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Thread: The DC/WB Superhero Movies Thread

  1. #2926
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    I felt the Aliens DC let the damn thing breathe and add some calm before the nightmare moments. Without the frantic pace. A few elements of it are extraneous I agree, but majority of it i felt helped. But to each their own.

  2. #2927
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Count me as someone who prefers Aliens DC as well. The added scenes show that Ripley has lost her daughter and Newt needs a mother. Far from subtle but it works.

    Regardless, in most cases I agree that films should have a final shape at their theatrical release. It's the best movie the filmmakers could deliver at their deadline. Producer interference is just another factor that can benefit or harm the final product. I know I've read Lynch and Scorsese express similar sentiments.

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  3. #2928
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Another fan of the DC Aliens here. Gives the Marines a cockier version of themselves along with what was already shared.

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  4. #2929
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    Wait, how can anyone think Blade Runner's theatrical cut should be the cut, since it's the definition of studio meddling and imposition?
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  5. #2930
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    You can call me out by name. I'm right here.

    "Interference" is part of the process and there are plenty of examples of great work being produced, released, and loved that were "interfered" with.

    I mean, thank God something like "Casablanca" wasn't made in this era. If it had been, there'd been 3 different "special editions" and each one would feature Ilsa getting on the plane with a different character.

    "Blade Runner" was released in 1982. Not 92 or 97 or 2005 or whatever. The original film may be flawed but that's also the film, and the flaws are part of what makes it worth talking about.

    ETA: Again, getting back to the idea that director's cuts are bullshit --- every one of the "Blade Runner" cuts coincided with a special edition DVD/Blu release.

    The whole idea is a marketing angle, not an artistic one.
    Last edited by Irish; 05-19-2020 at 04:14 AM.

  6. #2931
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    Here's a relevant example of studio interference on "Alien," btw:

    - The original title was "Starbeast."

    - Ash wasn't in it.

    - Ripley was a man.

    The producers rewrote the script to include Ash and the studio head suggested making Ripley a woman.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=4e...%20ash&f=false

  7. #2932
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    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    You can call me out by name. I'm right here.
    I can't , because in writing that I also include Grouchy's comment of theatrical final shape and producer interference as just another factor. I just think Blade Runner is different from something like his Alien (or the following Aliens with their multiple cuts) or Kingdom of Heaven though. Even if most of those director's cuts are better, especially KoH, Scott has final cut privilege and what's released is with his approvement. I feel like for Blade Runner it's a less extreme, director-losed version of Brazil.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
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  8. #2933
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    Here's a relevant example of studio interference on "Alien," btw:

    - The original title was "Starbeast."

    - Ash wasn't in it.

    - Ripley was a man.

    The producers rewrote the script to include Ash and the studio head suggested making Ripley a woman.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=4e...%20ash&f=false
    That's not true, though - none of those changes were ordered by the producers.

    It was O'Bannon himself who changed the title from Starbeast to Alien in his later drafts, while the Ash subplot was added by Walter Hill on his re-write. And the screenplay intentionally left the gender of the whole crew vague.

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  9. #2934
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    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    That's not true, though - none of those changes were ordered by the producers.
    Walter Hill was a producer on "Alien" and he's been a producer on every subsequent "Alien" production. He and his partner David Giler are a major force behind series' longevity.

    Ronald Shusset, co-writer, credited Hill and Giler with the creation of Ash and the subplot around him. It's literally in the source I referenced. Ditto notes about Ripley's gender.

    But in case you still don't believe it (??!!), here's an early draft where all of the characters are male and the script uses male pronouns to refer to them:

    http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/alien_early.html

    Alan Ladd Jr was President of Features at 20th Century Fox (in other words: a studio executive) when "Alien" was made and suggested Ripley's gender swap. There are multiple and numerous sources on this. Here are 3 random ones, just for fun, in addition to the one I already posted:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...i-1695001.html

    https://www.scmp.com/yp/discover/ent...rove-hollywood

    https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Alan_Lad...te_note-Saga-0

    Quote Quoting Peng (view post)
    I can't , because
    Stopped reading right about here, btw
    Last edited by Irish; 05-19-2020 at 07:28 AM.

  10. #2935
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    lol, you are needlessly aggressive all the time and just a mild eyeroll because you're being that again gets you all grandstanding? Please. And given your history of editing posts wholesale or especially deleting them some time afterwards just to distort truth and "win" (instead of viewing it as constructive discussion/disagreement) or to whatever it is those actions accomplish, I can't help but wonder about 20 minutes between the posting time and your last edit if you had actually replied to me, maybe even in a losin-head kinda way, then decided to backtrack because you want to appear that you can't be bothered?
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  11. #2936
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    btw, Duke, can you actually do this yet?

