Interstellar (Christopher Nolan)

[Milky Joe]

I hope like hell that they skip through all that cliched "You have to trust me," "When are you coming back?" cliched crap as quickly as possible.

Have you ever seen a Christopher Nolan movie? That will be the whole movie.

[max314]

"Love is the one thing that transcends time and space."

:|

[angrycinephile]

Blah blah blah blah.

People who bitch about dialogue -- especially of the earnest sentiment kind -- are so cliche.

"Help each other. Love everyone. Every leaf. Every ray of light. Forgive."

"The only way to be happy is to love. Unless you love, your life will flash by. Be good to them. Wonder. Hope"

And you know, The Tree of Life is still a great, great movie.

[Irish]

Gimme a break. Sentiment has to be earned. Dialogue should sound like it came from an actual human being, not a Hallmark greeting card.

[Grouchy]

And you know, The Tree of Life is still a great, great movie.

Except not. As time goes by and I see some really good films that explore new avenues for cinema (such as Under the Skin this year) I'm more and more surprised by how utterly shitty and stupid the last two Malicks were.

[Izzy Black]

how utterly shitty and stupid the last two Malicks were.

[Grouchy]

I don't know, man. I feel like they're movies comprised of the most banal, commonplace observations about the human condition, conveyed through the most pretentious possible way.

My favorite Malick is still Badlands.

[transmogrifier]

Blah blah blah blah.

People who bitch about dialogue -- especially of the earnest sentiment kind -- are so cliche.

"Help each other. Love everyone. Every leaf. Every ray of light. Forgive."

"The only way to be happy is to love. Unless you love, your life will flash by. Be good to them. Wonder. Hope"

And you know, The Tree of Life is still a great, great movie.

So dialogue can never be a point of criticism? Interesting. What other aspects of cinema are immune to subjective reactions?

Or is it more to do with the fact that it shouldn't be a point of criticism for directors/films you personally like?

Also, The Tree of Life is not very good, and the banality of the dialogue is a key reason.

[Dead & Messed Up]

It's a trailer, not the film. And I've enjoyed most of Nolan's films - in fact, I think I've liked them all to varying degrees.

So whatever.

Whatever.

[megladon8]

I can appreciate great dialogue as much as the next guy and poor dialogue can certainly be a detractor, but it's hardly a make-or-break.

Most of Nolan's films have had spotty dialogue, and most of Nolan's films have been great.

[number8]

WHATEVER DOESNT KILL YOU MAKES YOU STRANGER

[Dead & Messed Up]

WHATEVER DOESNT KILL YOU MAKES YOU STRANGER

HWHARSTHATRIGGARH

[MadMan]

Dialogue is pretty low on the list of things I think make a good move. If the acting sucks or the direction is terrible and I hate the story no high level of dialogue will help.

[Izzy Black]

I don't know, man. I feel like they're movies comprised of the most banal, commonplace observations about the human condition, conveyed through the most pretentious possible way.

I never thought they were about the human condition, but I'm not really sure what that is either. Maybe Tree of Life more so than To the Wonder. But To the Wonder does things very little, if any, romantic dramas do. Neither of these films are really radically out of step thematically with his previous ones. I'm actually not too warm on Tree of Life myself, but it's the nowhere near shitty. The visuals alone keep it from that. I think TTW is one of his best though.

My favorite Malick is still Badlands.

The interesting thing is I find this to be his least substantive film. Or in any case, his least interesting.

[Izzy Black]

Dialogue is pretty low on the list of things I think make a good move. If the acting sucks or the direction is terrible and I hate the story no high level of dialogue will help.

I think it depends. In a Malick film, I think the dialogue is a more visceral device. It's there more to help impart a feeling, working in tandem and in harmony with the visuals, rather than to strictly anchor any sort of plot or robust narrative structure. It isn't necessarily concerned with feeling natural, conversational, or authentic, no more than poetry is, as it kind of hovers above the film in fragmented aphorisms, whether in voiceover or spoken directly by characters.

