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Thread: Celeb (and Celeb SO's) Obit Thread

  1. #3476
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    Damn

    Always remember the story about how no one told him on the first movie that his voice was going to be dubbed over.

    So he put a lot of effort into his lines, only to go to the premiere and hear James Earl Jones' voice.

    RIP.
    I'm not being dramatic, I just feel like I'm going to throw up my heart and my head is going to fly away like a bird.

  2. #3477
    Since 1929 Morris Schæffer's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting megladon8 (view post)
    Damn

    Always remember the story about how no one told him on the first movie that his voice was going to be dubbed over.

    So he put a lot of effort into his lines, only to go to the premiere and hear James Earl Jones' voice.

    RIP.
    Here is actually a video of Prowse saying the lines. This probably wouldn't have worked.



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  3. #3478
    Last Seen:
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  4. #3479
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Damn. Badass that he played both. Both were great performances.

  5. #3480
    Since 1929 Morris Schæffer's Avatar
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    RIP. I only know him from The Mad Max movies but left a huge impression.
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  6. #3481
    Last Seen:
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    First time ☆

  7. #3482
    Since 1929 Morris Schæffer's Avatar
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    Chuck Yeager, 97.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/07/u...ath/index.html

    I should rewatch The Right Stuff real soon. Been putting that off for a long time.
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    • The Crown (S3) ✦✦✦✦
    • Die Hard (McTiernan, 1988) ✦✦✦✦ -- rewatch
    • Carlos (Assayas, 2010/France) ✦✦✦½ [+]
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  8. #3483
    Super Moderator dreamdead's Avatar
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    The great musician Harold Budd. A marvelous pianist and founder of the central tenets of ambient music.

    One of the first musicians that MC helped me discover.
    Ant-Man and the Wasp - 5
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  9. #3484
    Last Seen:
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    Batman vs. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (J. Castorena, 2019) ☆
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    First time ☆

  10. #3485
    Last Seen:
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    Her Blue Sky (T. Nagai, 2019) ☆
    The Shield, S5 (S. Ryan, 2006) ☆
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    Batman vs. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (J. Castorena, 2019) ☆
    The Spectacular Spider-Man, S1 (G. Weisman/V. Cook, 2008)
    Twelve Forever, S1 (J. Vickerman, 2019) ☆

    First time ☆

  11. #3486
    Last Seen:
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    Her Blue Sky (T. Nagai, 2019) ☆
    The Shield, S5 (S. Ryan, 2006) ☆
    Heat (M. Mann, 1995)
    Batman vs. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (J. Castorena, 2019) ☆
    The Spectacular Spider-Man, S1 (G. Weisman/V. Cook, 2008)
    Twelve Forever, S1 (J. Vickerman, 2019) ☆

    First time ☆

  12. #3487
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    NOOOOOOOO!!! I love Kim Ki-Duks work!

  13. #3488
    The Isle holds up pretty well. I remember liking Spring, Summer, Winter, Fall... and Spring when it came out but haven't seen it recently. Moebius is bad but has some funny moments. Bad Guy, Samaritan Girl, and 3-Iron are all terrible. He wasn't untalented but even his better movies are pretty pretentious.
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  14. #3489
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    The Isle holds up pretty well. I remember liking Spring, Summer, Winter, Fall... and Spring when it came out but haven't seen it recently. Moebius is bad but has some funny moments. Bad Guy, Samaritan Girl, and 3-Iron are all terrible. He wasn't untalented but even his better movies are pretty pretentious.
    Some beautiful, sensitive thoughts to share on the day of his death.
    I'm not being dramatic, I just feel like I'm going to throw up my heart and my head is going to fly away like a bird.

  15. #3490
    Quote Quoting megladon8 (view post)
    Some beautiful, sensitive thoughts to share on the day of his death.
    The allegations of sexual assault may assuage your misgivings here

