View Poll Results: Zero Dark Thirty (Kathryn Bigelow)

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Thread: Zero Dark Thirty (Kathryn Bigelow)

  1. #26
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    So tempted to see this on opening night but every instinct I have tells me not to.
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  2. #27
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    So tempted to see this on opening night but every instinct I have tells me not to.
    Aren't you all Patriot-focused anyway??

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  3. #28
    Alone again, naturally eternity's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
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    Wow, this is completely on the mark.

  4. #29
    Piss off, ghost! number8's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting eternity (view post)
    Wow, this is completely on the mark.
    Originally even more so, when Bigelow and Boal almost made the movie before they got Bin Laden.
    Quote Quoting Donald Glover
    I was actually just reading about Matt Damon and he’s like, ‘There’s a culture of outrage.’ I’m like, ‘Well, they have a reason to be outraged.’ I think it’s a lot of dudes just being scared. They’re like, ‘What if I did something and I didn’t realize it?’ I’m like, ‘Deal with it.’
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  5. #30
    Kung Fu Hippie Watashi's Avatar
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    How come none of you fuckers told me Captain Jack Harkness was in this movie? I'm looking at you, Ary.
    Sure why not?

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  6. #31
    Kung Fu Hippie Watashi's Avatar
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    I think I prefer The Hurt Locker, though they are very similar film in terms of characters who are consumed by their patriotic duty and when given a chance out, they are left hungry for more.

    Anyway, excellent film. I think the Zodiac comparisons are spot on, as this film (at least the first half) is all about the chaotic chase for information that leads in circles. I really liked Jason Clarke's performance. I wish he was getting more notice in Award circles.
    Sure why not?

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  7. #32
    Piss off, ghost! number8's Avatar
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    I mentioned it in the Upcoming forum's thread. Duh doy.
    Quote Quoting Donald Glover
    I was actually just reading about Matt Damon and he’s like, ‘There’s a culture of outrage.’ I’m like, ‘Well, they have a reason to be outraged.’ I think it’s a lot of dudes just being scared. They’re like, ‘What if I did something and I didn’t realize it?’ I’m like, ‘Deal with it.’
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  8. #33
    Kung Fu Hippie Watashi's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting number8 (view post)
    Originally even more so, when Bigelow and Boal almost made the movie before they got Bin Laden.
    I would love to see a documentary on the making of this movie.
    Sure why not?

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  9. #34
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    Yeah it's good, but I don't have a strong desire to ever watch it again. It's a bit like a cross between United 93 and The Silence of the Lambs (although I think ultimately Demme is a better filmmaker than Bigelow.)

    Most of my problems stem from Bigelow's style or lack thereof. I mean, other than the final shot (which is quite strong) did she hold on an image longer than five seconds? It's all very handheld close-up + quick cutting that reminds me too much of a well made HBO movie.

    I am glad Bigelow and Boal didn't fuck up the ambiguities. I could easily see this being either too patriotic or too spelled out and it's to their credit the film is neither.

    Also: did anyone else's audience laugh when:

    [
    ]
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  10. #35
    Moderator TGM's Avatar
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    So this was technically a really good movie, though, like Argo, it's definitely something I'm going to forget about in maybe about a week's time. Just didn't really strike much of a chord with me.

  11. #36
    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    is neither.

    Also: did anyone else's audience laugh when:

    [
    ]
    my sister was chuckling a bit.
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  12. #37
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Wow, so Bigelow really stepped it up after the already great "Hurt Locker." She takes an objective look at the movie, without ever considering the morals of characters, which I like a lot. The dissection of the web that is this investigation is certainly a little confusing, but I was enthralled the entire time, and never frustrated.

    We all know the ending, but the last thirty minutes are certainly among the most tense sequences around. Impeccably crafted and suspenseful. Good stuff.

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  13. #38
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    These are disorganised thoughts, but I felt like putting them down to paper:

    This is a much, much better movie that many people give it credit for. Yes, just like Zodiac (another exceptional, and underappreciated movie), it's a procedural, and one of the main themes is certainly the "how" of finding Osama bin Laden.

    But there's so much more going on. Just a few of the themes that are quietly (stealthily?) addressed:

    - How catching Osama was not about outsmarting the man, but mainly about brute force pattern recognition and data analysis -- note how the man himself is essentially absent in the movie. And yet, it's also about how it still came down to human hunches, intuition.

    - How obsessiveness turns an objective - in this case - a human being, into an abstract concept, an idea. For all her decade of looking for him, Maya probably didn't know bin Laden any better than you or I.

    - How the moral lines we debate inn society are not just blurred, but absent for those we charge with protecting us. The characters don't even debate torture - they are charged with fulfilling a mission. The scene in which they're watching Obama's televised speech is fantastic -- his words, his point feel almost alien given that it will make their mission harder.

    So many more details are worth mentioning: how the film is pan-global, and yet one office looks so like another; how, for that matter, most of the film takes place inside a tunnel-like series of fortified offices; how well the contrast between the first two hours -- offices, meetings, video screens -- and the final half hour -- a first and final pulse of action in darkened skies -- works; the exceptional performances by not just Chastain, but Jason Clarke, Jennifer Ehle (why is she not in every movie?), Mark Strong; the clean, elegant visuals; the power of individual scenes (like Ehle's meeting with the source in the desert).

