fight, and adding "AMERICAN" to his resume as hard as possible without his outfit being a literal American flag.
I always found it fascinating how we got such wildly different characters and worlds out of DC with Superman and Batman, despite coming around at the same time. Both Gotham and Metropolis are obvious surrogates for New York City, yet Gotham portrays it as a practical war zone of crime and corruption, endless rainy nights and scummy characters. Batman is born out of near necessity. Gotham NEEDS Batman, and he is the only thing keeping its complete decay at bay. Whereas Metropolis is light, hope, sunshine. The people are good. Sure there is crime, but families are safe. Superman is there making an already good place better. Fast forward to the late 70s to mid 80s when comics in general started to "grow up" a bit. Artists and writers like Neil Adams, Marv Wolfman and Frank Miller start to give our heroes some gravitas.
We got like 30 years of incredible Superman stories between the 80s and 2010s. Stories of Superman losing everything, accepting death (both his own and his loved ones'), having a family, and a heartwrenching story of his deep desire to meet his birth parents.
"Fascinating history lesson, meg, but how does any of this make him an interesting character?"
First off, I find his unfettered optimism infectious and inspiring. A person with a deep-seated and unattainable need to connect with his world and people, lost in space and time, and yet he chooses to see only the good in others, to always help no matter the cost to himself. The importance of Ma and Pa Kent in providing him love and acceptance while also understanding that they can never replace what he never had.
And speaking of the Kent's, Superman is really like the ultimate "nature vs nurture" case, is he not? Several stories over the years have tackled this idea of "what of Krypton remains in him, and is he ever really a person of Earth?" Duke mentioned Red Son, but I actually much prefer Mark Waid's Superman: Birthright for this. What if Superman was only the first Kryptonian to arrive, of many on their way? What if he was meant to be the scout for an invasion? Which people will he stand with - the people of Earth who raised him, or the Kryptonians he feels he belongs with? This is one of the best Superman stories ever told, and has one incredible emotional punch of an ending.
The dichotomy of Superman being all powerful while also being so very vulnerable is something that goes back to Greek and Roman myths (and further, I'm sure). In Grant Morrison's All Star Superman, we see him having to accept what we always thought couldn't happen - his own "natural" death. Having flown too close to the sun and soaked up too much of its energy, Superman is getting ready to supernova like a dying star. This 12 issue series traverses an array of emotional and introspective Superman moments as he gets ready to say goodbye to Lois and the world.
In my personal favorite, Superman: Secret Identity, a guy named Clark Kent who grew up in Kansas in "our world" (Superman exists in pop culture and is a work of fiction), discovers that he actually has the same powers and abilities. While not a true Superman story in the strict sense, it still reveals much about Superman's inner workings. Being an outsider, being the only one like you on the planet, the moral dilemma of revealing yourself and your abilities.
As a kid I was very sickly. I pretty much grew up in and out of hospital. A complex.immune deficiency which led to 3 years of chemo, a fractured spine, suicidal depression from the age of 12. Through all of this I read Superman books and watched Christopher Reeve fly across the screen. It was cathartic for me, seeing someone who couldn't be hurt and couldn't get sick. Who could fly. But of course those aren't traits that make him interesting.
He is God, named Clark. He is a weapon that doesn't destroy, it mends. He is a stranger, but also the best friend you could ever have. He is a rejection of the belief that "absolute power corrupts absolutely". He would himself reject the idea that he has any more power than any one of us. Power to change, to make lives and circumstances better.
He is what we all wish we could be. A better friend, husband and person. Not just strong, but brave. Not invincible, but resilient in the face of adversity. A light to show the way.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
That was embarrassingly long. Sorry.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
That was a great read.
Yes it was.
I know you mentioned All Star Superman below, but I find his original death story one of the worst most desperate attempt at relevance ever seen in comics, and the outcome ruined comic books forever. So any additional death story tacked onto that is equally trite and equally desperate. Hard pass.
Though you spent a lot of time focused on what he IS that makes him fascinating, you neglected to touch on the very thing that separates him from all most every superhero ever with the same set of flight and super strength and invincibility which a dozen other character have... Shazam, Captain Marvel, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Wonder Woman, Rogue... which is the ONE thing that I find interesting about Superman. All those other things you listed are just things you can find in other characters albeit a different way, HOPE, a FRIEND, BRAVE, GOOD, NOBLE, BLAH BLAH BLAH ... not novel. You may have a personal connection with him, but these are the things that came out of action comics from a guy who was faster than a speeding bullet and more powerful than a locomotive and could pick up a car.
What's special about Superman is he's just a guy. He grew up in the midwest. He went to school. He learned he was special gradually... in his youth. His parents didn't die horribly in front of him. They weren't shot to death in front of him. He wasn't part of some disaster than gave him powers suddenly. He wasn't part of some experiment that gave him super strength. He wasn't raised by a race of powerful Amazon women. He didn't get a ring forced upon him that took him to planet where an intergalactic police force exists. He wans't taught by a clan of wizards. There's no message or sudden impact on how he can use his powers. He learns and chooses to use his powers for good... from a guy who was born into the BEST SUPERHERO POWERS EVER.
What's special about Superman is not what he IS. But how he is the way he is.
You really should give All Star Superman a chance, Duke.
I totally understand and empathize with your hated of the 90s Death stuff. I am not a fan either (there was some neat art, though).
It's freaking spectacular. One of the issues has Superman giving Lois the best birthday gift ever - his powers for a day.
And I agree with you that Superman being just a regular guy who happens to be Godlike is one of the most intriguing aspects of his character. It is used really well in Secret Identity.
Another book I recommend is "It's a Bird..." by Steven T. Seagle. It may help to show you (and others) why I I so fascinated by Superman. And the book doesn't even have Superman in it.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
I think Superman can be (and often is) a very interesting character but with the list Irish posted I noticed how most of his best comics are Elseworld or alternate History stories. The quality of the ongoing, in my opinion, has never been as good as it was during the John Byrne reboot in the '80s.
Regardless, comics are comics. I don't care about canon or continuity and I don't think any adult reader should, but I just noticed that reading through the list.
Last edited by Grouchy; 05-09-2021 at 01:10 PM.
The John Byrne stuff is incredible, Grouchy. Some of my favorite Superman images come from that work.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
Not getting a very good feeling from this clip...:
Wrong thread?
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
According to Twitter, there's some upset that the Riddler doesn't look like his campy green self in The Batman, and I'm like, why would anybody have expected that? I've seen his design and I'm glad they finally gave the character a serious treatment.
I gripe about all the DC Grimdark, but Batman IS grimdark. Riddler should also reflect that.
My YouTube Channel: Grim Street Grindhouse
My Top 100 Horror Movies OF ALL TIME.
If he had come out with a florescent green jacket covered in question marks I would have been disappointed.
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