    Anyway, I liked Spring, Summer etc., 3-Iron, and Samaria, but Bad Guy, The Coast Guard, and Address Unknown are three of the worst Korean films I have ever seen.
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  16. #3491
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    At the very least, Spring / Summer should be credited for kicking off the Korean wave in America long before stuff like Oldboy and The Host, etc. were even released here. I saw Spring / Summer at an arthouse theater in 2004(?) and it was the first Korean movie I had even heard of. The only Asian films I had seen at that point were from HK and Japan. 3-Iron was acclaimed as well. He really should be acknowledged for paving the way for Bong Joon Ho and Park Chan Wook. It made a bit over 2M at the USA box office which isn't too shabby for an Asian language film around that time.
    Last edited by Pop Trash; 12-12-2020 at 11:21 PM.
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  17. #3492
    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    At the very least, Spring / Summer should be credited for kicking off the Korean wave in America long before stuff like Oldboy and The Host, etc. were even released here. I saw Spring / Summer at an arthouse theater in 2004(?) and it was the first Korean movie I had even heard of. The only Asian films I had seen at that point were from HK and Japan. 3-Iron was acclaimed as well. He really should be acknowledged for paving the way for Bong Joon Ho and Park Chan Wook. It made a bit over 2M at the USA box office which isn't too shabby for an Asian language film around that time.
    The claim that Kim paved the way for other South Korean filmmakers to find success abroad assumes that there was some obstacle to Korean films becoming art house hits in North America and Europe, and I'm not aware of any such obstacle. It seems likely that Old Boy would have done well internationally even had Spring, Summer, etc. not become a hit in the US, since it won the Grand Prix at Cannes and was enthusiastically championed by Quentin Tarantino (who was the head of the Cannes jury in 2004).

    Moreover, Kim wasn't recognized internationally because he was the greatest South Korean filmmaker up till that point (check out Kim Kiyoung's The Housemaid), or even necessarily a very good one; he was just the first one to figure out a sure-fire recipe for gaming the international festival circuit and art house market. The Isle--which established Kim's international reputation--is a textbook example of a European festival (in this case, Venice) selecting a film full of sex and violence in order to generate a media "scandal," while the commercial success of Spring, Summer, etc. just proves that white people can't get enough of self-orientalizing representations of East Asians as ahistorical primitives endlessly reproducing an ancient culture that is both unchanging and antithetical to Western modernity (hence, the film's cyclical structure).
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  18. #3493
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    You sure seem to want to shit on the reputation of a guy who just died, baby doll. You can say "Old Boy would have been a big hit anyway" all you want (and maybe you are right, no one would ever know, since you are proposing a hypothetical alternate reality), but the fact remains that in that wave that began around 2004, Spring / Summer got there first in America (and I quite liked it, and it was a bit of a word of mouth low key arthouse hit since I had friends that also saw it in the theater first run around that time and also really liked it). I've only seen 3-Iron (which I also quite liked) of his other work. I know Mike D'angelo pushed back on his backlash (which might have been spurred by his behavior) and liked some his later works. Also, the idea that Spring / Summer wasn't widely acclaimed in America back in 2004 is patently absurd (link related). The Housemaid wasn't as influential as Spring / Summer, otherwise we would have gotten as many Korean films in the 1960s as we did from Japan. There wasn't a wave of people out of Korea like Ozu, Mizoguchi, Immamura, Suzuki, Kurosawa, Oshima, Teshigahara, etc. that came out in 1960s after The Housemaid. There sure as fuck were a lot of Korean movies that came out in the 2000s and 2010s post Spring / Summer. Would that have happened anyway? Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know because the truth is that Spring / Summer kicked all of that off.

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/spr...nterand_spring
    Last edited by Pop Trash; 12-13-2020 at 08:01 AM.
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  19. #3494
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    I dont care about you dorks arguments. The man is dead, and he presented his art, and it was original. I dont care if you love it or hate it. In this thread, on his passing, appreciate it or be silent. Theres no need for criticism now or here unless you're a dick.

  20. #3495
    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    You sure seem to want to shit on the reputation of a guy who just died, baby doll. You can say "Old Boy would have been a big hit anyway" all you want (and maybe you are right, no one would ever know, since you are proposing a hypothetical alternate reality), but the fact remains that in that wave that began around 2004, Spring / Summer got there first in America (and I quite liked it, and it was a bit of a word of mouth low key arthouse hit since I had friends that also saw it in the theater first run around that time and also really liked it). I've only seen 3-Iron (which I also quite liked) of his other work. I know Mike D'angelo pushed back on his backlash (which might have been spurred by his behavior) and liked some his later works. Also, the idea that Spring / Summer wasn't widely acclaimed in America back in 2004 is patently absurd (link related). The Housemaid wasn't as influential as Spring / Summer, otherwise we would have gotten as many Korean films in the 1960s as we did from Japan. There wasn't a wave of people out of Korea like Ozu, Mizoguchi, Immamura, Suzuki, Kurosawa, Oshima, Teshigahara, etc. that came out in 1960s after The Housemaid. There sure as fuck were a lot of Korean movies that came out in the 2000s and 2010s post Spring / Summer. Would that have happened anyway? Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know because the truth is that Spring / Summer kicked all of that off.

