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Thread: A Separation (Asghar Farhadi, 2011)

  1. #1
    something real elixir's Avatar
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    A Separation (Asghar Farhadi, 2011)



    You know, I would attach the trailer, but I'm honestly not a fan of it at all...it's really a film where you should go into it not knowing too much. Anyhow, this film deserves it's own thread. Here's part of what I wrote about it on another site, keeping it spoiler-free.

    I've come to see A Separation as a film of different vantage points. One might say "separate" point of views, which are forcibly put into contact with one another. Often seen through windows and encased in frames, characters are often cornered into making choices that reflect upon their moral beliefs and judicial values, among other things. The reason why the deft twists and turns the narrative takes (which I don't wish to spoil) somehow registers as organic instead of contrived is due to the detailed characterizations that explore the actions of all those involved, whether they be major players or minor parts in the story. Farhadi thus shows the different ways characters view the ever-worsening and increasingly destructive situations they are put in, with distinctions of class, gender, and religion driving much of the conflict, sometimes all at the same time. Where Farhadi's humanism shines is not simply in detailing the differences among the characters (though it's clear that everyone has their reasons), but in his depiction of the similarities inherent in them: they yearn for integrity but are capable of deception, and even if they ultimately wish for the good of others, their selfishness causes them to, sometimes willfully, inflict harm.

  2. #2
    Stunt Man TripZone's Avatar
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    so last year

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    Errant Girl Li Lili's Avatar
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    I, too, saw it last summer.
    I agree with you, plus very good acting aswell.

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    Cinematographer StanleyK's Avatar
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    I would have to agree that this is a very smartly written movie, which considers every point of view and makes for compelling drama. However, it had two major problems which kept me from loving it. One is the direction, which is at times so inspired (as elixir pointed out, in shooting its characters through windows and frames, or in the opening and closing sequences) but mostly so frustratingly point-and-shoot. The other is that the film feels pretty misogynistic. Long before the movie actually verbalizes it, I got the impression that Simin is ultimately to blame for everything that happens, and that feeling hangs around giving a bitter taste to its proceedings, and the revelation that Razieh kept secret (the way that's handled, in such an otherwise honest film, feels like a bit of a cheat) makes her out to be mostly culpable as well.

  5. #5
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    This is my favorite movie of 2011
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    sleepy soitgoes...'s Avatar
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    Quote Quoting StanleyK (view post)
    The other is that the film feels pretty misogynistic.
    This seems like a weird criticism considering that the film takes place in a society that is largely misogynistic.

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    A Bonerfied Classic Derek's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting soitgoes... (view post)
    This seems like a weird criticism considering that the film takes place in a society that is largely misogynistic.
    Which is precisely the reason she kept the secret in the first place...

    Also, I saw nothing "point-and-shoot" about the direction. I agree it's not often the highlight, but has a very effective use of the handheld, in terms of giving it a sense of immediacy, and isn't simply shot-countershot w/no camera movement, which is what I think of when I hear point-and-shoot.

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    Kung Fu Hippie Watashi's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Derek (view post)
    Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol (Bird, 2011) *½
    What the shit is this.
    Sure why not?

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    Cinematographer StanleyK's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting soitgoes...
    This seems like a weird criticism considering that the film takes place in a society that is largely misogynistic.
    It kinda felt like it was perpetrating that misogyny rather than making a point on it, mostly by making it so easy for the women to be blamed for everything.

    Quote Quoting Derek
    Also, I saw nothing "point-and-shoot" about the direction. I agree it's not often the highlight, but has a very effective use of the handheld, in terms of giving it a sense of immediacy, and isn't simply shot-countershot w/no camera movement, which is what I think of when I hear point-and-shoot.
    There are a whole lot of passages that are indeed just shot-reverse shot and no fun to look at.

    I do wish I liked this movie more than I did; it has enough greatness in it that I'm more than willing to eventually rewatch it and see if these complaints go away.

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    sleepy soitgoes...'s Avatar
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    Quote Quoting StanleyK (view post)
    It kinda felt like it was perpetrating that misogyny rather than making a point on it, mostly by making it so easy for the women to be blamed for everything.
    By showing life in a misogynistic culture as being misogynistic? It isn't perpetrating anything. Iranian culture is more oppressive towards women then men. Showing it any other way would be moving away from the realism Farhadi was striving for, and instead giving the viewer something closer to idealism. It isn't the fault of the filmmaker for depicting the faults of society accurately. Should I find fault with Killer of Sheep because life isn't fair to the black people living in Watts, and Barnett does nothing to show the viewer any different?

  11. #11
    A Bonerfied Classic Derek's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Watashi (view post)
    What the shit is this.
    I was thinking the same thing through much of the movie...

    Quote Quoting soitgoes... (view post)
    By showing life in a misogynistic culture as being misogynistic? It isn't perpetrating anything. Iranian culture is more oppressive towards women then men. Showing it any other way would be moving away from the realism Farhadi was striving for, and instead giving the viewer something closer to idealism. It isn't the fault of the filmmaker for depicting the faults of society accurately.
    Plus, it does such a fantastic job of examining all the moral perspectives and holding all the major characters as culpable to some degree. I can't fathom how anyone could watch this and feel its pinning the blame on the woman rather than shower her action and everything that follows as a reflection of a sexist, oppressive culture.

