Upstream Color (Shane Carruth)

[Stay Puft]

UPSTREAM COLOR
Director: Shane Carruth

IMDb page

[Thirdmango]

Thanks for making this. I had intended to eventually get around to doing it. But yes, I saw it at Sundance, and Shane did a 30 minute Q&A afterwards. The funny thing is usually if a director comes to screenings they will only go to the Park City and Salt Lake City screenings. Very few ever come out to the Sundance proper screenings since they are so out of the way but he mentioned how much he liked the small venue and how out of the way it was. I hadn't seen Primer and went based on my friend who had seen it and wanted to see this one so all I knew was there would likely be some sort of unconventionality to the film. This was indeed the case and I quite liked it, even more so after mulling it over for a while.

I've got some of the answers to his questions written down but I'll hang onto them until more people have seen the film.

[Raiders]

I desperately need to see this. I didn't even realize it starred indie uber-darling Amy Seimetz. Her own recent directorial effort Sun Don't Shine is getting wicked-good buzz and sounds fantastic.

[Thirdmango]

he said in casting her that he was looking for a lot of different people and then he watched Sun Don't Shine and fell in love with her and knew she had to be that part. He was worried she might as a director try to direct as well but she didn't and he adored having her in the film.

[plain]

D'Angelo liked it.

[Boner M]

Yay, this is playing in Toronto in April, when I'll have moved there. Can't wait.

[transmogrifier]

Even after the raves, it didn't really sound all that appealing, until I found out that the last 30 minutes is almost dialogue-free. If that's true, I'm suddenly keen to see it, and I'm not really sure why. Perhaps I just enjoy experiments with form more than elliptical, purposefully shapeless narratives? I is confused with myself.

[Thirdmango]

It's more like the last 10 minutes, but that is still true.

[Derek]

It's more like the last 10 minutes, but that is still true.

But there are also a number of 5-10 minute sequences throughout the film with little-to-no dialogue. It's interesting to see Carruth go from a rapid-fire dialogue heavy film like Primer to a film that feels like the most abstract sequences of Tree of Life extended to feature length. This'll be one of the most divisive films of the year on MatchCut and elsewhere. Trans, EWO and the narrative-only cinema collective will despise it, but I imagine it's high ambitions will land it in a number of top 10s as well. I find myself more on the fence, appreciating its bold attempts at a new form of highly rhythmic, musical storytelling (regardless of anyone's take on the film, it's editing is quite remarkable) yet still frustrated at its deliberate obtuseness which undermines its lofty thematic preoccupations.

[Derek]

I desperately need to see this. I didn't even realize it starred indie uber-darling Amy Seimetz. Her own recent directorial effort Sun Don't Shine is getting wicked-good buzz and sounds fantastic.

FYI, the film was also co-edited by Sun Don't Shine editor, David Lowery (who also directly Ain't Them Bodies Saints which is also getting great buzz). The editing in Upstream incredibly impressive - rhythmic and intuitive, almost purely musical. In the Q&A, both Lowery and Carruth talked about how critical and difficult the editing process was to the final product and it really shows, even if the end result isn't quite as cohesive as it could have been, although time and a rewatch could certainly help this type of film. So yeah, definitely much more excited for Sun Don't Shine after this.

[Pop Trash]

But there are also a number of 5-10 minute sequences throughout the film with little-to-no dialogue. It's interesting to see Carruth go from a rapid-fire dialogue heavy film like Primer to a film that feels like the most abstract sequences of Tree of Life extended to feature length.

Interesting. I might have to check this out even though I'm not a big Primer fan in part because of the reasons you mentioned. I felt like I was inside an engineering convention.

yet still frustrated at its deliberate obtuseness which undermines its lofty thematic preoccupations.

Wasn't that some people's argument against the film in your avatar?

[Derek]

Interesting. I might have to check this out even though I'm not a big Primer fan in part because of the reasons you mentioned. I felt like I was inside an engineering convention.

I would almost go so far as saying your reaction to Primer has almost no bearing on what you'll think of this. It's a totally different beast.

Wasn't that some people's argument against the film in your avatar?