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/spr...nterand_spring
    Notwithstanding the credible rape allegations against Kim (which have not been tested in court), I don't think the fact of his early death is any reason to inflate either the quality of his films (which was decidedly mixed, to put it mildly) or their historical significance (which I believe was minimal). After all, it's not like you guys knew him or anything.

    I don't deny that Spring, Summer... was widely acclaimed, nor am I arguing it's a necessarily bad film (it's been too long since I've seen it to say either way); only that the claim it paved the way for other South Korean filmmakers to find success in US art houses is highly dubious. What evidence is there in support of a causal connection between the international success Spring, Summer... and that of subsequent South Korean films like Old Boy and Parasite? So far I've yet to see any.

    Even more dubious is the idea Kim's film had some influence on the quality of subsequent South Korean films. For one thing, as Tony Rayns points out in his infamous Film Comment article, Kim was an extremely marginal figure in the South Korean film industry. Like the more talented and less pretentious Hong Sangsoo, he was dependent on European funding agencies and festivals to get his films financed and seen, since most of them tanked at the domestic box office. (Rayns estimates that Address Unknown only sold 12,000 tickets in its initial run.) If there was a sudden spike in the quality of South Korean films at the end of the 1990s, I would argue that the likely cause was not Kim or any other singular filmmaker but the 1984 Motion Picture Law which relaxed government restrictions on filmmaking in the country, making possible the subsequent growth of the domestic film industry, and more broadly the end of military rule in 1987.

    Incidentally, the period 1955-1972 is widely regarded as the first "golden age" of South Korean cinema. Whether it was influential or not, The Housemaid is only the most celebrated film from that period, and even it wasn't widely recognized outside South Korea before 1998, when the Busan International Film Festival organized a retrospective of Kim Kiyoung's work.
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    Nanami: The Inferno of First Love (Hani Sususmu, 1968) mild

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  21. #3496
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    I read that Film Comment article when it first came out and it seemed a dubious argument, that somehow Kim Ki Duk wasn't well liked in Korea, that he was the "wrong" guy to kick off the Korean wave of the '00s in North America. Often people in other countries like certain movies more than their home countries. Showgirls was better liked in Europe than it was in America (until it was reappraised). Harmony Korine was better liked initially in Europe than America. Shyamalan's Lady in the Water made Cahiers du Cinéma's top ten list in 2006. Did they give a rat's ass that critics and audiences in America mostly disliked it? Nope. Portrait of a Lady on Fire is more beloved in the UK and North America than France.

    Film Comment used to write articles like that occasionally. Like "here's this foreign film that caught on in America. Let's shit on it and tell people they are wrong for liking it." They did the same thing with Amelie (which actually was massively popular in France as well).

    Anyway, my point is that saying Spring / Summer had little impact on the Korean '00s wave in North America (and even Western Europe) is about as stupid as saying The Death of Mr. Lazarescu had no impact on the Romanian '00s wave or The 400 Blows or Breathless had no impact on subsequent French New Wave, or the US distribution and Academy Honorary Award of Rashomon in 1951 had no impact on the following release of decades of Japanese films in North America.

    Or in popular music terminology that The Strokes' "Is This It" had no impact on the decades of garage rock revival bands in NYC and the UK simply because The White Stripes put out records first or Nirvana's "Nevermind" had no impact on the Seattle grunge explosion simply because Soundgarden and Green River made Seattle grunge records first.
    Last edited by Pop Trash; 12-13-2020 at 10:14 PM.
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  22. #3497
    Last Seen:
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    The Spectacular Spider-Man, S2 (G. Weisman/V. Cook, 2009)
    Red Shoes and the Seven Dwarfs (Hong S./Jang M./Uhm Y., 2019) ☆
    The Shield, S6 (S. Ryan, 2007) ☆
    Her Blue Sky (T. Nagai, 2019) ☆
    The Shield, S5 (S. Ryan, 2006) ☆
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    Batman vs. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (J. Castorena, 2019) ☆
    The Spectacular Spider-Man, S1 (G. Weisman/V. Cook, 2008)
    Twelve Forever, S1 (J. Vickerman, 2019) ☆