[Izzy Black]

I can appreciate great dialogue as much as the next guy and poor dialogue can certainly be a detractor, but it's hardly a make-or-break.

Most of Nolan's films have had spotty dialogue, and most of Nolan's films have been great.

The reason I think dialogue is a dealbreaker in Nolan is because I don't think he has anything else going for him besides his stories and plots. The writing is everything in a Nolan film. It's a shame that he lets his characters do all the narrating in his films with such stiff dialogue. It makes it very difficult for me to appreciate his stories. His characters almost never stop telling me what's happening.

[Milky Joe]

I completely agree with your thoughts on Nolan, Izzy. His movies are stiff, ugly, and often self-righteous.

However, I'd go so far as to say Badlands is the only good movie I've seen from Malick (which doesn't include Days of Heaven as I have not seen it). TTW was a gross, pointless exercise in male fantasy and proved to me he has nothing interesting to say. He sure does know how to take pretty pictures, though.

[Izzy Black]

I find the divergent opinions on Malick's oeuvre rather fascinating. I've found that many who aren't to fond on Malick tend to still like Badlands. It's impossible to predict a diehard Malick fan's favorite, though, except only to say that you will likely tend to see Days of Heaven somewhere in the top 3 in most cases, although certainty not all.

To the Wonder is arguably my third or second favorite Malick. A very underappreciated film, I feel. It's also debatable to what extent it's a male fantasy. It might be that in some measure, I'm not sure. It's certainly written from a male experience with strong autobiographical elements, but as far as female characterization in male-centered romantic dramas go, it trumps the lot. I've written more about it in the TTW thread.

[Dukefrukem]

How...is a Nolan film is self-righteous....?

[Izzy Black]

I'd go more with pedantic and heavy-handed.

[megladon8]

The reason I think dialogue is a dealbreaker in Nolan is because I don't think he has anything else going for him besides his stories and plots. The writing is everything in a Nolan film. It's a shame that he lets his characters do all the narrating in his films with such stiff dialogue. It makes it very difficult for me to appreciate his stories. His characters almost never stop telling me what's happening.

I think Nolan is very accomplished visually as well, but I wouldn't argue with you that the most important part of his work is almost always the plot.

But again, I find his style of exposition heavy dialogue just...works. I don't know why, it just all comes together quite well. Perhaps it's also the almost unanimously fantastic actors/performances he gets that are able to sell the clunky dialogue so well.

I wish he would work with Hugh Jackman again.

[Izzy Black]

I've had my fair share of rants against Nolan's visuals. I think the biggest thing holding him back was Wally Pfister, though, so I'm actually quite curious to see what happens with this one. It already looks a step above visually from anything he's done before. I also think he's a little too cut-happy, so I hope he lays off that as well.

As for the expository dialogue, it just takes me out of the story. It makes everything feel artificial. It wouldn't bother me so much if he had strong/interesting characters outside of the lead, but he rarely does.

[transmogrifier]

Days of Heaven and Memento are both superb.
Malick current interests are the total opposite of mine. I have no desire to see To The Wonder.
Nolan is not a very good visual director. I find his current movies kind of square and labored, though they are often filled with good ideas (though his themes are often sledgehammer subtle and thus annoying).
I'm looking forward to Interstellar once it gets to the ship. From the looks of the trailer, I'll have to grin and bear the setup. Hope i'm wrong though.
These are my thoughts on things.

[Winston*]

I like Nolan and Malick.

[DavidSeven]

I like the way Nolan's films look.

His movies look like Chris Nolan movies. 90% of directors working in the tentpole business are using some version of the studio-approved, CGI-heavy, orange/teal filtered aesthetic. Somehow they get a pass while Nolan is labeled boring. Even the directors who are powerful enough to dictate their own style still lean too heavily on CGI these days. There's like two companies that do the effects for every movie -- they're all going to end up looking the same. IMO, Nolan has done a fair job of setting himself apart as a stylist by simply resisting that urge; and even in a vacuum, I think his style has progressed since The Prestige.