    And those who disparage Bigelow's direction are, in my opinion, way off the mark. Her work here is commanding, in total control, and the result of a clear vision of what the film should be like, feel like, achieve -- and yet it's almost entirely self-effacing.

  14. #39
    Best Boy Chac Mool's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting number8 (view post)
    Speaking of, so I'm not the only one who thinks that that whole sequence is kind of a misstep? I understand the importance of it being there, but it's such a long detour from the main character that it struck me as a bit unnecessary.
    That's an interesting point, but I see it in much the same way as the final sequence -- it's a direct result of Maya's actions, and thus a fulfillment of what she wanted and worked for.

  15. #40
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Well said.

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  16. #41
    Ain't that just the way EyesWideOpen's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    Well said.
    Definitely. My political feelings aside this is one of the best films of 2012.
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  17. #42
    I think Mike D'Angelo does a good job of summing up my biggest problem with it:

    Zero Dark Thirty’s lone-wolf protagonist makes it more conventional than it seems
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  18. #43
    Quote Quoting Chac Mool (view post)
    This is a much, much better movie that many people give it credit for.
    I haven't seen it yet, but... eh?

  19. #44
    Quote Quoting Chac Mool (view post)
    like Zodiac (another exceptional, and underappreciated movie)
    Whaa?!?
    Just because...
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  20. #45
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    Whaa?!?
    Kinda true. The blu-ray isn't even in print anymore.
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  21. #46
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    Quote Quoting Boner M (view post)
    I haven't seen it yet, but... eh?
    I think he means the anti-gov stink against it in the US.
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  22. #47
    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    I think Mike D'Angelo does a good job of summing up my biggest problem with it:

    Zero Dark Thirty’s lone-wolf protagonist makes it more conventional than it seems
    I think this is a really, really bad analysis. He's really straining to find fault.

    This is an unfathomable reach:

    Maya has been transformed into the protagonist of a revenge movie.

    In truth, I think Bigelow and Boal would have loved to have Maya take bin Laden out herself.

    ...“Bin Laden is there. And you’re gonna kill him for me.” That’s a remarkable statement, and had it been uttered by a genuinely complex character—if Zero Dark Thirty in any way suggested that Maya suffers from delusions of grandeur, or is a raging narcissist—I’d feel okay about the way it makes me recoil. Instead, it seems literal: The SEALs are proxies for Maya, killing UBL on her behalf.

    ...

    When Gandolfini asks how close the Pakistani Military Academy is to the compound, someone tells him “about a mile”—which is all he needs to know—and then Maya jumps in to note that in fact the distance is precisely 4,221 feet, which is closer to 8/10 of a mile. Gee, thanks for that. Again, if this moment was intended to portray Maya as something of an arrogant ass, that’d be fine. But it isn’t. It’s meant to demonstrate her superior knowledge. It’s another means of making her not a complicated, fallible human being but a conventional (albeit armchair) action hero.
    Okay, this is baffling because D'Angelo is actually hovering around what the film is doing well in terms of Maya's characterization, but for some inexplicable reason, he seems to be ignoring his good instincts in favor of some really strained analysis.

    Of course Maya is intended to appear as an occasional self-righteous ass. There are several moments when she seems completely devoid of any social skill whatsoever. As an exploration of character, this film is certainly about someone whose boundless professional ambition trumps potential relationships with friends and co-workers and the deeper moral considerations of her professional objectives. In a broader sense, the film gives the audience an opportunity to question the single-mindedness of characters like Maya while skillfully avoiding judgment or damnation. This is part of the brilliance of the film. Is her manhunt a worthwhile use of bureaucratic and personal energy or would that effort be better devoted on more immediately practical or more obviously socially enriching endeavors? There's no clear answer, even by the film's end when Maya is triumphant but left to ponder what her relentless devotion has really achieved. The film, however, never takes that extra hackneyed step of overtly suggesting it's a completely empty victory. Maya is allowed to stand tall as the cocky "motherfucker" who found the guy, but still left to wonder "where to now?" It hardly offers the same unadulterated cathartic victory available at the end of a traditional revenge tale or through vindication of a conventional lone wolf.
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  23. #48
    But the final shot is hollow because the film hasn't really done anything with Maya's character except make her the driving force, voice of reason, one against all etc. The marker pen on the window is the worst part of the film.

    The biggest fault is that the film makes the quest a personal one by killing her friend, which goes against the interesting political nature of the story. It much more trenchant to explore the ramifications of devoting your life to a bureaucratic mission divorced of personal investments - but the film decides we need to frame it as yet another personal revenge mission.
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  24. #49
    pushing too many pencils Rowland's Avatar
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    The final shot didn't do much for me either, I only appreciated it on an intellectual level, understanding Maya as more of a metaphor for post-9/11 American nationalism than a flesh-and-blood person (a reading that her deliberately vague characterization encourages), so her lack of catharsis and purpose in that final image only works for me as a symbolic national indictment. I just wish I'd felt something, I presume I was supposed to.
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  25. #50
    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    the film decides we need to frame it as yet another personal revenge mission.
    No, it doesn't.
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