    First time ☆

  23. #3498
    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    I read that Film Comment article when it first came out and it seemed a dubious argument, that somehow Kim Ki Duk wasn't well liked in Korea, that he was the "wrong" guy to kick off the Korean wave of the '00s in North America. Often people in other countries like certain movies more than their home countries. Showgirls was better liked in Europe than it was in America (until it was reappraised). Harmony Korine was better liked initially in Europe than America. Shyamalan's Lady in the Water made Cahiers du Cinéma's top ten list in 2006. Did they give a rat's ass that critics and audiences in America mostly disliked it? Nope. Portrait of a Lady on Fire is more beloved in the UK and North America than France.

    Film Comment used to write articles like that occasionally. Like "here's this foreign film that caught on in America. Let's shit on it and tell people they are wrong for liking it." They did the same thing with Amelie (which actually was massively popular in France as well).
    It's clearly a problematic article insofar as Rayns can't actually prove the thing he wants to prove--namely, that the European festivals which selected Kim's films and the juries which gave them awards were responding less to their intrinsic quality than what Rayns terms their "sexual terrorism." Consequently, he repeatedly falls back on Pauline Kael's old trick of using rhetorical questions to soft-peddle claims that can't be conclusively proven. On Samaritan Girl winning the best director prize at Berlin, he writes, "This is a movie that contrives to glamourize, sanitize, sanctify, and deplore teenage prostitution all at the same time, while providing a long, lingeringly prurient gaze at its young heroines soaping each other in the bathhouse. Was the jury genuinely touched by this? Or merely intimidated by the sexual terrorism?" Although I agree with the first sentence (which doesn't even hint at just how absurd the film's melodramatic plot truly is), we can't know why the Berlin jury gave Kim an award for his direction. And in any case, it's hardly the only time that a festival jury has made an inexplicable choice (Abdellatif Kechiche is a Palme d'or winner, after all).

    That said, to stress what is perhaps a minor point, Rayns at no point describes Kim as being part of a "wave," much less having kicked one off. Nor is his argument that Kim's unpopularity in South Korea automatically makes him a bad filmmaker or the "wrong" director to represent South Korean cinema abroad, only that Kim could not have "successfully parlayed his limited talents into an international career" were it not for "the help of several European stooges." In other words, Rayns' article is less a critique of Kim's films per se than the international festival circuit which elevated his work above other, more talented South Korean filmmakers (including then-up-and-comer Bong Joonho).

    Anyway, my point is that saying Spring / Summer had little impact on the Korean '00s wave in North America (and even Western Europe) is about as stupid as saying The Death of Mr. Lazarescu had no impact on the Romanian '00s wave or The 400 Blows or Breathless had no impact on subsequent French New Wave, or the US distribution and Academy Honorary Award of Rashomon in 1951 had no impact on the following release of decades of Japanese films in North America.

    Or in popular music terminology that The Strokes' "Is This It" had no impact on the decades of garage rock revival bands in NYC and the UK simply because The White Stripes put out records first or Nirvana's "Nevermind" had no impact on the Seattle grunge explosion simply because Soundgarden and Green River made Seattle grunge records first.
    One filmmaker doesn't make a wave, so being first counts for very little. After all, Chabrol's Le Beau Serge appeared before either Les Quatre cents coups or À bout de souffle, yet no serious commentator has claimed that Chabrol had an "impact" on the first films of Truffaut and Godard. Nor could he have impacted Rivette's Paris nous appartient, since Rivette began filming his movie before Chabrol did, even though Rivette's wasn't finished and released until 1961. What made the Nouvelle vague a wave was precisely the fact that it was bigger than any of the filmmakers who got carried along by it.