    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    If I were admin, deleting posts would be turned off.
    Last edited by Peng; 05-19-2020 at 11:09 AM.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  12. #2937
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    Quote Quoting Peng (view post)
    I can't help but wonder about 20 minutes between the posting time and your last edit if


    lol

  13. #2938
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    I think you gotta draw the line somewhere, and with films or books or comics or whatever, it's the first print. That's the work they put out, that's the work we should consider. It wasn't like a first draft they asked people to pay money for.
    I mean, in this case it kinda was. It was finished by a completely different director with a completely different vision. I'm shocked they even put Synder's name on the thing when it released.
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    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
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    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  14. #2939
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    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    "Alien" just bugged me because the DC destroys the film's timing. That first hour is all about establishing and maintaining a mood so why would anyone wanna fuck with it?
    What was added?
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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  15. #2940
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    If this is like other forums, where the functions are similar and mods can view edit history, they can see that the edit is to belatedly add "yet". Which is dumb, I know , but my English-as-second-language self can't stand that minor mistake when noticed.

    But this also proves that the "stopped reading" thing is just pure "sure jan" grandstanding.
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  16. #2941
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Peng (view post)
    btw, Duke, can you actually do this yet?
    No I'm not an admin. Even though it says I'm admin. I'm like... a super moderator?
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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  17. #2942
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    What was added?
    From what I remember, Scott balanced the run time by shaving minutes and seconds off early scenes and adding new material at the end.

    In particular, there's a sequence where we see one of the characters (Stanton, I think?) cocooned on the wall. But this wasn't part of the original release. The idea that the xenomorphs behaved like hive-minded insects was introduced in Cameron's sequel.

  18. #2943
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    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    From what I remember, Scott balanced the run time by shaving minutes and seconds off early scenes and adding new material at the end.

    In particular, there's a sequence where we see one of the characters (Stanton, I think?) cocooned on the wall. But this wasn't part of the original release. The idea that the xenomorphs behaved like hive-minded insects was introduced in Cameron's sequel.
    I remember reading about the cacooned wall stuff but never thought it made it into a release. That means I have never seen the DC.
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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  19. #2944
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    I recall the cocooned person was Kris Kristofferson? Whatever his character name was

  20. #2945
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Irish is always wrong. Just look at his terrible opinion on Aliens.

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  21. #2946
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    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    I recall the cocooned person was Kris Kristofferson? Whatever his character name was
    lol, yeah. Dallas, the captain --- Skeritt, not Stanton

    pic of him here: https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Alien_Director%27s_Cut

  22. #2947
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    LOL yeah tom Skeritt

    Wow....*sips coffee with whiskey*...mornin'....quaranti ne is a helluva thing...

  23. #2948
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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  24. #2949
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    Walter Hill was a producer on "Alien" and he's been a producer on every subsequent "Alien" production. He and his partner David Giler are a major force behind series' longevity.

    Ronald Shusset, co-writer, credited Hill and Giler with the creation of Ash and the subplot around him. It's literally in the source I referenced. Ditto notes about Ripley's gender.

    But in case you still don't believe it (??!!), here's an early draft where all of the characters are male and the script uses male pronouns to refer to them:

    http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/alien_early.html

    Alan Ladd Jr was President of Features at 20th Century Fox (in other words: a studio executive) when "Alien" was made and suggested Ripley's gender swap. There are multiple and numerous sources on this. Here are 3 random ones, just for fun, in addition to the one I already posted:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...i-1695001.html

    https://www.scmp.com/yp/discover/ent...rove-hollywood

    https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Alan_Lad...te_note-Saga-0
    I knew you'd point that out, but Hill was far from being the studio head. He had a company called Brandywine Productions and through that he shopped the re-written script to Fox. The title change was all O'Bannon. Point taken about Ladd Jr. making that call but it's not like I don't believe you out of stubbornness. I looked this stuff up and what you're saying is inaccurate. It might not be the case with the draft you linked to, but O'Bannon and Shusett's final script already had the unisex crew.


    The bottom line is that none of these things constitute what we understand as "studio interference", which is the studio overriding the filmmakers. In all these cases these changes took place even before a director was attached. They're simply examples of the development of a story over time, which is not under discussion.
    Last edited by Grouchy; 05-19-2020 at 02:07 PM.

  25. #2950
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    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    I looked this stuff up and what you're saying is inaccurate.
    No, it's really not.

    It might not be the case with the draft you linked to, but O'Bannon and Shusett's final script already had the unisex crew.
    Yeah, that was addressed by one of my sources --- saying that roles could be played by men or women ("to reach a broader audience") isn't the same as writing Ripley as a woman.

    The bottom line is that none of these things constitute what we understand as "studio interference", which is the studio overriding the filmmakers. In all these cases these changes took place even before a director was attached. They're simply examples of the development of a story over time, which is not under discussion.
    Do you not understand what a producer does?

    Or what happens when an executive gives notes?

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