Um, I guess? This film's events are far more ambiguous and more tenuously connected than anything in The Master. I mean, I love that nature of filmmaking so I'm certainly not suggesting it never works, just that when it is pushed to a certain extreme, you risk allowing your ambition to allow things to spiral a bit out of control. All I'll say is watch this film and tell me you think The Master is nearly as difficult a film...not really worth comparing otherwise.

[number8]

Great. A screening of this with Carruth Q&A moderated by Soderbergh is sold out and I missed it. :sad:

[Acapelli]

Great. A screening of this with Carruth Q&A moderated by Soderbergh is sold out and I missed it. :sad:

yeah, wish i got tix for that. i'll be seeing a screening with carruth on sunday

[Boner M]

Indisputably a major film, though I wasn't always feeling it - it vacillates (for me, at least) between something to let wash over you and something that begs for active intellectual engagement, and ends up feeling a little lopsided. But ultimately it succeeds on the former point more than the latter, and there were a number of sections of the film where I was greatly moved without quite being able to pinpoint why.

The opening portion with Seimetz & the thief is probably the strongest and most distinctive; the fragments-of-relationship stuff felt a little too Malicky (what doesn't these days?).

[Derek]

the fragments-of-relationship stuff felt a little too Malicky (what doesn't these days?).

Even Malick is too Malicky for you these days, so not sure how to take this.

But I agree with you overall. A flawed film for sure, but one that demands to be seen.

[Pop Trash]

I'm not sure what to make of this. It's either some crazy/brilliant film about the tyranny of narrative in motion pictures (among other things) or one of the most incoherent American narrative(?) films since Dennis Hopper's The Last Movie. It kept having these weird segways into things such as Cronenberg style body horror and foley artistry. I'm downright amazed that anyone is putting a story together w/o either having read interviews/interpretations or directly interviewing Shane Carruth himself and asking him "soo...what the hell did I just watch?"

Ultimately I feel like movies like The Tree of Life or Holy Motors, while not making total logical sense, make sense thematically, but with Upstream Color I keep grasping at straws.

It most certainly makes me want to re-read Walden, so there's that.

[Derek]

It most certainly makes me want to re-read Walden, so there's that.

Best part of the Q&A was when Carruth was asked about Walden. He said he originally chose it because he remembered it being dense and boring him to death in high school and that was the type of book he wanted Kris to read from. So it was almost dumb luck that it fit thematically with what he was going for.

I had the same exact reaction to the film you did.

[Pop Trash]

Best part of the Q&A was when Carruth was asked about Walden. He said he originally chose it because he remembered it being dense and boring him to death in high school and that was the type of book he wanted Kris to read from. So it was almost dumb luck that it fit thematically with what he was going for.

So Carruth is basically admitting it's a bunch of bullshit then? Mmmk.

[Milky Joe]

This was freaking astounding. I will be thinking about this film for a long time.

So Carruth is basically admitting it's a bunch of bullshit then? Mmmk.

Or he's being cagey, like any good filmmaker should be.

[Pop Trash]

Or he's being cagey, like any good filmmaker should be.

Debatable. Steven Soderbergh is one of the most uncagey directors out there and I love the dude.

[Milky Joe]

Well, I like him too but Soderbergh has never made a film like this. Also, in an interview with The Awl, Carruth gave a more thematically inspired response about choosing Walden. So I don't think we should read too much into the Q&A.

If you want to assume it's all bullshit though, go right ahead.

[Thirdmango]

He said the same exact thing at my Q&A as well and that's like 3 months apart from his.

Though the thing to remember about Carruth is you can tell during Q&As that he's incredibly nervous and he desperately wants people to like him. During my Q&A he ended by saying we were the best audience yet because in every other one he kept dreading it because he thought he would have to justify everything because nobody likes him. But then we were nice so he felt better.

But how he explained the Walden bit at mine is he wasn't looking for poetry that would help with the narrative, he was looking for something which sounded like it was a slog, droning on and on as something to just help with the twisting of the brain so he remembered back to high school and Walden was the most boring poet he could remember and so in looking through Walden's stuff he then found one which actually helped the narrative and liked it for the piece. So the first intention was that it wasn't supposed to be good but as it was going then he found it would actually be amazing.

[wigwam]

:|

[Boner M]

Wigwam here to shake shit up!