    Given Kim's marginal status within the South Korean film industry, there seems to be no grounds whatsoever for claiming that his work had an impact on the domestic film industry at large. (I'm not even aware of any direct imitators.) The separate claim that the unexpected success of Spring, Summer... had some impact on the distribution of South Korean films in the US seems more plausible until one considers that Lee Chang-dong's Oasis opened in the US several weeks before Kim's film (although it didn't become a hit), whereas Bong's Memories of Murder went straight to video in North America. In short, there had already been a steady increase in the number of South Korean films being distributed in North America in the early 2000s, and although Kim's film was the first to become a significant hit, there's no evidence that its success led to any kind of feeding frenzy among US distributors. Indeed, Kim's own subsequent films received only spotty stateside distribution. The film was a one-off.
    Last edited by baby doll; 12-14-2020 at 12:22 AM.
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  24. #3499
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    Spring / Summer opened up in theaters in Los Angeles and NYC on April 2 2004 and had a platform release in the USA over the next several weeks through Sony Pictures Classics where it went on to make about $2.4 million USD. I was one of those people that saw it in first run at the theater. Oasis opened up May 7 2004 in NYC and likely Los Angeles. It likely didn't make much money (wikipedia says US$6.7 million but I call bullshit on that, it must be from rereleases if that figure is accurate at all) but it's hard to find a figure. I can't even find who distributed it initially. Oasis apparently finally opened up in Chicago around August 27, 2004 since Roger Ebert reviewed it that day, and generally newspaper reviews run the week a movie opens in a city. The lengthy platform from one major city to the next (May to late August) suggests it wasn't making much money in NYC and LA, otherwise they would have rushed the platform faster. I used to work at an arthouse in San Francisco. I know how these things work. In fact, the successful run of Spring / Summer likely helped Oasis into other cities finally, due to increased interest in Korean films, which is exactly my point of the impact of Spring / Summer.


    EDIT: IMDB says USA gross for Oasis is $10,304 which is much more believable. That's extremely low, even for a foreign film. Not many people outside of film critics saw Oasis during its initial USA run in 2004. The cumulative worldwide gross is $6,696,952 (again, according to IMDB) likely from Korean box office itself.
    Last edited by Pop Trash; 12-15-2020 at 06:53 PM.
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  25. #3500
    Quote Quoting Pop Trash (view post)
    Spring / Summer opened up in theaters in Los Angeles and NYC on April 2 2004 and had a platform release in the USA over the next several weeks through Sony Pictures Classics where it went on to make about $2.4 million USD. I was one of those people that saw it in first run at the theater. Oasis opened up May 7 2004 in NYC and likely Los Angeles. It likely didn't make much money (wikipedia says US$6.7 million but I call bullshit on that, it must be from rereleases if that figure is accurate at all) but it's hard to find a figure. I can't even find who distributed it initially. Oasis apparently finally opened up in Chicago around August 27, 2004 since Roger Ebert reviewed it that day, and generally newspaper reviews run the week a movie opens in a city. The lengthy platform from one major city to the next (May to late August) suggests it wasn't making much money in NYC and LA, otherwise they would have rushed the platform faster. I used to work at an arthouse in San Francisco. I know how these things work. In fact, the successful run of Spring / Summer likely helped Oasis into other cities finally, due to increased interest in Korean films, which is exactly my point of the impact of Spring / Summer.

    EDIT: IMDB says USA gross for Oasis is $10,304 which is much more believable. That's extremely low, even for a foreign film. Not many people outside of film critics saw Oasis during its initial USA run in 2004. The cumulative worldwide gross is $6,696,952 (again, according to IMDB) likely from Korean box office itself.
    I stand corrected on Osais' US release date being prior to Spring, Summer... (IMDb has the US release date for the latter as May 28, 2004, but Box Office Mojo says April 2), although I don't think this information raises any serious problems for my argument. Spring, Summer... opened a month earlier but a US distribution deal and release date for Oasis would've had to have been in place months before. It's conceivable that the success of Spring, Summer... boosted interest in another South Korean art house film in release at the same time, although judging by the poor box office showing for Lee's film stateside (BOM also has its domestic gross at ten thousand, compared with six million internationally), it would appear that its relative success didn't help Oasis all that much. Nor did it lead to a discernible increase in the number of South Korean films being distributed in the US. Indeed, there's little reason to assume that audiences who liked Kim's film would consequently be disposed to see other films from the same country irrespective of subject matter and style, especially when one factors in the significant differences between Kim and Lee's films (for starters, Oasis doesn't play into orientalist stereotypes of Asians). Again, there is no evidence to suggest that the success of Kim's film was anything but a one-off.
    Last edited by baby doll; 12-15-2020 at 10:52 PM.
    Just because...
    Saint Jack (Peter Bogdanovich, 1979) warm
    Whisky Galore! (Alexander Mackendrick, 1949) mild
    Nanami: The Inferno of First Love (Hani Sususmu, 1968) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Varieties of Religious Experience: A Study in Human Nature by William James


    The (New) World

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