    Quote Quoting soitgoes...
    Should I find fault with Killer of Sheep because life isn't fair to the black people living in Watts, and Barnett does nothing to show the viewer any different?
    It's also an anti-sheep film as well. Not cool, Mr. Burnett, not cool.

  12. #12
    Kung Fu Hippie Watashi's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Derek (view post)
    I was thinking the same thing through much of that movie...
    Funny. I was thinking how awesome Brad Bird was.
    Sure why not?

    STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI (Rian Johnson) - 9
    STRONGER (David Gordon Green) - 6
    THE DISASTER ARTIST (James Franco) - 7
    THE FLORIDA PROJECT (Sean Baker) - 9
    LADY BIRD (Greta Gerwig) - 8


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  13. #13
    A Bonerfied Classic Derek's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Watashi (view post)
    Funny. I was thinking how awesome Brad Bird was.
    Right, but you do that while you're sifting through his garbage too.

  14. #14
    Kung Fu Hippie Watashi's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Derek (view post)
    Right, but you do that while you're sifting through his garbage too.
    I think this is a bannable offence.

    Raiders... you know what to do.
    Sure why not?

    STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI (Rian Johnson) - 9
    STRONGER (David Gordon Green) - 6
    THE DISASTER ARTIST (James Franco) - 7
    THE FLORIDA PROJECT (Sean Baker) - 9
    LADY BIRD (Greta Gerwig) - 8


    "Hitchcock is really bad at suspense."
    - Stay Puft

  15. #15
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    All these top tens and hardly any discussion at all? Bullocks.

    This is good, but I think the raves heightened my expectations. The energy and melodrama is fantastic for the first 70-80 minutes of the movie, but for me, it started to get a little tiresome and overdone after that.

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  16. #16
    Since 1929 Morris Schæffer's Avatar
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    I need to see this also. Because I feel I might like it, but above all, to know whether it's better than Belgian's nominee Bullhead.

    Can't wait to hear some Match cut opinions on that.
    [+] closer to next rating / [-] closer to previous rating

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  17. #17
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    I question the idea that this was "boringly directed." At least Stanley commented on the opening and closing shots, but this movie is mostly dialog-driven. There's some heavy blocking of the actors throughout the movie, with characters coming into rooms, leaving rooms, how they are framed within the room. This is definitely not point and shoot.

    Maybe not framed as well as something that Mike Nichols would do in his heavy dialog-drive/dramatic movies, but it's certainly no Apatow.

    Barbarian - ***
    Bones and All - ***
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  18. #18
    A Bonerfied Classic Derek's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    I question the idea that this was "boringly directed."
    Who said it was boringly directed? It's a very well-directed film.

  19. #19
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Derek (view post)
    Who said it was boringly directed? It's an very well-directed film.
    Stanley basically says just that.

    Barbarian - ***
    Bones and All - ***
    Tar - **


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  20. #20
    Guttenbergian Pop Trash's Avatar
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    I wasn't into this for the first half-hour or so, and thought I might be one of the few detractors on here, but once it went along, the whole thing just got more and more compelling. The screenplay is ridiculously tight and interesting. The two leads are great. I guess I could see why "point-and-shoot" direction might get lobbed at it, but I think there was a good use of space. Doors are used well and conversations are always held with a paranoia of who else might hear them.

    [
    ]
    Ratings on a 1-10 scale for your pleasure:

    Top Gun: Maverick - 8
    Top Gun - 7
    McCabe & Mrs. Miller - 8
    Crimes of the Future - 8
    Videodrome - 9
    Valley Girl - 8
    Summer of '42 - 7
    In the Line of Fire - 8
    Passenger 57 - 7
    Everything Everywhere All at Once - 6



  21. #21
    dissolved into molecules lovejuice's Avatar
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    Even though 2012 is still young, if this doesn't end up as my favorite movie of the yeal, I'll be much surprised.
    "Over analysis is like the oil of the Match-Cut machine." KK2.0

  22. #22
    Errant Girl Li Lili's Avatar
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    Any of you has seen his previous films ?
    I saw About Elly, his previous film (2009), with all the same cast, almost set in a same place during all the film, lots of dialog, again very well acted.
    I guess the ones who didn't like A Separation won't like About Elly.

  23. #23
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Li Lili (view post)
    Any of you has seen his previous films ?
    I saw About Elly, his previous film (2009), with all the same cast, almost set in a same place during all the film, lots of dialog, again very well acted.
    I guess the ones who didn't like A Separation won't like About Elly.
    No but added to queue!!

    edit: Errrr I guess not since Netflix doesn't have it.
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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
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    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  24. #24
    Taut, morally complex, superbly writted/acted blah blah blah. Came with perhaps unreasonably high expectations so I was left a little less affected than otherwise, but I'm sure a second viewing would benefit.

    The only real misstep I felt was the sleight-of-hand regarding [
    ] Any reason to keep it a last-act revelation? Seemed a little too 'gotcha'.

    StanleyK's claims of misogyny are bizarre.

  25. #25
    Errant Girl Li Lili's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    No but added to queue!!

    edit: Errrr I guess not since Netflix doesn't have it.
    argh! I think it got an award at the Berlinale, something like a Silver Bear, so maybe one day...

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